"I have a disease, not a description."

Trauma in general is not 'easy' to get over, but having a hard time dealing with trauma and developing PTSD aren't the same thing. Also it is untrue psychopaths are the only ones who get over trauma just fine..what I meant by that is many people suffer trauma and don't end up developing PTSD...that doesn't mean they aren't affected and that it might change them in some way it simply means they were able to move on without having developed PTSD. Like with the trauma that caused mine, not everyone who was there developed PTSD.

Also I don't see how acknowledging the disorder part is stigmatizing and tainting...I think it is important to acknowledge PTSD is a disorder and not just part of the normal trauma/grieving process. Saying it is just natural and not a disorder to me is stigmatizing and tainting as it defines it as a normal reaction...rather than the debilitating condition it is.

As for depression, yes everyone experenices 'depressed feelings' and they are cerainly real....but that is not the same as having Major Depression or another depressive disorder which goes beyond normal sadness based on ones life events.

Also I don't see how acknowledging PTSD is a disorder implies weakness of character...and I don't really see how it compares to a simple broken bone. I am not saying someone is disordered if the react to trauma...but PTSD is a disorder like it or not it causes disordered thinking/behavior and feelings doesnt mean the person with it has a character flaw...it means the trauma effected them in such a way they developed a terrible disorder chances are people who develop it can have genetic pre-disposition or maybe already have difficulties dealing with stress ect.

Also its not as simple as my 'soul' being hurt...my brain is messed up more than it already was and in this world one needs a brain to function...so a dysfunctional brain isn't exactly a great thing.

IMHO, there is a threshold of bad **** that is gonna eff up anybody exposed to it.

Maybe we differ in how we view "just fine". To me "just fine" is being unaffected in any way. See, I actually believe even small things affects us. I can deal "just fine" with losing a five euro bill, but I don't deal "just fine" with losing a friend or my cat dying. Just because I don't kill myself over some things, don't mean I dealt "just fine". Lot of small **** still manages to sneak up and hurt. I don't deal "just fine" with job rejections, with people doubting my abilities, with things not going my way. Maybe I am a sensitive one eh. But there's very little things I handle "just fine". At the same time, this I refuse to see this inability as some sort of disorder or glitch in brain (actually, I handle suggestion of my brain being wrong doubleplusUNjustfine).


I think something can be normal reaction and be extremelly painful and debilitating at the same time. Hence my "some things are supposed to hurt" comment. It happens. Then it comes to it how you deal with it, how much support network you got, where you go from there.

I think we gotta agree to disagree.

But for my well-being, thinking of myself as "disordered" would be the straw to break my back at times. When I say "normal, human reaction"... maybe it's a self-assurance for myself, that I *WILL* be fine. If label of "disorder" helps you in your experience, feel free to use it.

I had no major traumas prior to my disorder, though I was on ADHD stimulants for 7 years as a child, and that likely played a part.

The other thing I don't like about 12 step programs/AA is that they force you to say that you have no control over your actions and that you surrender control to a "higher power".

Now higher powers are fine and dandy, but saying you have no control seems to be setting yourself up for failure. You can admit you need help, you can even admit that you've lost control... but the goal should be to put YOU back in control, not someone else.

Plus I'm pretty sure studies have shown that 12 step programs just don't work for some people.

Yes, that's possible. The theory is most not all.

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I have PTSD and I've had dysthymia in the past and I have no problem saying I have a disorder. I find it liberating because then I know why things affect me the way they do. So perhaps what we are talking about is issues of diagnosis?

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I think the conflict about calling PTSD a disorder is that it's more like a broken bone. It's not a disease or a disorder, but you're not healthy, you need medical attention. It needs recognition, but it's not an unexpected thing either. I would call it a condition or a syndrome as someone else put it.

It's not that easy. First of all, growing up under sucky circumstances can cause issues with all types of health, mental, social and physical.

Second, those who had trauma seem to think everyone had it. Mental illness can happen despite no trauma and we need to accept that. I had many people trying to pin down what my "trauma" was and everyone think they had it correct.

Truth is I had a pretty standard childhood.

It is abusive to say someone's trauma doesn't matter, I think we can all agree on that, but it is equally abusive to tell people they have been traumatized, they just don't know it...

I've had the word condition used against me in a derogatory manner. I have not had the word disorder used against me in the same manner.

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I like that image of a broken bone. It can be a crack, a splinter, complex, compound, multiple....etc. Do people expect those with broken bones to fix it themselves? Do they say, get over it? Do they tell that person after a few days that it's been long enough get up and get going, your just lazy? Does the insurance industry say you can have x number of visits and your bone will be fine, even if it's not?
Yeah I like this, I'm going to use this next time I run into these situations. Thanks for this.

[quote=possum220;3603405]In my head a disease is something that you are exposed to, like a virus or a cold. It's something you catch. The conditions you listed including depression are not something you catch therefore cannot be described as a disease. Just my opinion.[/quoteI dont know where everyone stands on this.But i do agree,that a disease is like a virus /cold.You maybe can get rid of it(or u catch it).yes..maybe some can get rid of depression.but i remenber being depressed when i was age 4-5.i just didnt know it then.i dont know where this cat. falls.i just know i have it.And i have it. and still do.just want to get rid of it.I dont care WHAT it is..I just want it to go away.i dont know what to tell anyone that has it. Except.. i wish you didnt have it.Wish no one had it.or anything else.Love to you all. pam

Calm down. This isn't about trying to convince people of trauma they don't know about. I used the words "theory" and "almost" intentionally to indicate somebody did a study or two and "not everybody". The theory has to do with mental damage that theoretically occurs vs memory. This is a very important distinction. They tested retrospectively and prospectively using questionnaires, dsm and child welfare records. If you had trauma your chances go up astronomically hence the "most" qualifier. But it is due to >damage< not memory therefore "remembering something you had no memory of" isn't part of the study. What they now need is identifying what got damaged. That is what the link was about. That doesn't mean people with perfect childhoods don't get sick. It merely points to stronger correlations between physical anomalies, damage, disorder, whatever you want, and illness

Sheesh.... Shoot me now...

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Huh, I guess if it makes sense to you, by all means use it. I've had the opposite experience. "Condition" was always the euphemism and "disorder" meant there was something wrong with you. Granted, I much prefer "disorder" to "disease". I still think "syndrome" is a good one though. It seems the most accurate.

I think I know where jimi... is coming from, though. I think he might have misunderstood what you said, because I know I did.
What I thought you means was about the theory that was going around in the 80s or 90s about repressed memories. There were a lot of so-called "experts" who believed that almost all women and mentally ill people had been traumatized and simply repressed it. Even the ones who could remember their childhoods and knew they hadn't been abused or traumatized MUST have because in their minds, that's why people had problems. It was all very Freudian and pseudo-scientific.

Nowadays we know that true repression is actually pretty rare and only some disorders are the direct result of trauma.

No doubt having been traumatized makes you less able to deal with other issues, but so do things like stress and diet. It's not really a causal thing.

No, I am the last person to go after "repressed memories". I thought all that was bs speaking as someone who has some of those grey area memories. Zero point in trying to "uncovering" them, IMO but that is another story.

The point of the study >was< to show causal reason. That was the point of prospective and retrospective information. Feel free to read it yourself. There is a big difference between saying "all sorts of things happened and we think one or more of them might be responsible" which is what you're saying and "we can see that if we trace this backwards and forwards and we get the same results based on this common type of occurrence" which is what the study is saying. The difference is you can start to trace physical (neurological) patterns >because< of causality. Being able to do that is BIG. Again, the link in my post is about the physical part of trauma in the brain.

http://brainblogger.com/2012/07/18/w...-maltreatment/


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Okay, read through the article. I think you're misrepresenting what it says tbh.

It doesn't say that trauma causes mental illness. It says that it might exacerbate it. Which is to be expected and was never questioned...

This study specifically only shows a correlation between trauma and mental illness...

It doesn't say anything about most mental illnesses stemming from trauma or most mentally ill people having a history of trauma...

It only refers to depression, anxiety, and substance abuse, which isn't the same as "most mental illness"...

Not sure what you mean by "issues of diagnosis". I don't find the label disorder at all liberating. Nor explanatory of "why" I am going through some things. It doesn't tell me what to do nextand how to heal either.

So I guess it's matter of personal preference of percieving things.

And as for going to doctors... I am the type who would fix broken fingers with ductape.

PTSD is some traumatic experience most do remember, its the for getting bit that's hard , in the first WORLD WAR they shot you that was the treatment , todays military PTSD get help from organisations set up to treat them, although few and far between. THEY were not ill before what the may have witnessed so there,s is pin pointed straight away. Most never get over it but learn to steer there lives on another path to dull the tramma and ocourse some die because its just to vivid to forget . But time is there WEAPON and if with family carve out a life but never forget. PDSD with being bullied, molested, raped, ect ect is up to how strong you are , most are not and the problem remains for life. SO you have a choise drink, meds , drugs , or therapy , death , or blast on through the flash backs. THERAPHY to me is a waste , just another thought to add to a damaged mind. sorry folks its down to us if we make it.

Brilliant, thank you. I hate how people use mental illness as a way to describe their behaviour when it's nowhere near the actual illness.

I don't understand the some of them saying 'not a description' as opposed to exaggeration though. Exaggeration isn't a description . ..

It doesn't seem to matter whether the terms disordered, Mentally Ill, or injury, or disease is used, I find that people who do not experience PTSD first hand simply cannot understand it. I would not have understood it myself had I not experienced it first hand. Even with experiencing it first hand, I often do not understand it. I think most who have it would agree that it's hard not to have a short temper because it doesn't feel like "I survived", and it's often frustrating and exhausting and can also be painful.

It seemed so important to me to "try" to explain it too. Often that is futile when explaining it to someone who has no first hand experience as I mentioned. It can even lead to a discussion where the person who doesn't get it can begin to trigger the person struggling with it because the average person is so programed to say "just", and that's the one thing people who struggle with it really wishes they could do. Just forget, just get over it, just stop dwelling, just ignore it, just relax, just move on, and so many more of these justs that sometimes just a simple discussion can become too painful for the PTSD sufferer and they just basically want to go back to bed or hide. They can get very "clinically depressed" and some are so bad that they just want to isolate, so they can find a little peace and quiet.

I hate when people say I am not trying hard enough too, it only reminds me how much they genuinely don't understand it. People with PTSD are "constantly" trying hard. My Therapist never says that to me, ever.
It's so weird, it's like having one part of you that is you trying to figure
out why there is this other part of you that can be so disruptive. Depending on the person's history, it can take time to figure out why some deep disturbance takes place in what is called a "trigger". See what most who don't experience it first hand don't understand, is that triggers that take place are not always from "knowns", meaning, I know this triggers me. Something triggers and a cycle begins and it can be quite time consuming to figure out "what is coming forward that is so damn crippling".

I would have never imagined being in my 50's and reliving every damn detail of a horrible experience I lived through at age 3. It's not even "just" a memory either, instead it is so vivid in every sense, just as if it is right now, in every way. That was over 50 years ago, why relive that now? Then I have to figure out "why" that did happen and what about that experience produced defense mechanisms in me that I honestly didn't even realize.

Someone once said that what can happen is a major trauma takes place that takes all one's subconscious memories/experiences that they "thought" was all neatly filed away, and just throws them all down on the floor like a bunch of puzzle pieces all strewn out. Whether one likes it or not, they have to spend time slowly putting all these pieces, which is often painful and exhausting and confusing, somehow back into a new and more organized place.

I remember when the PTSD got to a point where I began seeing that too,
I genuinely felt completely overwhelmed with it. I felt that there was no
possible way I could "ever" explain it in a way "anyone" could even begin
to understand it. I remember thinking that it would be way too much of
a burden for others and that it would be better for them if I ceased to exist. That is the dangerous period in PTSD and I am convinced that is the stage where many act on that overwhelming feeling/sense too.

What saved me was meeting someone here at PC, who knew where I was and finding a new therapist who genuinely understood it too. It's amazing how just one person can make such a huge difference. Its a amazing, how "I believe you" can mean so very much.


OE

I find all of the ads/messages quite depressing and very negative. I understand what it's trying to say, but it still misses the mark, imo.

It focusses on a negative aspect of each of the sufferings, and rather than give hope, they seem to solidify the out of "my" control hopelessness of each malady.



The term "disease" while correct because each of those cause dis-ease, it's too permanent. Plus, and I think this may be what the thread is discussing, "disease" has the physical illness connotation and doesn't fit mental unwellness--yet. Many of those maladies are "just" disorders.. a dis-ordering of thinking, of the mind. Disease makes it sound like a permanent physical disability to me.

Be well. Just my pov.

I prefer disorder to disease.

Abuse in childhood certainly creates mental illness. I suffer with depression caused by my mother who was totally self absorbed (narcissist) A 'refrigerator mother'. I had a miserable, cold childhood.
Some mental illness is (I believe) genetic, so even if your parents are good and your childhood happy you could still suffer with it.

Like I get very annoyed when people insist my mother must have been abused as a child because mother is a malignant narcissist . But that's not the case at all. My mother's mother was a lovely woman, kind, generous and soft hearted. Everyone who knew her describes her as such especially my mother who remembers a happy childhood, with lots with fond memories.

Her father was a strange difficult man however, mean with emotion, money, food, and very controlling of those things.
He was not overtly abusive, it was the 1940s so he went to work and left childcare to his wife.
My mother is very very controlling and mean like her father. And no I absolutely do not believe she was abused and 'doesn't remember it' or had some early 'narcissistic injury'. Simply, she was born like it.

So, yes abuse often causes mental illness, but its not always the case by any means.

I like the description of schitzophrenia being a sufferring of the mind, i have it and i know what it feels like, others don't understsnd that don't have it because they've never experienced anything like it themselves. I also have severe depression, but all of this could have been caused by several head injuries i've had and there is no way for me to help myself but to take meds which i am so thankful for. I feel like signing myself in the pschyc ward right now, i go through this everyday until i'm fully awake. I also need alot of time to myself which i hear is a symptom of schitzophrenia, but then again i'm very lonely and am thaankful for this site and plan on using it alot today, i feel not so alone with it.

Childhood abuse will eff you up for sure. I often wonder if some of the NAMI mommies who screech about "parent blaming" each time this possibility is mentioned and insist it's medical and totally medical only... they mighta have some (a lot?) blame too (especially since lot of them vehemently pushes for forced treatment).

I didn't had abusive childhood (if you don't count my neglective grandmother, father's mother and her whole effed up family), but had some traumatic **** happen. Losing a parent at ten being the main thing I still haven't managed to process correctly (aka "just fine").

According to the diagnosis manual DSM-IV's definition of dysthymia, it is a serious state of chronic depression, which persists for at least 2 years (1 year for children and adolescents); it is less acute and severe than major depressive disorder.[4] As dysthymia is a chronic disorder, sufferers may experience symptoms for many years before it is diagnosed, if diagnosis occurs at all. As a result, they may believe that depression is a part of their character, so they may not even discuss their symptoms with doctors, family members, or friends

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysthymia



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