[SophiaG]

I was just wondering, since it's a school-of-thought some people believe works. Is there any evidence that Tough Love works on curing mental illness or addictions?

[(JD)]

For some areas, tough love definitely works, and sometimes is the only thing, whether it's called that or not.

In fact, The Biggest Loser I think just showcased someone whose son pulled the Tough Love card by saying he would not be in contact until his father took control of his eating issues and lost the weight. The father says it was the reason he finally took action.

It, "Tough Love" doesn't heal anyone. What it does do is force the other person to realize that they're in a serious issue that needs their serious attention. It also allows the one who's caring to find some rest while still caring about their ill/addicted family member or friend.

When it comes to mental illness and any addiction, it's important to remember that tough love is used to bring the problem to the forefront and cause the person to make a choice to heal or not. But it doesn't work if the person is high on drugs or drunk, or even too out of touch with reality to assess the situation. It isn't used to punish. I think it works well as a last resort, too.

[costello]

I agree with J.D. that it isn't meant to be a punishment. Tough love may have some use where it's a matter of letting a person suffer the natural consequence of his or her own actions. If someone bails us out every time we do something dumb, we're less likely to learn from our mistakes. Or at least that's the theory.

It can't make a sick person well, but it may help convince a someone to seek out and take treatment. So if I'm bipolar, and I've done things while in a manic state - destroyed relationship, run up huge bills, etc. - that make me suffer once the mania is past, I might eventually be motivated to try and avoid being manic again. If someone else cleans up after me, though, I don't have that motivation. So it won't directly cure someone, but it might help them seek help.

Personally I think tough love is a bit harsh. There has to be genuine compassion for the suffering of the person.

[kikki27]

Originally Posted by SophiaG

I was just wondering, since it's a school-of-thought some people believe works. Is there any evidence that Tough Love works on curing mental illness or addictions?

yeah with different people it does and some no

[Yoda]

Tough love helped my son adjust his attitude of disrespect/opposition but it's not something that could help his mental illnesses.

[Melbadaze]

I don't believe love = tough...stop enabling is what helps...what brought me to my senses with my alcoholism 8yrs ago was when I came back home after another episode and my husband had just left everything the way I'd left it when I staggered out the housE, lights all on, cans evrywhere and he'd gone to bed, norMally he'd sit up worrying (codependent at this stage) and we'd argue when I got back.

But as I say this time, not out of any pre planned "tough love", he'd just reached his own point of desperation and changed, which left me facing my own actions and behaviour, I haven't taken a drink since that night. You see both of us needed to change, he had become codependent of my behaviour and my behaviour was fuelling that.

I think Some excuse their behaviour as tough love, stops them changing themselves first.

[lastyearisblank]

I think some people respond well to tough love. I am confused by how that works exactly. I prefer love to be sweet and caring. Tough love comes off as the ultimate manipulation to me.

[lonegael]

Here there is a tendency for people to say "If you are strict with a kid he won't want to be your friend". I have had to tell my son on numerous occassions that I am not his friend, I am his mother. That means that if I have to make a choice between soemthing that is important to his welfare and something that will get him mad at me, I will choose his welfare, no argument.

To me, saying "you won't come back until you do such and such..." is a last resort. If my kid is destroying himself or threatening minor siblings or parents. Or manipulating family members out of money and other things they cannot afford. If nothing else at all works, one sometimes has no other choice. sad to say.

[Sunna]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

I think some people respond well to tough love. I am confused by how that works exactly. I prefer love to be sweet and caring. Tough love comes off as the ultimate manipulation to me.

I guess it depends what we understand as tough love. Is setting boundaries tough love? Is coming over to a depressed friend, and trying to get them out our their bedroom when they so clearly rather not, caring or manipulation?

I like how Melbadaze explained it.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

Tough love comes off as the ultimate manipulation to me.

I see it more as a setting of boundaries in response to someone else's manipulation. If they tell you, for instance, whether by their actions or in so many words, that you have to (feed them, house them, bail them out of jail, get them a drink) because you can't stand to see them suffer, saying no might help to remind them that what they've been doing isn't working very well for them.

[AAAAA]

I’ve never thought of tough love in regard to mental illness before but I guess I could see the application. But as others have mentioned it is not about “curing” anything. It means that I love you but I am no longer going to enable your behavior. You can still behave that way but I’m not help you continue to hurt yourself.

I can see how some people believe it is harsh but sometimes loving someone means you have to walk away. When you are causing more harm by enabling the behavior than good the only loving thing you can do is walk away.

[lastyearisblank]

I see what you're saying. I guess it all depends on the endgame for me. If the point is that you can't bear to see the person suffering, thats more like (as in sunna's example.. that's just being a great friend, sunna!). And of course it's always fair game to walk away from a destructive partner... no doubt that is a sacred boundary....

BUT I think not all people can attain that level of self awareness about what is their stuff and what is others'. The manipulation for me is in saying, "I'm setting the agenda now... but it's for your own good."

If someone with an illness is acting out to the detriment of others and refuses treatment that is available, I think those responsible for the well-being of the family may choose to ask the ill one to leave. Despite the illness, sometimes the welfare of others in the family is more important in my view.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by lastyearisblank

I think not all people can attain that level of self awareness about what is their stuff and what is others'. The manipulation for me is in saying, "I'm setting the agenda now... but it's for your own good."

I guess it's assertiveness training that makes a distinction between passive, aggressive, and assertive. "I'm setting the agenda but it's for your own good", sounds pretty aggressive to me while "I have to take care of you no matter what you do", sounds kind of passive. I'd like to think that "tough love" is just another term for assertive: "I'll let you live here, but only as long as you respect my boundaries."

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

I'd like to think that "tough love" is just another term for assertive: "I'll let you live here, but only as long as you respect my boundaries."

Exactly how I see it. When my son I told him I would love for him to live with me but if he could not respect me and control his behavior he would have to leave.

[lonegael]

I think it is a simple matter of asking no less than you give. I do not abuse, and i will not accept abuse. I don't play game, and I will not be played. I don't risk my family and home by dealing from the house or doing other crimes based on the home, and I would expect others under my roof to do the same. If we live together, we have to respect each other and think beyond ourselves, or there's no way it can work. If things get violent or hurtfull in otherways, sometimes there is no choice, as Byz says, than to ask the one causing the trouble to leave.
I don't believe in cutting off. My hubby's family does this "you are dead to me " crap and I don't cotton to it. But sometimes you have to say," You need to straighten this out, and I'll help you, but you can't move in or borrow from us until you show some results, and they'd better be enough that we can trust you again."

Sometimes it's easier to set game rules from a bit of a distance. You know you are taking the kid for lunch, not being suckered into giving a full free meal ticket. You know you are giving underwear for Christmas, not being suckered into buying all his/ her clothes. If you give, you know you are giving, if you loan, you make a plan. When the person is living with you, it is hard to draw the lines so clearly. This can be triggering for oneself, not just bad for the person who needs to be limited. we are so interconnected.

[AAAAA]

Very well put Lonegael!

I think some people have a hard time understanding that unconditional love does not mean you’ll just accept whatever that person dishes out. I know I’m choosing the wrong words.

[mgran]

My Dad tried it with me, when I started presenting with depression. We didn't realise how serious things were at that point, and it didn't work particularly well. But since I've been "better" and I can see things straighter, I've responded better to his toughness.

It's a bit like the story of the prodigal son, in a way. The son went a long way away from the father. The father was always waiting for him, always ready to take him back... but he wasn't prepared to go with his son to whatever dark place he ended up in. Eventually the son reached the end of himself, and realised what he'd done.

You can't keep someone tied to you, you have to let them go at some point. It's really hard. I have a great deal of respect for those that have the strength to do it.

[lekawa]

Originally Posted by costello

Personally I think tough love is a bit harsh. There has to be genuine compassion for the suffering of the person.

Amen Brotha!

I would add that the "troubled" person needs to actually be able to feel the compassion...otherwise the "tough-love" comes across as "suck it up, bucko!" which is highly inappropriate unless you're dealing with a little kid who's merely looking for clear boundaries. This is usually not the case with addicts and troubled teens. There is pain that needs to be addressed/worked out, and there needs to be a safe/trusted place for that to happen.

[AAAAA]

Originally Posted by lekawa

Amen Brotha!

I would add that the "troubled" person needs to actually be able to feel the compassion...otherwise the "tough-love" comes across as "suck it up, bucko!" which is highly inappropriate unless you're dealing with a little kid who's merely looking for clear boundaries. This is usually not the case with addicts and troubled teens. There is pain that needs to be addressed/worked out, and there needs to be a safe/trusted place for that to happen.

Hello lekawa and welcome to PC!

I don't entirely agree with that lekawa. Sometimes you are not in a place to see that something is for your benefit. In the case of addiction for example "if you truly loved me you would ..." They are so self involved that they cannot feel anything that does not fit into their rationalization of the world as a postive thing. I do agree that there is pain that needs to be addressed, but sometimes (imo) the person must first face what the current behavior is doing to themselves and those around them.

In your example of troubled teens. Teens by definition do not know what is in their best interest. They think they do, but they do not have the life experience or maturity to understand the full impact of their decisions. I often say I wish I knew half of what I thought I knew at 18. Sometimes I wish I could see life that simply again.

On curing mental illness I don't think so at all. Smart love probably does help a great deal. I don't think there is a clear cut answer for your question. I've seen people who thought they were using "tough love" but all they were doing was alienating and pushing the person away... making things worse.
For addictions it would depend on the definition of tough love and how much wisdom was mixed in with the "tough."

Originally Posted by SophiaG

I was just wondering, since it's a school-of-thought some people believe works. Is there any evidence that Tough Love works on curing mental illness or addictions?

Hi Sophia,
Good question.
Personally I just don't think it does unless
the person is perhaps doing nothing about
getting better i.e. getting therapy, staying
on your med's & not going off of them.
Talking to a person with mental illness from
my perspective should be done with compassion
w/o being judgmental or critical.
I'm sure I don't have to tell you the vast majority
of folks out in the World who are judgmental &
without taking the time to KNOW the person.
I've had just such experiences.

[RedBarchetta]

Well, I do have some pretty unconventional views on a lot of things - but - all I have seen come from such a thing is:

01.) Someone gets pissed off.
02.) You make a bad situation worst.
03.) Someone gets real good at hiding things
04.)Arguments over it for years afterwards.

But that's just my observations, and I do tend to pay attention more to the negative parts then the positive ones on everything - that's why it's so hard to find medications that work, and I will use.

[possum220]

On what? On who? and why are you using it?

Depends on the situation.

[Cocosurviving]

Originally Posted by costello

I agree with J.D. that it isn't meant to be a punishment. Tough love may have some use where it's a matter of letting a person suffer the natural consequence of his or her own actions. If someone bails us out every time we do something dumb, we're less likely to learn from our mistakes. Or at least that's the theory.

It can't make a sick person well, but it may help convince a someone to seek out and take treatment. So if I'm bipolar, and I've done things while in a manic state - destroyed relationship, run up huge bills, etc. - that make me suffer once the mania is past, I might eventually be motivated to try and avoid being manic again. If someone else cleans up after me, though, I don't have that motivation. So it won't directly cure someone, but it might help them seek help.

Personally I think tough love is a bit harsh. There has to be genuine compassion for the suffering of the person.

I COMPLETELY disagree. Mania is not something a person w/ bipolar can permanently avoid. Episodes happen even if the person is medicated. People w/ BP dx can TRY to avoid things like drinking, stress and lack of of sleep HOWEVER even doing so is NOT a grantee. I've had a manic episode AND I followed ALL the rules.