[elliemay]

I frequently get scathing calls from my mom about various things that I do wrong, how I've hurt her, how insensitive I am, what a horrible person I am, you know the drill.... These calls are particularly frequent when my mother is manic.

Trust me when I say that none of them have basis in reality and are more reflective of her own cognitive distortions than anything I have done/said. I usually do not entertain her craziness at all, point out her distortion, simply hang up and disengage completely. I've tolerated her, understood her and protected myself from her for years. I understand the "mistakes" during mania, but enough is enough.

I don't know what happened last night, either I was just fed up, or after months of fishing she finally found something that would get a reaction out of me, but we definately engaged. It didn't start well, it didn't progress well and it certainly didn't end well. I guess I just got tired of being the rational one and met her blow for blow. Oddly, I slept like a baby.

This morning she called (insanely early) to apologize, saying that she was up all night worrying about our argument and that she was wrong and was sorry, but that it took her awhile to process my behaviour. She also said that the past was the past and that she felt much better this morning.

I accepted her apology, but only in the spirit that it was given.

She'll do it again, she'll come at me again. It's the same crap over and over and over again. She may or may not apologize, but I can promise you she will not change.

No matter what she does, at this point, it's just not enough.

How unfortunate for both of you.

[lonegael]

on the one hand, I agree with Byz, but on the other hand, I havee a mother who does the smae thing and doesn'thave mania to blame it on. She's gotten better , so I am suspecting it is some of the medications that have been given her for pain and migraines that is contributing, but nonetheless, it was hurtful and brough out the worst in me as well. I just started hanging up when she started. "Sorry mom, gotta go, Love ya', click!"
Otherwise I say things that make it worse and gives her a chance to blame me yet more.
It was the only way to save my shakey sanity and questionable self esteem.
I hope that at some point you find a bit of peace in your self and find a way to manange your mother's behavior towards you that can last in the long run and not end up affecting you negatively. You are right. without help, she is not going to change, and no, sometimes apologies are not enouh. She can't demand forgiveness from you, only ask it.

[elliemay]

I usually maintain a good relationship with my mother. I've learned that the adage "good fences make good neighbors" to be especially true in this case.

It's just hard when there appears to be an unrelenting assault. I am usually the target as, well, I'm the daughter and for some reason that seems to provoke her.

I realized awhile ago that she will never see me as independent from her, as having a life of my own with my own independent desires that are separate and apart from hers. She views everything I do in relation to her. That realization was very freeing to me, but I'm not perfect.
If it's not all about her, but remotely about me, that definately seems to provoke an attack.

I go out of town for my job, I'm leaving her.
I want to see my old friends during the holidays, I'm doing it out of spite for her.
I have a deadline to meet, I'm ignoring her.
I have a sick pet, my priorities are wrong.
I want to see my nieces and nephews, I'm disloyal and doing it to hurt her. No joke and these are her grandchildren.
I give money to charity, she needs the money.
I go to therapy, how could I hate her so much.

What's worse is the "You're causing me to do/feel/act this way". It's abusive and controlling.

It's grating and it wears me down - that bottomless pit of her self-centeredness.

The strain of managing this gets to be a bit much and I guess I'm venting. Right now I am in no place to forgive and forget. Right now I'm tired and angry. Right now I'm fed up.

Yeah, it is too bad for both of us.

Will I be able to resolve this in my head? Sure, she's ill and it's the illness talking, it's the default setting and there is no reset button .

It's just hard to keep my head above water sometimes....

[pachyderm]

Ellie, it sounds as though you are very, very important in your mother's eyes. That should be very impressive to you...

[purple_fins]

It sucks to have a narcisstic parent. I can so relate.

Maybe you've already done this... but with my mom... I have an answering machine and if she sounds agitated, I don't pick up the phone.
I've even told her once "mom, I'm not going there with you. I am willing and would love to talk to you when you can be kind".... then I hung up.

through therapy I've learned to NOT ALLOW myself to get caught up in my mother's drama and self-pity. We do have control in many ways. We can teach people how to treat us and what we will tolerate-- it may take a long while but people are trainable.

I've decided if it means not talking to my mother for 6 months then that's what it means. I can still send her birthday gifts, Christmas gifts and Mother's day greetings but -- I don't have to engage myself into her abusing me.....

I just hate that you-- a loving daughter-- are not being respected the way you so deserve. I imagine your mother will do it again........ that really sucks.....

fins

[lonegael]

Thanks, purple fins, you said clearly and succinctly what i was rambling on about. That's exactly what I was trying to say!

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Ellie, it sounds as though you are very, very important in your mother's eyes. That should be very impressive to you...

Impressive is one word, I can think of few others.. Let's see they rhyme with scathological, smirational, fleedy and melfish.

On the other hand, some other words would be trunderstandable, wrad, and flexacerbated rye billness.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

It sucks to have a narcisstic parent. I can so relate.

Maybe you've already done this... but with my mom... I have an answering machine and if she sounds agitated, I don't pick up the phone.
I've even told her once "mom, I'm not going there with you. I am willing and would love to talk to you when you can be kind".... then I hung up.

through therapy I've learned to NOT ALLOW myself to get caught up in my mother's drama and self-pity. We do have control in many ways. We can teach people how to treat us and what we will tolerate-- it may take a long while but people are trainable.

I've decided if it means not talking to my mother for 6 months then that's what it means. I can still send her birthday gifts, Christmas gifts and Mother's day greetings but -- I don't have to engage myself into her abusing me.....

I just hate that you-- a loving daughter-- are not being respected the way you so deserve. I imagine your mother will do it again........ that really sucks.....

fins

Yeah, I'm a well-therapized soul myself. 8 years and counting. I figure every year cancels out 2 of living with her, so hopefully I'm about done . Don't know though, those early childhood years, they pack a wallop don't they?

But I swear, sometimes it feels like that woman is positively fishing for things that push my buttons. Maybe she is....

I'm really good actually at disengaging, and just letting the rant dissapate on its own. It's just easier on us both (okay me, I don't think she gets it) and to be frank, the apology is more than I've gotten in the past when we've clashed. At least I've trained her that far.

However, it's like she pulled out the manual, flipped to the section on "what to do if someone responds angrily to my rants" and said "let's see.... it says here that one should apologize if one makes another angry (see section on hurt). For instructions on how to apologize, please turn to section 4.8.1 entitled Apologies for "mistakes".

Maybe one day, if this happens again, it will be a sincere apology, which I can assure you, would be more than enough from her.

Hopefully though, I will have learned a valuable lesson here - there is NO GOOD REASON to engage - and it will never happen again.

One day maybe i'll be perfect and maintain perfect boundaries. All I know is that I'm human and sometimes just get fed up with dealing with it.

[purple_fins]

Yes those early childhood years sure do pack a wallop! I so agree!! I'm sorry that you can relate.

and I imagine like you said - your mother IS trying to push your buttons-- that's how such people draw others into their drama.... it works pretty good too!

Maybe your mom is a bit less narcissistic than mine-- I quit having the expectation of my mother apologizing- it's like hoping to live on Mars next year-- it's NOT going to happen(not sincerely anyway) and so I've allowed/taught myself to NOT have that expectation anymore.

No expectation= No disappointment

I believe my mother truly isn't able to be sincerely sorry for anything.

It sounds like you are still hoping for a sincere apology. I wish if that's what you're hoping for, it will happen for you.

I won't allow myself to be hurt in that way anymore-- in my case.
It's quite the "free" feeling and such a release of that "invisible weight"(if you know what I mean) when one is done expecting compassion from an abusive adult. (to realize that I can be OK without it!)

"One day maybe i'll be perfect and maintain perfect boundaries. All I know is that I'm human and sometimes just get fed up with dealing with it "

I don't believe anyone has to be perfect or that anyone can be. I think having insight is wonderful and I believe that is what you have.

and about getting fed up with dealing with it-- yes I can surely understand that! That's why the phone message machine to screen calls can come in great use and also protecting oneself when needed.

I'm sure you are a great person that has been through a lot--I hope you can show your mom how great people need/should be treated.
Even if she doesn't comply, she may get the message that -- "that bird don't fly here anymore"

all the best to you

fins