Anyone Else Familiar with Sam Vaknin?

I've listened to him on youtube a few times. I find him to be very interesting. He proclaims himself a full-blow narcissist, but also writes books and produces youtube videos designed to help narcissists heal.

I just came across this book he has written. Malignant Self Love

Here's an interview he did about the book..

wow. It's kinda scary how he suggests that psychopaths and narcissists are on the same spectrum.

Sam Vaknin is a genius marketer and business man. I'll give him that. Quite frankly he gives me a headache though and makes mountains out of molehills with his BSing and over pathologizing of NPD.

Sam has become an Internet expert by telling the victims of narcissists what they like to hear.

LOL! No hes not a genius anything. Hes a genius businessman like Willy Nelson is a genius tax evader. Sam's books are the equivalent of Willies Taco Bell commercials from back in the day. Broke people got's to scramble.

Amazing how many people are so eager to adulate a narcissist as a "genius" for getting by.

Oh settle down. I didn't mean he was a genius in the literal sense.

I have not read his literature so I couldn't tell you how ridiculous they are.

However he's God on almost every NPD forum so he's doing something right.

But you dont mean God in a literal sense, right?

I just came became aware of him. A lot of what he says makes sense to me. It seems many therapists don't like treating narcissists, and some doubt it's even possible... most of the information I've found out there is about how to protect yourself from the narcissist in your life.
Vaknin is one of the few trying to give hope to those suffering from the disorder. Maybe I'll feel differently if I find out more about him. But, that's my take based on what I know now.

That's a fact. Then there's the issue of therapists being too incompetent to know what to do with an NPD client anyway...

I don't think therapists really like treating PD's in general to be honest.

They're probably annoying or scary.

Also a fact.

Yeah when antisocial pd was in my differential diagnosis I had therapists that if they could they probably would pick me up and physically push me out of their offices

one flat out told me that she didn't want to work with me after one session

That's probably the worst one you can have for treatment

I listened to an episode of This American Life a while back. A younger man (18-20) got into kiddy porn on the internet and was trying to stop. He talked about his experiences with different counselors. He never hurt anyone, and never touched anyone.. but, he found it very difficult to find anyone to help him.
He ended up starting an internet site for others who wanted to stop. The group he formed has to be very careful that they don't allow any criminals to get involved with their group.

It's kinda sad. I thought therapists were trained to have compassion.

The longer I live, the more I wonder if anyone really has much control over what he does. There is even the idea among some that we really have no free will. Think about it. Does anyone choose their parents? Where their parents live? The church their parents decide to attend, the friends their parents make (therefore, your friends), the school they attend? Now think about how much influence just those factors have had on your life. Throw in genetics, and sometimes it seems we were just given our personality and problems. No one chooses their personality, or it's disorders.

On top of that...
There have even been studies that show that our unconscious mind makes decisions before we are even aware. It's a very interesting study. And, in some ways, it gets me off the hook, so to speak. There is very strong evidence that free will in humans is an illusion. Even though, obviously, if someone commits a crime, he needs to be punished.

You'll be fascinated.

Yes, there's all that. And my parents are a big factor to why I am. They are a huge factor. But it would be irresponsible for me to take no blame for my personality disorder and it would be very PD thinking to blame the world for my problems. That's what a lot of people with personality disorders do, they blame the entire world for their problems. They try to rationalize their behavior with this view that the world is out to get them. My old psychologist told me this and she told me it was refreshing to see someone so blunt and not blaming the world for every little thing. I don't have the time to wallow in self-pitying behavior.

I blame where it's appropriate. Obviously it's somethings fault I have no empathy/remorse. If it be genetics or no one teaching me. Either is plausible.

I realize there are problems in my behavior and to be quite frank I do some of them because I don't give a **** about other people. And to be honest there are some parts of me I don't want to change. I see no reason to.

Taking ownership of your own behaviors and admitting you like some of them is a good step in my opinion versus well you know maybe I wouldn't be like this if mommy didn't do yadadada.

Yeah, I've been rejected without even having met the therapist in question.

It's kind of a bind... or a no-win situation. I'm an atheist and a materialist (I think this material world is all there is, no spirits, etc), and that leads to a very deterministic mindset. All there is, is cause and effect. You have a crappy childhood, it causes NPD or NPD traits.

But, on the other hand, if I don't learn to control myself, I could make things very difficult and painful for myself. That motivates me to change. And, it is very important to think about your childhood traumas... and it is possible to do so, and to still take responsibility for who you are today.

To the outside Sam Vaknin is the poster child of NPD. To the ones who also share his symptoms tend to dislike him very much and call many of his writings out as BS. Typical narcissists will always shot down someone whose doing it better as we are programmed to believe we are the best. Truth is he is making a killing in both profits and feeding his narcissistic ways by his endeavors and when it comes down to it he deserves credit from this standpoint. Take this forum for instance, if we all were to sit in a room and go through each post we could very easily put a book together that would gain attention in the ways that Sam does. A single narc is interesting, a group of narcs would be mind blowing!!! Love him or hate him he will continue to build his ego way above most of us ever will. Disagree all you want but you know it's true. Be as successful as you want but to be successful by exploiting your craziness and making the outside buy into every word you write???? Sounds pretty genius to me!!! Next time any of you go see your t mention him to them and they will all know exactly who he is. His supply will never run out.

I'm just happy there is someone out there speaking out in defense (or at least not attacking) narcissists. I came across one T online who basically said "there is nothing good in NPD's... they are so damaged and pathetic that they don't even understand the problems they cause".

Someone needs to counter that attitude. Vaknin is better than nothing.

(Do you know something that's really funny? I frequently use "that" instead of "who" when referring to something that someone did. I even depersonalize and make people into objects in my writing. I'm always correcting errors like that in my writing.)

One again the quote I found best suited for our kind;
NPD:
The one disorder where everyone else but the person who suffers with gets help.

Who said that?

It's truly amazing. When you read about the childhood's of those of us who suffer from the disorder, I wonder how therapists and the mental health community could be so cruel. Do they think we chose our childhoods? our parents? the abuses and crimes that were committed against us?

They want to hold us accountable for our actions?..... how are those who helped create us being held accountable for their actions? God DAMN that pisses me off.

I think the proper thing to do when someone is diagnosed as being NPD, is to start looking for the criminals in their childhood that need to be prosecuted for their crimes. Then let us victims attend the trials.. that would be very therapeutic for me.

And do I still need to be held accountable for my actions? Yes, I do.

I still feel good about the day I called the police dept. in the town where I grew up and explained how I was molested as a child. They treated me with respect and helped me to try and figure out who it might have been. Nothing ever became of it... but, it was a step in the right direction.

I just wrote a long post and somehow it got deleted!!!!
Forgiveness can equate to giving up
Giving up can equate to releasing the negative people in your life blood or no blood
Truth is the people who made us what we are don't know any better. In fact they more than likely see this as nothing wrong. They did the best they could!!! Whatever they want to believe it will never be up to us to show them any different as they cannot accept that.
When I found out I did everything possible to hurt my mother. Each time doing so it only made it worse for me. She is a master of no emotions, I laugh when all the sudden she tries to tell me she loves me. You see both my parents are very sick now. Age is a big factor on top of deteriorating health. I distance myself because this is what I need. I have to accept what it is, accept what is done but I never have to accept invites or conversations. Great lyrics form a song,"I had to learn what I've got, and what I'm not, and who I am" This is what I am working on. I am lucky to have a wife who see's me and doesn't run away. This will never be an easy process. I can write for hours and hours based on my insights from the time of finding out my label to now. About my childhood and how I was chosen to be the one to grow up with who and where I did. Maybe in the book....

Sure... My parents can be forgiven. They didn't commit any crimes.

I'm talking about the actual crimes that were committed. The actual prosecutable crimes. The man who molested me should have been prosecuted for his crime. He did not "do the best he could"... he committed a crime. And it would have been very therapeutic for me to attend the trial and to be able to testify against him.

Well... actually, now that I think about it... My dad could have been prosecuted for domestic abuse. (He also hit me once in a moment of anger, when I was about 18.) Would that have made my life any better? I don't know... maybe, if he had been forced to get help back when he first (when I was very young.. probably 4 or 5, maybe even earlier) started hitting my mom..

As it was... my dad got the idea that even the church understood why he would get so angry that he would feel the need to hit someone. The leadership in the church knew what was going on, and decided to deal with it in the way they thought was right. They told my mom that she should just forgive him, and they told my dad, that he should confess and ask God to forgive... at least that is my perspective, after piecing together memories and attitudes. But, my dad never apologized and instead just explained why he reacted in violence.

As far as I'm concerned... there is no justification for hitting anyone... ever... and some of it wasn't just hitting... I remember my dad losing control and beating my mom at least once. Beating someone is not "doing the best you can"... when you beat someone you have committed a crime. and I doubt that what I witnessed was the only time it happened. Domestic violence is not pretty... I know, my dad is an offender.

And again... I've met well-meaning people that have literally said to me "I know you think your dad is terrible... but, he didn't really commit domestic violence..." this is before they even knew much about me, or my childhood, or even asked me why I thought my dad was terrible. I'm telling you... some people are idiots..

One of the things that is frustrating to me is that I've even tried to tell counselors how bad my parents were.. They basically tried to shut me down, like they didn't believe me. I suppose those counselors could be forgiven, because they did the best they could.

Taking my words a little too literal. Best I can is meant in their own eyes, not meant that I believe they truly did the best they could. You see your response was one as a "N". You went right to defense mode instead of taking a minute and reading through again. Part of becoming better is letting down our guards. Until this happens your ways will not change. Not attacking just pointing out