Why bother with it?

What is the point in trying to function better in society, if society is part of the problem? I mean I have some psychological issues, but it seems like people assign you the goal of learning to function in society if you happen to be mentally ill....otherwise I guess there are other ways to try and get by.

But anyways if society is part of what depresses me, traumatizes me and induces anxiety...why then should I want to spend more time in it, and attempt to become well adjusted? I mean I guess I am just having a difficult time with this. I mean what's the point of living life if its all about learning how to be unhappy over-all with a smile on your face and the ability to live in a bubble of ignorant bliss?

I just don't understand, and I posted it here because I don't think it has to do with a specific mental disorder.

First, there's no such thing as "society". We can only communicate and deal with people one-on-one and if the people you actually have the opportunity to interact with during the day have difficulties interacting with you or you with them, that's where all our problems come from?

No one else is in charge of us, they all have to help themselves; it's not the things outside ourselves that are causing us to be anxious and stressed but our own thoughts, feelings and actions about those people and things.

To me, life is about learning what's mine and what's someone else's and getting my stuff to help me live my life the way I would like, as much as possible.

Well I don't see how there is no society...there is and I am effected by it. I mean its not as simple as difficulties interacting with people one on one....its more feeling totally separate from people in general and well alienated from society.

Also I realize sometimes its my thoughts causing anxiety and stress. But that is not to say the outside world does not effect me and also induce stress, anxiety and even depressed feelings. I mean this is just what i am talking about it seems assumed that the mentally ill individual is always in the wrong in what they feel. I mean its like if I say society is flawed the general response would be 'no you're just mentally ill so you feel like it is.'

I guess I just don't see how to enjoy life at all within the confines of society...I mean that isn't what I want in life though I don't really know what I want anyways.

Well, part of the reason to get involved with society despite it's flaws is that people really have no choice. Everyone has needs - food, clothing, housing, etc. Thus they need jobs for money so they can meet these basic needs. I agree that society is screwed up but for your own sake you have to find a place for yourself in it.

That brings me to my next point. Society as a whole might be difficult for you to handle, but most people can find certain groups or subsets of society which they can enjoy and be around. Certain personality types are attracted to certain types of jobs, for instance, and when they get into those jobs they find like minded individuals. It can also apply to hobbies, parts of the world to live in, etc.

In the end we all have to find a way to exist in this world, but if you can find a place to belong it becomes much easier.

Or you could try to change society, but I find that many people with mental illness have difficulty with that. They're too busy trying to deal with day-to-day life to handle the large societal problems. It's probably why there's so little good coverage and so much politics & money running mental health care.

What good does it do me if it guarantees endless misery? I mean the main reason I am not in college right now and don't have a job is mostly my psychological issues interfereing. But I have to admit even if I could work regular job what then is the point? feed the machine because I have to, to survive? I mean there is no place for me in it.....and I am not exactly sure I would want it even if there was.

Well yeah it is hard to handle..and of course there are some people I can get along with ok, but I wouldn't say it's people who are really too thrilled about this society either. I mean most people I know have been screwed by the system one way or another and do not get on too well with society in general.

Well at least the world is bigger than society, so I guess it is still possible to find a way to exist in this world...maybe then the trouble is, is it worth it but yeah there is probably a better chance of there being a place for me in the world than in society if that makes any sense. I mean there are things I like about the world I just have an issue with how society is set up.

Yeah, I think society could use a change...not sure what I could really do to initiate anything like that though. But I certainly am open minded to be a part of any attempts of change provided its nothing bad like mass murder.

Well, survival is the main reason we enter into society. True, you are 'feeding the machine,' but if you're savvy enough you're also using it to get what you want. And survival should not be an end unto itself. It's why you enter, but it's not why you stay. You stay to find a way to thrive, and to fight what you don't like about it. As you gain control over your own life, you find that you have more power to do something about the parts you dislike.

It sounds like the people you've found aren't too thrilled about society, so you fit in with them. I know a lot of people like this. They might take jobs that others find distasteful or wild. Tattoo designers, for example. Things that reflect rebellion. That counterculture is also part of society and you might find a place for yourself in counterculture. Or foreign lands.

Really, we need more people to fight against the negative aspects of our society. But if you can't even get to a place where you can support yourself, it's very hard to instigate that change. If you do get into it, do it to better yourself and then in the end to make a difference. You are right that for many people there is no point. But that doesn't have to be the case. We choose what we wish to make of our lives. It's just too bad we couldn't decide the world we were born into. But then again, if we were born into a perfect world, then there would be nothing left to accomplish. I think every person needs goals.

It seems like my choices are pretty limited....

-find a way to keep up with the demands of society and cope with the misery it causes in the hopes that maybe someday I will be able to do something else with money I save.
-or find some way to barely scrape by till death, while still needing to cope with the misery.
-Or if I could change society but if that happens i doubt I will be the one who created the change.

We, collectively create societies to serve our interests. Does society really make that many demands? Besides not breaking its laws and doing your best to pay your own way through life? I wonder. Maybe society doesn't make any demands on you. You could live or die and the society as a whole wouldn't notice you unless you caused harm in the process. The only part of society that really makes any personal demands on you are those people who love you and depend on you, who have a relationship with you. Otherwise there are social norms that may or not reflect you but are there because they reflect the majority. Being a minority, no matter the conditions can cause resentments and anger. They can also cause one to feel unique and special and enlightened and thusly, a change agent.

You can be rich and miserable and poor and miserable. Its how we manage the misery. You are right about that. But its not always miserable. Somedays we do see the sun shine and we do find separation from misery.

I believe we are all change agents. I can walk out my door. Wait for someone to walk by. Offer them a smile and change their world. Its true. Someone smiled at me once on my way to call it a life at the river. That person will never know what their smile did for me and the people who love me that day.

The thing with giving up, blaming and opting out.... they don't work. Something inside of our humanness wants back in. We are not made to be alone. I wish we were. I think life would be a lot easier if I didn't keep coming back to a genuine honest need for human interaction.

We all have something unique to bring to the mix of society. We are society. We are the ingredients.

ya know the other day after something happened at my work and i got into the down wards thinking pattern that -- the world is evil- you can try all the hard that you can, you can do what you do and there is always someone waiting around the corner to **** with you or up or **** you over.... people use, abuse, and go on with a care... and who gets hurt-- everyone.

I reminded my self, and I am sorry if this is selfish to some-- but it does comes down to me I have to live with me so ask myself some questions-- do I try? am I doing what I need for me?, am I trying to make "MY WORLD" no matter how little it is, ok? can I look at myself in the mirror - this may not be "totally liking me, but is being able to live with me.

--I Remind myself that not all is evil-- remind myself that not all is good and don't expect it to-- remind myself that not everyone is going to get along, like me, me like them, and some just lack respect of common humanity-- and those to which are not really my problem- I personally do have to learn to some how let go, roll off and continue (i.e. cope with). To those which are my problems, i need to work on for me- NO one else.

Ya know I wonder at times, is it really worth taking a life time of having so much pain that ranges from different things for me-- or could I opt out (as one friend of mine did about 3 years ago) which then I am just giving others pain to even if I may not want to accept that. Yeah society as a whole does *NOT care that he is gone, but I do.

--- I have to remember I have had joy at some points of my life as well, some will return if I allow them to-- Some times it is good to take a look in the memory bank and realize that. Point of views and not looking so down can help a lot- it can be hard at times, and no I am not saying this just "clicks for me" all the time- some times it can drag me down for a while more than a day, week, months; other times I am quicker to get back up from it.

Be well- Hope better days are your way.

Hellion, you posed some really good questions (thoughtful), and PC posters, you provided some really good responses (thoughtful)!

I hope I can add something even a teeny bit helpful or useful here...

I had a fabulous Literature professor, who rode us like crazy and challenged the heck out of us. I have never worked so hard for an A in my entire life. And I loved every second of it.
Throughout the years (I had him for several courses), he drilled into us ever so subtly the following:

"If a man loses pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured, or far away. "
(Henry David Thoreau)

(I actually forgot about that until just this second. This professor made such an impact on me that 20 years later, I still remember this philosophy!)

As far as the part in which society depresses, traumatizes and induces anxiety, I had the same problem.

My T. suggested I stop reading the paper and watching the news for awhile in order to focus on myself so I can heal. I took that to heart and have not done either since we made that pact. It helped me tremendously. (I mean, so what if I don't know what is going on with the Kardashians, and I'd rather not know about all the atrocities going on in the world. It just upsets me, and I feel depressed and hopeless again). Selfish of me. Yes. For right now. Absolutely. But I need to heal first in order for me to be of ANY help to others. If I choose to go back to that later on.

I think the "point of life" is to remember exactly what Thoreau wrote! To be true to ourselves and march to our own music. And to NOT be a sheep just following along blindly with the herd.

Yah, for many, ignorance is bliss and stupid people really seem to be the ones having all the fun. But that's not the way we were born and that's not the way we are. And that is NOT a bad thing xx

Hugs to you,
Rose

I do like that bit of advice...I guess it's just hard to see what other options there are when your whole life you're pretty much conditioned to believe you have to conform and you have to succeed to societies standards. Seems like homelessness would be the main thing that happens if you cannot do so, so I am trying to mentally prepare myself for that.

I don't really watch the news or read the papers, Ifind recent information on the internet and such because I don't like to be totally in the dark but most of the news is just political rhetoric so no need to fill my brain with that.

It is human to practice escapisim you know Hellion. When was life ever easy? We have so much accomodations in our lives now, but our ancestors had so much less in the way of "convenience".

It is all in the way we "learn to follow that drum call" as Rose has so nicely reminded all who read this thread. Well, that is something to really toss around in the mind for a while, or maybe keep close as a daily reminder.

Hellion, we can all sit on the pity pot if we "choose" to. And it is normal to take a sit on that pot at times in our lives. But we also have to get up and at least invest in ourselves and make the best of it. Like I said, our ancestors did that, if they didn't we would not be here today.

It is important to make sure you look at what is readily available to you that brings you "some" freedoms that you may not be appreciating in your life.

Yes, it is always going to be a challenge when we interact with other human beings.
We can all be stubborn or ignorant at times. We can either opine about it or just recognise it and at least "try" to hear that distant drum. We all have that drum in each of us, often we just don't listen or we allow others to talk over it leading us to despair.

Open Eyes

Hmm I don't know...I don't feel like its really my choice how I feel. I mean no matter how much I try and look at the bright side its like there just isn't one. I mean even the good things in my life are just overshadowed by the negative environment society is and the mental issues I have.

I mean what is there in myself to even invest in? living so I don't hurt others by ending it I guess it's just hard trying to find a reason to even want to strive for anything when I feel so dead inside. I mean I don't think I allowed the despair I think it was more of a natural reaction to what my life has been and how I feel.

((((H)))) I hope you are feeling a little better today. It is super hard to find a bright light while sitting in the middle of a vast ocean of darkness.

Besides communicating with my friends on PC and my T, I try to remind myself that while I am sitting on the life raft in the middle of an endless sea, just because I cannot yet SEE the coastguard coming for me doesnt mean they arent there so I kept paddling in their direction. Eventually, we will meet up. Corny but it helps a little.