Need To Share.

I just need to share this. A couple days ago my 8 yr old came home very mad and upset. During 'carpet time' the kids all sit cross legged and when the teacher got up to get a book - a girl reached over and put her hand in a tickling fashion on my daughters private parts - she had pants on. She told her to stop and pushed her hand away. This girl and her family are neighbors down the street and we talk casually on occasion. Her father is a doctor and seem like nice people - one daughter in grade 5 and a younger brother, grade one who has very hard to handle with behavior problems( I don't know what's wrong).

I talked it over with my husband and 2 daughters about how to handle this - whether to go down and talk to her mother or contact the school. Since talking to the parents can be unpredictable, I decided to write a note for the teacher/principle. The principle called me and said she talked to my daughter and the other girl separately, then together. She said she made it clear that touching - even general touching should be avoided if the other clearly doesn't want it. She also made it clear that private parts are off limits.

The girl said it was an accident and I don't want to believe she was malicious but I do wonder. The principle also called her mother and I found this out because the mother knocked on my door yesterday. The first thing she said was - I wish you would have talked to me. So I'm glad the principle called the girls mother. I hope it was just an accident and this isn't an indication of a more serious problem at her home. I know from other parents who have had play dates at their house - that things get very chaotic with the younger boy's behavior. Anyway we had a nice conversation and she seemed very shocked and she was concerned for my daughter.

I just feel a little stressed out but I know I did the right thing. My daughter also told me last year, this same girl took another girls hand and pushed it against the girls private area. So I'm hoping now that her mother knows, this will open up the topic of how this is inappropriate.

Sorry that happened to your little girl, Lynn. It sounds to me that the other little girl is learning that behavior somewhere. Or mabye it's just curiosity? I don't know but it is disturbing. That a girl her age knows sexual related stuff like that. It's good the mother and school knows.

Thanks for the support Thunderbear.

I wanted to give an update on this situation. I realized the mother of the girl didn't come to my house with peaceful intentions - I think she was secretly mad that I told the school and would rather have solved this secretly. I reassured her this would blow over. There were only 2 other girls who knew about this - a girl who saw her do it and my daughter told her best friend because sometimes this girl goes to her house - my daughter was worried the girl might do this to her.

Since my daughter told another girl, they didn't like this and decided to exclude my daughter from her birthday party - punishment by alienation. I saw the mother at a cross country race and ask her about this - and she claims her daughter felt humiliated by my daughter telling this other girl. I just responded by saying I would ask my daughter. I wish I would have said - "if your daughter didn't do this in the 1st place maybe she wouldn't have to feel humiliated. I feel it's the typical 'blaming the victim' and sweeping it under the carpet. I feel so crappy about this situation now.

Oh, Lynn, did you really want your daughter at that girl's party? I always forget when "everyone else" is doing something to check to see if I really wanted to do that in the first place or just am attracted by the crowd. I think you handled the situation well and now know a bit more, from actual personal experience, about the girl, her mother, and family?

You know Perna - you're right I probably would have said no if she was invited. It's kind of the feeling "you don't want to go to a party, but you at least want to be invited and not excluded". It's a little childish way of thinking I suppose.

Since my daughters have been in school I heard of instances with other kids where one kid will use the 'old birthday party punishment' - "I'm not going to invite you to MY party" or "I'm not allowed to have YOU at my party".

You're right though, I most likely would have said "no". I was willing to let all this go. I'm thinking of requesting for next year to ask the school to make them in separate classes. They also have a grade 5 girl and she doesn't get along with other girls either so I don't want this to be thorn in our side for the coming 3 years. I'm not sure if I should request this or not.

Yes, please do. IMO there's no reason for your daughter to suffer under that relationship. From what I know, it never changes, and will only sour your daughter's school year(s.) You can always ask, and then if they turn you down and it doesn't clear, you can ask again, with proof. Let that other girl find a new mark. (They tend to cultivate certain ones and keep them.) Good wishes!

Thanks ((JD)) for the support. Well I'm extremely upset ATM. My daughter told me that at school today the girl told her "your mom's a liar" several times. This made me very upset and we all went to their house after dinner tonight. I figured if her mom can come to my house, then I can pay them a visit.

I told them what their daughter said and they completely changed the subject and started mud slinging. I never get in fights IRL only the occasional tiff here at PC but I feel I'm generally fair and respectful. They accuse ME of being histrionic - can you believe that?

My husband was involved in a lawsuit that was in the newspapers and they brought this up - which is extremely low and below the belt. I told her that I now realize she didn't come to my house to be a peacemaker - rather she wished I never told the school. They think I was stupid for getting the school involved. I said well why did you initially apologize if your daughter didn't do anything? Right is front of my daughter, they said she has zero credibility. I've never had a confrontation like this my whole life. I'm so mad and so upset. I ended up walking away because we were all talking very loudly. I'm so pissed.

Gosh Lynn, I'm so sorry all this had to happen. But since it did, it has to be for good reasons. You may never be privileged to know all the reasons, but please trust your gut and know that you did all the right things for all the right reasons.

You're a good Mom, obviously better than the lady down the street...the old hag.

Thanks Notz - you're a good friend and I appreciate all of you at this moment. I feel like crying. I always make of point of not having enemies and always leaving the door open ...not burning bridges but there's no chance of me ever talking to them again.

Sorry this is happening, Lynn.

This has to be difficult on a level concerning the children. I suppose you can make this a teachable moment with your girls, especially the one most involved. But to teach what? How adults can muck things up more so than their children? (not intended toward you - you know I think you're a wonderful Mother).

We teach our children to respect the elders. But what does the teacher teach when the elder doesn't deserve respect? And why not?

Not meaning to compound your problem, just thinking about the children.

Yes I agree this is a teachable moment ((Notz)). Usually I don't get involved with parents and I let the school handle issues. Most of the time, when parents get involved, they make it so much worse. Kids can have a big fight and the next day forget about it. But I have an enemy down the street now.

I admit I went there to make a point. The fact she came to my house when the school had already solved it between the girls was very nervy of her. At 1st I fell for it when she 1st came to my house, but now I realize, she was pissed for me tellng the school. So she came to my house, I decided to go to hers, after knowing her daughter told my daughter that I'm a liar. One thing I'm not, is a liar. My kids would never put down another childs parent - that's lesson #1. Obviously they don't teach their kids this.

Rule #2 - you don't tell a child they have 0 credibility.
Rule #3 - you don't hit below the belt and call me histrionic. If I was a highly reacting person I would have packed my bags a long time ago. Everyone who knows me, realizes I have never ending patience and compassion.
Rule #4 - you don't bash my childrens father over a law suit that happened 9 damn years ago, which has nothing to do with this issues. Yes I have issues with my husband but I won't tolerate anyone bashing him in front of my children.
Rule#5 -Don't exclude and alienate as a punishment. I reassured her when she came to my house that we could all go on as normal, but they later retaliated with verbally telling my daughter "I'm not allowed to have you at my party".

They totally ignored what I came there for and instead engaged in mud slinging mudd and hitting below the belt. I maintained my dignity and didn't hit below the belt. They claim they would never call the school if someone touched their daughter in their private parts. They think I over reacted.

When I went to their house last night - I knew their was no hope in making peace and I went there to let them know I didn't appreciate their daughter talking about me. I've never been in a fight like this before. I knew that going to their house would make it worse because it had already reached that toxic point last week.

Thanks for letting me rant and I'm not mad at you Notz and you're right - when parents get involved face to face, it's rarely pretty. It's not often I get pissed but I still fuming over this. I'm expecting a call from the principle and I'm going to let her know it's reached the toxic point and for the next coming yrs to avoid putting them in the same class.

My youngest has many friends and rarely has trouble with social issues. She navigates very well socially so I'm hoping that being in different classes will help a bit. Their older daughter has been in all kinds of drama.

I just got off the phone with the principle of my daughters school and explained what has happened since she initially dealt with the problem. I told her that for the next years - I don't want them in the same class. Since field trips involve parents volunteering and assigning a certain number of kids to each parent - I don't want my daughter to ever be paired up with her parents.

On Friday both our kids will be running a cross country race and she'll most likely be there. She better not try to talk to me. Grrrrr

Both our kids were at the cross country race - usually we would talk to each other but we both ignored each other. It was uncomfortable but I absolutely don't want to ever talk to her again. The girls also ignored each other.

hi lynn i think you handled this very well! often times it helps to alert the school rather than privately approaching another parent. it sounds like the school also did a great job so i hope this helps you to know this from us. clearly your daughter is on spot of what to do. you have educated her well.
as for the other child, it could be innocent at that age but erring on the side of caution was definitely the way to go.

just read your updates...no need to try to make peace with this family as you know already now. good to separate the children as much as possible. the less said out loud at home the better-little pitchers have big ears-your daughter can put this behind her faster if she doesn't hear it rehearsed, imho and from experience. it gets very confusing for children to deal long term with things like this.
hopefully she can just get along with being a little girl now.

Thanks ((madisgram)) - it feels good to know I'm supported here. When this initially came up and the principle spoke to the girls - it seemed this was solved and I considered this a done deal. When the mother came to my house - I went over board to be nice to her. I told her I didn't want to assume it was malicious and I assured her from our end, we would forget about this. Then I realized she was actually pissed and didn't think I should have called the school.

A couple times I was 2nd guessing myself, maybe I should not have called the school - but then I thought about what this would teach my daughter. We tell our kids to tell us if anyone touches them and if I stayed quiet and did nothing - what would that tell her? If this was left to the school, this would be over with now. I'll take your advice and try not to talk about this or the fact I extremely dislike the parents in front of my daughter. Thanks again.

Lynn-
I'm so sorry this has happened. I think it was best that you contacted the school. If they didn't know, then they can't do anything to protect your daughter while she is there. They also wouldn't have a reason to keep them in different classes next year. Good job standing up for your daughter! She needs you in her corner. You are a wonderful mother.

Thank you ((googley)) for saying this. Those other parents almost made me doubt myself, so it helps to hear this. I told the school that I don't know if this was an accident or done deliberately - I just want to make sure the school knows and it doesn't happen again. This wasn't a big deal until they(the parents) got involved with me personally. Even the 1st time she came to my house, I was very kind and reassured her, this would be forgotten.

It sounds to me as though the other girl may be caught in the middle of a situation created by her parents. She almost has to side with them; otherwise she would have to see them as in the wrong -- and therefore not someone she can depend on. And as you have found out, changing them is probably not something anyone can do in any short period of time!

Thanks Pachy and I agree. When the principle 1st talked to the girls - the other girl said sorry and the principle asked, if they had anything to say. So my daughter said I just want to make sure this doesn't happen again. When the principle called to tell me this -I considered this solved.

It's not like I was accusing the child of being evil or malicious. It happens with kids sometimes, whether by accident or for other reasons. I was more upset by what happened after the incident.

Lynn,
This concerns me greatly that the girl is showing this behavore, When I was little I showed vilont behavore mimicing my father, and I know a friend who had the same problem and even another who had the same sextully actions. All of these thigs I did and my friends where little, in general we where all goo kids and where very sucessfull. But a lot of the things where not what normal children do. Now I wish someone would have confronted the school. Called the school and told them of my baharvore "problems" then maybe they would have found out about my home life. I am glad you told the school because I think personally that there is something going on in the home. I think you should submit your suspitions with the school but know and let the school know you could easly be wrong. also do not let your child know that you dislike the parents because just beause there is something going on doesnt mean that there is something wrong with the gril or tha tshe is just having a hard time. I hope it gets better for you!

I wish you well,
~Jenny

((Lillyleaf)) - thank you for your post. It makes me feel along with all the other posts, that I did the correct thing. Thank you also for your honesty in saying you also did inappropriate things due to your own abuse - I'm so sorry you suffered. I'm not going to discuss this further with the principle since she knows this happened. I really don't know if this was a simple slip of the hand or whether it's a sign as you mentioned - I pray it's not. This is why I refused to be quiet - if more people talked about these things, there wouldn't be all this secrecy.

The scary thing is, her father is a doctor and the way he was so extremely hateful and defensive to me, makes me wonder if he's not mad I revealed a secret. I always got this phoney impression of them both, but he looked down right evil the day I went to their house.

They also have a boy in grade one who has something seriously wrong - his behavior is violent and unpredictable. His eyes constantly shake. When he was 2-3 yrs. old they used to attend the girls soccer games. He was always trying to run on the field, so his mother in a somewhat playing fashion - would grab him and hang him upside down. This would happen sometimes 10 times. I really believe this caused some kind of brain damage or inner ear imbalance.

Before this happened we were all standing in the field and the oldest had a misplaced bone in her foot with a plastic boot cast. The boy took his heel and stomped on her foot twice, then spit directly in her face. I think I'm getting off topic here.

I still resent the way they tried to shame me and say I over reacted. I have every right to acknowledge my child was inappropriately touched.

(((Lynn))) I'm so sorry that you all had to go through this.

The world is a complicated place these days. In my day this behavior would have been called playing doctor. These days we worry whether or not the girl has been sexually abused.

I think you did absolutely the right thing contacting the school. As parents I think we are too close to the situation to make an objective judgement. The school could also be privy to information you do not have and this could have been information they needed to convince them that something needed to be done. In any event they are the professionals and this happened on school property.

As to the invitation to the party, other than the obvious, they may have been trying to avoid an awkward situation. Assuming the best case senerio (girl discovered that touching herself felt good and has yet to learn boundaries) inviting her to a party could have been viewed as them dismissing it entirely. More likely they would rather pretend that this whole thing never happened; you and your family are a reminder of something that embarrassed them and they are reacting in a very human fashion, lashing out.

We do very stupid things as humans, it is so much easier to see the fault in others and ignore our own. I feel sorry for them. Instead of taking a very common and natural experience, using it to teach their daughter boundaries, and moving on. They've decided to take the path of least resistance and taught their daughter a very different lesson.

I think you should put in your report your thought to socail serveices... know that a lot of the time schools stink at helping out kids sometimes.... I know that sometimes I wish that someone would have just found out and taken me away. There are many times I know I showed signs of abuse but still nothing ever happened to me.