Just MY thoughts...

Okie, many times *I* feel as if I don't have a life. I've seen it expressed on the boards by other's, too. Perhaps that's why I have an issue with "IRL". In many ways, PC IS my life. Let's not make an issue of that, okay?

Maybe I have a sixth sense or maybe it's my mastery of the English language and/or (sorry Candy! LOL) the fact that I learned "clear, concise communication" at the knee of a former T, but I personally don't find any problem understanding what people type and how they type it. My efforts to communicate my feelings show in all the smilies I post along with what I type. I don't use them loosely when the subject is serious. I'm conveying my feelings with the smilies.

These, again, are my thoughts and feelings. No need to argue because I won't change my mind.

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maybe i use 'argument' and 'debate' as technical notions where they don't have the connotations that people here seem to take them to have.

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You may have, indeed, just hit on a nugget of wisdom, Alexandra! You're speaking one language and most of us are speaking another! Something for all of us to think about.

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SeptemberMorn said:
In many ways, PC IS my life. Let's not make an issue of that, okay?


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If this is true, I'm so sorry...

Okie

> You're speaking one language and most of us are speaking another! Something for all of us to think about.

i guess that is when it can be important to ask the person to clarify...

Maybe DocJohn needs to give us a link to his dictionary, so we can all check the words? I mean that, really. To me, the common definitons of both argument and debate involve "contention."

I often have to rethink what someone has said, and base that review on how the person normally posts, maybe even add some of their general attitude picked up in chat, to come to a better idea of what they currently mean in a post.

But I find that even asking someone to clarify can be taken the wrong way.

IMO it all boils down to what perspective the reader is coming from at the time, as to how they will take any particular post. That, imo, is their responsibility to make sure it's the best they can do when they respond.

I agree.

de·bate

v. de·bat·ed, de·bat·ing, de·bates

1. To consider something; deliberate.
2. To engage in argument by discussing opposing points.
3. To engage in a formal discussion or argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
4. Obsolete To fight or quarrel.

v.tr.

1. To deliberate on; consider.
2. To dispute or argue about.
3. To discuss or argue (a question, for example) formally.
4. Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.

n.

1. A discussion involving opposing points; an argument.
2. Deliberation; consideration: passed the motion with little debate.
3. A formal contest of argumentation in which two opposing teams defend and attack a given proposition.
4. Obsolete Conflict; strife.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/debate

ar·gu·ment

n.
1.
a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate.
b. A quarrel; a dispute.
c. Archaic A reason or matter for dispute or contention: "sheath'd their swords for lack of argument" Shakespeare.

2.
a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life.
b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now.
c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others.

3.
a. A summary or short statement of the plot or subject of a literary work.
b. A topic; a subject: "You and love are still my argument" Shakespeare.

4. Logic The minor premise in a syllogism.

5. Mathematics
a. The independent variable of a function.
b. The angle of a complex number measured from the positive horizontal axis.

6. Computer Science A value used to evaluate a procedure or subroutine.

7. Linguistics In generative grammar, any of various positions occupied by a noun phrase in a sentence.

[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin argmentum, from arguere, to make clear; see argue.]

Synonyms: argument, dispute, controversy

These nouns denote discussion involving conflicting points of view. Argument stresses the advancement by each side of facts and reasons intended to persuade the other side: Emotions are seldom swayed by argument.
Dispute implies animosity: A dispute arose among union members about the terms of the new contract.
Controversy applies especially to major differences of opinion involving large groups of people: The use of nuclear power is the subject of widespread controversy.

___________

The use of 'argument' that I'm most familiar with is the notion that is used in logic (which is a little related to the computer science, math, and linguistics usages). I appreciate that more standard usage of 'argument' is 1 (a or b in particular). I guess my standard usage of 'argument' is more in line with 2, however.

When people use 'argument' and 'debate' interchangably I figure they must mean the 2nd def of argument since the entry on debate makes it clear that 'fight', 'quarrel', 'conflict', 'strife' usages are OBSOLETE (which is to say not currently accepted meanings)

i guess there are evaluative and non-evaluative usages. for me... debate and argument is about discussing something and trying to mutually come to a better understanding.

for others... debate and argument is about hostility, conflict, whos right and whos wrong, one upmanship etc etc etc.

i understand that the second isn't appropriate here.
but i do find it frustrating that attempts to engage in the first are often judged to be instances of the second.

i figure the way one expresses oneself is the thing to focus on. just express myself as best i can, try and give people the benefit of the doubt, worry about my posts and leave other people to take care of themselves. when i start to feel like they need to change then its time for me to walk away from my computer for a time.

(sorry so few words) (sigh................)

Please let's not debate the meaning of words. Regardless of what the dictionaries say, we ALL KNOW that it's a breach of the guidelines to argue/debate because, whether the dictionaries agree or not, people's emotions WILL run high.

The subject of this thread is the amazement, possesion, shock, anger, surprise in differing opinions... If someone states and opinion... someone else WILL come along with a differing point of view or a different experience. In short, the subject of the thread is OPINIONS and accepting differing ones in any given thread, not WORDS and their meanings. We all speak English here and have a basic understanding of what our words mean. Furthermore, this isn't an English class.

*sigh*

Sorry Tomi, I should have known.

No need to be sorry. *I* understood your comment and your intent.

It does not take Einstein to figure out that people who don't like certain other people are more likely to perceive negative intent. And negative actions. And. Oh crap.

Hello everyone and (((FUZZY))) whom I would like to thank for bringing this idea to mind to share with you all at Psych Central. I do agree with a lot of op0inions here but I feel that I just had to address what Fuzzy is saying in general. I agree that there are times when everyone has an off day every once in a while, but there is a GREAT difference in having a bad day and doing something involuntarily, and being mean and nasty to someone because someone has to feel they are better than another person, or that they feel the need to harm someone else. It is sad to see this type of behavior happen from time to time, and it is most imperative that no one try to take on the responsibility to harm themselves more by trying to fix the problem themselves and causing themselves to relapse in their recovery process. Go to the moderators and let them do their job if inappropriate behavior is happening that is harming you or someone else at Psych Central. It does not take very much to cause problems on site this large, and it only takes a minute to PM a moderator to help protect the site. If the situation is harmful in its existence no one can assume that is not harming others at Psych Central, just because others are not strong enough to stand up for themselves. There always has to be someone stronger to help out the weaker people at Psych Central to keep the harm level down and things going smoothly as possible. Take care and good day. Soidhonia.

This is MY take on what's going on with this thread, ok? It's a prime example of what I spoke of in the opening post. People are expressing their own opinions and others are taking exception to those opinions. WHY? Allow others to think what they want but at the same time allowing ourselves our own opinions. We don't have to agree with others, but neither do we have to get upset because they don't think like we do.

Honestly, I don't think there has been any intent to be mean or cause trouble. It's simply a stated opinion, a sharing of oneself and one's knowledge. Fine! Let it go. Don't buy into what you perceive as an "argument" or a "debate." It's not personal to YOU. It's personal to the person stating their thoughts and their opinions.

the wheels on the bus go round and round...

i do appreciate this thread. ((((sept)))) <- if safe.

have a happy day.

**administrative edit per guidelines.

KD

((((fuzzy))) <- if safe

((((((((( Alex ))))))))) (if ok)

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alexandra_k said:
i do appreciate this thread. ((((sept)))) <- if safe.

have a happy day.

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My mother always told me to never reject love/affection in whatever form it came to me. She taught me well.