[SleeplessNY]

I'm not sure where to turn so I hope I will get some good feedback on this forum. This is a bit of a long story so please stay with me. My wife and I are both 48 years old; we have been married for 17 years. About 6 years ago my wife collapsed at dinner time, just fell to the floor and was completely unresponsive. I called an ambulance and we went to the hospital where she was admitted. She awoke but could not speak and didn't recognize anyone or the names of most things. She also had trouble walking. They did just about every test imaginable, MRI, PET scan and CAT scan just to name the major ones. She was placed in the cardiac ward since at first they thought she had a heart attack. Things came back slowly; she called me "husband" for the first 3 days before she finally remembered my name. After 9 days in the hospital she was released and we followed up with an epilepsy specialist which after additional tests epilepsy was ruled out. They then tested her for sleep disorders but they ruled that out as well. In the end they diagnosed her with conversion disorder. She saw someone who works with conversion disorder patients (therapist?) for a while to try to get to the bottom of it but she never really did. She also saw another therapist and for some reason was calling a nun in the country of Jamaica that a friend recommended she speak with. Fast forward, she has not had any additional episodes like the big one several years back but she has exhibited other behavior such as taking a fact and spinning it into a much larger tale. For example she saw a news story of a drug dealer being arrested in the town next to ours and she started telling everyone and continues to tell everyone that there is a major heroin problem at the local high school. She believes this completely as fact. She repeats this many many times to many people. She will get obsessed with a topic. For example she is very afraid of getting a tick bite. She won't let my children sit on the grass in the back yard and she insisted to a neighbor that she had a tick on her neck and had her try to remove it. When I got home from work she was very upset and showed it to me but it was a small mole on her neck that she has had ever since I know her. She will get fixated on other topics, exaggerating and repeating them as well. Off and on in spurts over the past 3 or 4 years she will wake me in the middle of the night usually between 3AM and 4 AM. When she wakes me she is outraged and angry. She has also hit me while I am sleeping. She tells me that I am talking in my sleep admitting to infidelity with a woman I used to work with. Last night she told me that I said in my sleep that I raped this other woman. She has also told me that I have also said in my sleep other things such as:
"she broke my heart" “I hate her short hair” "I want to **** 'person’s name here' " and more. Of course I have never done any of these things. I told my wife to record me talking in my sleep. She did and played it back for me and all I could hear was me snoring or muttering. She would insist "can't you hear it, right there, you said x y z. I could only hear what to me are normal sleep noises, snoring and so on. I've responded by reassuring her that I have not nor would I ever do something like that, holding her, losing it, (hey it's the middle of the night) and of course fighting with her about this. Typically she ends up apologizing profusely a few days later (this can happen on several nights in a row but probably only about 50% of the time) at which point she is very happy as if nothing happened and she gets upset with me if I don't act the same but it's difficult for me to just be happy like turning on a switch after a few sleepless nights where she has accused me of doing terrible things. She completely believes that I have done all of these things and nothing I can do can convince her. This happened again last night, I'm not sure what I can do to help her and resolve this once and for all. She has been doing this on and off for probably about 3 to 4 years. I'm not sure if any of these behaviors are interrelated but I wanted to provide as much background information as possible. I wouldn't mind talking to a professional as well, but I am not sure what type of professional to speak to or how to find someone. Any advice anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Sleepless in NY

[Open Eyes]

SleeplessNY,

Oh I am so sorry you have this challenge going on with your wife. What comes to my mind with the age factor is I am wondering if she is going through menopause because hormonal balance can really affect moods and some women have a real hard time sleeping and with mood swings etc. She should have her hormone levels checked, she should also have her thyroid checked too, thyroid issues can come about at that age too.

The way you described her attack sounded like a stroke, did they test for that? Can you talk to her doctor and possibly get another brain scan done? It has been a couple of years, something that didn't show up before might show up now.

When was her last gynecological exam? I cannot stress enough how important it is to make sure she has her hormone levels checked.

Welcome to PC, you are welcome to come and vent etc whenever you need to.

Maybe someone else will have more suggestions to consider. Be patient, a lot depends on who happens to be on and happens to see your thread.

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

[SleeplessNY]

Thank you for your reply. No menopause as of yet but the middle of the night thing has been going on for a few years now, 3 to 4 years and she has always complained of sleeping issues as does her mother to this day. At the time they did in fact think it was a stroke but that was ruled out as well. I'll have to find a way to broach the topic of having her hormone levels checked, it's a delicate topic since she is so certain that she is right about what I am saying in my sleep. Oddly enough I was just diagnosed with a thyroid issue and I am on now on medication, it's another possibility, thank you for the suggestion. I'm not sure about another brain scan as the behavior is different but perhaps a topic I can suggest if I can get to see her doctor with her. She sees her gynecologist regularly, if I recall correctly she saw her over the summer. Thank you again for your response. I have to go to work early tomorrow so hopefully tonight will be a good night.

Sleepless in NY

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

SleeplessNY,

Oh I am so sorry you have this challenge going on with your wife. What comes to my mind with the age factor is I am wondering if she is going through menopause because hormonal balance can really affect moods and some women have a real hard time sleeping and with mood swings etc. She should have her hormone levels checked, she should also have her thyroid checked too, thyroid issues can come about at that age too.

The way you described her attack sounded like a stroke, did they test for that? Can you talk to her doctor and possibly get another brain scan done? It has been a couple of years, something that didn't show up before might show up now.

When was her last gynecological exam? I cannot stress enough how important it is to make sure she has her hormone levels checked.

Welcome to PC, you are welcome to come and vent etc whenever you need to.

Maybe someone else will have more suggestions to consider. Be patient, a lot depends on who happens to be on and happens to see your thread.

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

She sounds like she is having delusions. Might be time for another psych assessment. Sounds like it has gotten worse since the initial incident.

[Emotionally Dead]

I don't have much to add on the emotional aspect.

I do have this to add though.

About a year ago my grandma got real ill. She had flu-like symptoms. She has a couple of immune-deficiencies and so anytime she gets sick she gets real scared. Well, the flu-like symptoms began to go away and so she started doing a lot more around the house. I think that that caused her to get sick all over, because she wasn't sleeping good and was doing too much. The sickness came back and got worse and worse. It got to the point where she just felt like she was going to pass out, and my grandpa took her to the hospital. In the ER she started blurring her speech, and then started precisely vomiting. They took her to the back, and their initial reaction was that she had a minor stroke "TIA".

Well, when she woke up she still had jumbled speech and one side of her body was weak. Typical signs of a stroke. Yet they ran some tests and turns out it wasn't a stroke at all. They didn't know what happened. They started doing physical therapy, and it wasn't long before she was using a walker in the hospital and getting back to herself.

I went to visit her, and when I got home I got a call. She had suffered from a major stroke. It was bad. One side of her body was completely paralyzed with little movement in the other. You couldn't make out anything she said. It was really hard to see her like that.

Slowly but surely she got some things back. Her voice got better, she regained some movement. They did more tests and guess what? Not a stroke, again they didn't know what happened. They still aren't certain, but they did diagnose her to the best of their abilities. And this may help you.

They said she had a rated disease called "ADEM". It is a disease that normally attacks children. What it is, is a normal illness stays in your body and doesn't go away. It ends up attacking your brain, causing stroke-like symptoms. Some people recover right away, some people never again.

My grandma is a little older than your wife. 58, but she has still not recovered. She needs help to the bathroom, she can't even stand up or get out of a chair by herself. She can walk with a ton of help, but has no balance and the person walking her is doing most of the work. It's been over a year now, and I don't see much hope she will ever regain everything. One of her arms still won't function much, and one of her feet as well. She has violent rages. She will slap, bite, and pinch my grandpa. She will scream at him, call him bad names and accuse him of cheating. Some days she seems normal, some days she acts like she is 5 and even calls my grandpa "daddy". It is very frustrating, so I feel your pain. My grandpa has it much worse than me. I just try to help out around the house, but he always takes care of her and even has hired a caregiver for when he is working. I don't know how he does it and stays sane, I couldn't.

Anyways, might be worth looking into. Perhaps your wife suffered from this as well, just not as severe of a case.

[healingme4me]

Sorry you are going through this. Wow, conversion disorder, don't hear that one, much anymore.

As far, as I am aware about hysteria, (conversion disorder), her moods sound like something much different, than the conversion disorder. There can be co-morbid disorders, psychologically speaking. Do, the neuros, have her, at least come in for regular check ups? They didn't find any abnormalities, whatsoever, to explain this? They coverered the entire MCDonald's diagnostic criteria, before declaring, conversion?

[-jimi-]

A friends mom (who is much older) has very similar symptoms.Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying they have the same thing, but what I'm saying is that it is easy to think something is psychiatric when in fact it is neurological. They think she had TIA attacks with progressive dementia or Lewy body dementia. At first they thought she had something in the psychiatric field.

My grandfather who died when I was little was put in a mental hospital and 20 years after his death, "they" realized he had must have had frontotemporal dementia. It's just too easy to get away with giving a psychiatric diagnosis. You can't really disprove that diagnosis, it is a dead end diagnosis until more stuff starts to pop up.

My friend's mom was lucky if there is such a thing with this, she got the proper care while my granddad was seen as totally crazy and a lost cause, he didn't even get love and understanding.

If your wife has delusions of a psychiatric nature or neurological no one can say by reading, but I would want to push for an explanation what causes the delusions.

[healingme4me]

http://www.health.qld.gov.au/abios/b...bility_pro.pdf

Effects of Stroke - Pseudobulbar Affect (PBA) - National Stroke Association

Emotional Changes : National MS Society

emotional lability - definition of emotional lability in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

I am posting a few links, that discuss, 'emotional lability'. What you describe, is concerning, and perhaps, she'll still need a pdoc, in her corner, however, what you describe, seems to be speaking to a few of us, as something a lot more, than just psychiatric.

Just because, the initial MRI's didn't seem to reveal, any abnormalities, doesn't mean that a follow up, isn't in order, especially now, with the emotional changes. Reading, MRi's can be very difficult. And sometimes, if it's the radiologist reading them, and handing over a report, the doctor may not have a chance, to thoroughly review it, on closer inspection, not saying, that happened, but it's worth following up on.

I know, that with many MS patients, lesions, may not always appear, and then later they appear. Some appear and disappear and reappear, again. I am not sure, about lyme disease, how that shows on scans. I know, there are some parkers for a stroke, but, depending on location, of abnormalities, the brain is just one very complex organ.

Plus, imo, it may be a little 'easier' to convince her, to see a neuro, than a shrink...

[SleeplessNY]

Chris,
Thanks for you reply. The question is how do I convince her to go again. She insists and fully believes she is right. She has woken me up again in the middle of the night tow more times since my original post.

Sleepless in NY

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

She sounds like she is having delusions. Might be time for another psych assessment. Sounds like it has gotten worse since the initial incident.

[SleeplessNY]

Thank you for your reply, I'll look into ADEM. I also realized that I had forgotten to mention that she had one other medical oddity prior to the big incident where one side of her face went numb and a bit droopy. At the time they thought she may have had Bells Palsy but this too got better over a period of weeks. Just another odd thing that I thought worth mentioning.

Sleepless in NY

Originally Posted by Emotionally Dead

I don't have much to add on the emotional aspect.

I do have this to add though.

About a year ago my grandma got real ill. She had flu-like symptoms. She has a couple of immune-deficiencies and so anytime she gets sick she gets real scared. Well, the flu-like symptoms began to go away and so she started doing a lot more around the house. I think that that caused her to get sick all over, because she wasn't sleeping good and was doing too much. The sickness came back and got worse and worse. It got to the point where she just felt like she was going to pass out, and my grandpa took her to the hospital. In the ER she started blurring her speech, and then started precisely vomiting. They took her to the back, and their initial reaction was that she had a minor stroke "TIA".

Well, when she woke up she still had jumbled speech and one side of her body was weak. Typical signs of a stroke. Yet they ran some tests and turns out it wasn't a stroke at all. They didn't know what happened. They started doing physical therapy, and it wasn't long before she was using a walker in the hospital and getting back to herself.

I went to visit her, and when I got home I got a call. She had suffered from a major stroke. It was bad. One side of her body was completely paralyzed with little movement in the other. You couldn't make out anything she said. It was really hard to see her like that.

Slowly but surely she got some things back. Her voice got better, she regained some movement. They did more tests and guess what? Not a stroke, again they didn't know what happened. They still aren't certain, but they did diagnose her to the best of their abilities. And this may help you.

They said she had a rated disease called "ADEM". It is a disease that normally attacks children. What it is, is a normal illness stays in your body and doesn't go away. It ends up attacking your brain, causing stroke-like symptoms. Some people recover right away, some people never again.

My grandma is a little older than your wife. 58, but she has still not recovered. She needs help to the bathroom, she can't even stand up or get out of a chair by herself. She can walk with a ton of help, but has no balance and the person walking her is doing most of the work. It's been over a year now, and I don't see much hope she will ever regain everything. One of her arms still won't function much, and one of her feet as well. She has violent rages. She will slap, bite, and pinch my grandpa. She will scream at him, call him bad names and accuse him of cheating. Some days she seems normal, some days she acts like she is 5 and even calls my grandpa "daddy". It is very frustrating, so I feel your pain. My grandpa has it much worse than me. I just try to help out around the house, but he always takes care of her and even has hired a caregiver for when he is working. I don't know how he does it and stays sane, I couldn't.

Anyways, might be worth looking into. Perhaps your wife suffered from this as well, just not as severe of a case.

[SleeplessNY]

No she doesn't see anyone and hasn't for several years now. I have to find a way to broach the topic with her to convince her to see someone, not sure how to accomplish that as of yet. I am thinking of seeing my primary physician to learn what I can do to handle this better and who I can speak with to help get advice on how to work with her and work toward identifying and resolving some of the current issues. I'm not sure how much of the diagnostic spectrum they covered in their testing. At the time of the big episode she was in the hospital for 9 days and then saw the sleep specialist as well as a bunch or other psychiatric specialists. It was a while ago, they also had her on some medication right after the big episode while she was doing the sleep study. The name of the medication escapes me at the moment (I think it started with a Lev*?) but they took her off it fairly quickly.

Sleepless in NY

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Sorry you are going through this. Wow, conversion disorder, don't hear that one, much anymore.

As far, as I am aware about hysteria, (conversion disorder), her moods sound like something much different, than the conversion disorder. There can be co-morbid disorders, psychologically speaking. Do, the neuros, have her, at least come in for regular check ups? They didn't find any abnormalities, whatsoever, to explain this? They coverered the entire MCDonald's diagnostic criteria, before declaring, conversion?

[SleeplessNY]

Thank you for your response. Your right I should push for explanations for the behavior. The more I interact with people here I am realizing that I need to push to get back in front of doctors to find out causes and address it.

-Sleepless in NY

Originally Posted by jimi...

A friends mom (who is much older) has very similar symptoms.Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying they have the same thing, but what I'm saying is that it is easy to think something is psychiatric when in fact it is neurological. They think she had TIA attacks with progressive dementia or Lewy body dementia. At first they thought she had something in the psychiatric field.

My grandfather who died when I was little was put in a mental hospital and 20 years after his death, "they" realized he had must have had frontotemporal dementia. It's just too easy to get away with giving a psychiatric diagnosis. You can't really disprove that diagnosis, it is a dead end diagnosis until more stuff starts to pop up.

My friend's mom was lucky if there is such a thing with this, she got the proper care while my granddad was seen as totally crazy and a lost cause, he didn't even get love and understanding.

If your wife has delusions of a psychiatric nature or neurological no one can say by reading, but I would want to push for an explanation what causes the delusions.

[sabby]

I'm so sorry to hear of the issues that you and your wife are going through. I can't begin to imagine how difficult it must be for both of you.

After reading your thread, I immediately thought of some kind of dementia problem, possibly Alzheimer's. Here is what I found from the Mayo Clinic about symptoms:

Changes in personality and behavior
Brain changes that occur in Alzheimer's disease can affect the way you act and how you feel. People with Alzheimer's may experience:

Depression
Social withdrawal
Mood swings
Distrust in others
Irritability and aggressiveness
Changes in sleeping habits
Wandering
Loss of inhibitions
Delusions, such as believing something has been stolen

Here is the link to that page: Alzheimer's disease: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com

Of course, I'm not a doctor and can't diagnose but I do believe that this is something worth looking into if for no other reason than to rule it out.

[-jimi-]

Something noteworthy is that the medications used for psychosis worsen dementia of the Lewy body type severely as do antihistamines. People with this can even totally shut down from a benadryl. So it is important to exclude this stuff before treating with antipsychotics.

I'd like to ask, how is her sleep? I'm just guessing she sleeps less than you since she hears you snore and stuff.

[KristyGirl7]

Originally Posted by SleeplessNY

Thank you for your reply. No menopause as of yet but the middle of the night thing has been going on for a few years now, 3 to 4 years and she has always complained of sleeping issues as does her mother to this day. At the time they did in fact think it was a stroke but that was ruled out as well. I'll have to find a way to broach the topic of having her hormone levels checked, it's a delicate topic since she is so certain that she is right about what I am saying in my sleep. Oddly enough I was just diagnosed with a thyroid issue and I am on now on medication, it's another possibility, thank you for the suggestion. I'm not sure about another brain scan as the behavior is different but perhaps a topic I can suggest if I can get to see her doctor with her. She sees her gynecologist regularly, if I recall correctly she saw her over the summer. Thank you again for your response. I have to go to work early tomorrow so hopefully tonight will be a good night.

Sleepless in NY

When she is in her more normal state, get her to listen to the tape and to admit (in writing) that she can't hear anything said. That way when she is in her "paranoia" state, she may believe her own writing? May not work, but...

Or get others to listen to the tape with her and if they all agree that they hear nothing, maybe she'll get the idea that it's her brain that's a problem? Probably not. People in paranoid state will probably just think that the whole world is trying to scheme against them. But maybe it would work...

Well, since you tried to fight against it and it doesn't work, why not try to do the opposite and admit it and say sorry profusely? Maybe that will work? With her undefined state of mind who knows what would work and what would not. Maybe she would be willing to forgive that it happened (since she's not believing that it didn't happen).

And I think that you have to start treating her as a child in your mind. So that when she is starting to say unreasonable things, you don't lose your temper and don't answer in the same fashion as she. Just be patient, be calm and say whatever things are necessary without getting emotionally involved (I mean without feeling bad about stuff she says because you know that it's not true and that she is just sick and her mind is making up stuff). Kind of like a child says "I hate you" when you not allow them to do something...