[SeptemberMorn]

How can anyone, when they post on any given subject, NOT expect other's opinions? Why the amazement, possesion, shock, anger, surprise in differing opinions?? In MY estimation, two or more sides to an issue need to be expressed, especially if someone is trying to make up their minds which path to take or which side of the fence to fall off on. It's like buying a new pair of shoes. How do we know what color or style we want if we don't look at the different options we have?

If someone states and opinion, and we ALL have them (they are like mouths), someone else WILL come along with a differing point of view or a different experience. If those aren't expressed, and someone is trying to make up their mind, it's like buying a pair of shoes that haven't been seen! I wouldn't do it, would you?

On a board such as this, where SUPPORT is the main goal, there comes a time to draw a very fine line in the sand to show where SUPPORT ends and arguments begin. ACCEPTANCE is key; acceptance of other's opinions, life styles, experiences and feelings. Our opinions, life styles, experiences and feelings are OURS and no one can take them away from us by force. However, we could be persuaded to see things from a different perspective. If not, so be it! Trying to close off other views or experiences is quite a narrow and selfish way of supporting others. After all, we are the only one we have to live with 24/7. We need to make the choice that sets best with our own spirit and our conscience. But we don't have the right to shove our choices and our reasons for those choices down the throat of others! That is NOT support, understanding or caring.

Peace, light and love to all.

[bebop]

I have to agree with you on this. If I didn't want opinions then I would keep my mouth shut. Although I might not like some opinions if I post a question then I should get an answer.

[MyBestKids2]

[lenjan]

Well said, Tomi.

[Soidhonia]

Hello September. I agree and I feel it is especially important (just My own opinion), that if people are not getting the support they need then someone needs to get to the point and just be straight up and tell the people not seeing a therapist or getting professional help to get the help they need. The consumers and participants of Psych Central are Usually not Psychlogists , therapists, or Drs., so I hope everyone trys to stay safe in their own recovery in not feeling pressured to diagnose or be someones support when they are not stable themselves. It is very hard at times to step back when someone is in need and tell a person at Psych Central I am sorry but you need to seek professional help, I can not help you at this time, because I am going through issues myself. It is nice to help but is nice to help yourself know when helping is not going to be a threat to your own recovery. There is nothing wrong in being honest and truthful if you are not stable enough to help someone else then send then to their own mental health professionals. Thank you again September for bringing this to the attention of the participants of Psych Central. Take care and good day. Soidhonia

[Danialla]

Agreed!

Differences of opinions are what makes each of us special.

Explaining your opinion to someone does not make their opinion wrong.....heck it is THEIR opinion in the first place, but hopefully will allow them to see that there are others out there with different experiences and thus different beliefs/opinions.

Thanks for the posting.

[okiedokie]

I agree Tomi. I would just add that I don't think it's the opinion that is usually not accepted well, but the way in which it is written.

When I post it is with the thought that others will take it or leave it based on their own mind and research. I try to be very careful how I word things, though, so as not to come off as a pompous *****. And sometimes I fail...

...particularly when I feel strongly about something.

There can be many "right" ways to choose for a person and no "opinion" here is wrong.

However, someone's advice can be incorrect if not based on enough correct information.

And I agree with Soidhonia, that people here should let their T, pdoc, and peeps IRL help them make the important decisions in their life because we don't know each other very well online.
Best,
Okie

[Sabrina]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
okiedokie said:
I agree Tomi. I would just add that I don't think it's the opinion that is usually not accepted well, but the way in which it is written.

Okie

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I absolutely agree with that!!

I feel if I don't want opinions on something then I choose not to post about it!

Differing opinions have often helped me to come to a decision though!

[SeptemberMorn]

The thing is, you're going to get opinions or differing points of view whether you ask for them or not. I see this board as a great big conversation area. Everyone is free to post or respond to whatever interests them. Why can't we just accept that other people aren't going to see things the same way we do and move on. If you feel you HAVE to say something, just say "Thank you for your input, however I don't agree" and leave it at that.

[SeptemberMorn]

Thank you for your agreement, MBK and Candy.

[SeptemberMorn]

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The consumers and participants of Psych Central are Usually not Psychlogists , therapists, or Drs.,

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Exactly! And if there are these people here, they are not acting in that capacity.

OOPS! There are a couple of exceptions; Dr Clay and whoeveer is giving advise in the Drug Forum. I don't go there, so I don't know who that is at this time.

[SeptemberMorn]

Right! That's what I meant to say in the quoted paragraph. You stated it much clearer than I. Thanks!

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
On a board such as this, where SUPPORT is the main goal, there comes a time to draw a very fine line in the sand to show where SUPPORT ends and arguments begin. ACCEPTANCE is key; acceptance of other's opinions, life styles, experiences and feelings.

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[(JD)]

Unfortunately, there's so much finger pointing some members forget they are doing it.

If everyone agreed all the time, or didn't share what they know, what a boring site this would be.

[nothemama8]

yeah but when fingers get pointed there are 3 pointing back at the person

[(JD)]

True, but if it isn't realized, what good is it?
Is this the question thread?
Maybe I've been playing it too long?
Maybe people forget this isn't real life but virtual, and a different place?
Maybe people are so tormented IRL, so disrespected IRL that it rubs off on them and they naturally display it here to others?
Maybe sadness makes people say things they wouldn't normally?
Maybe being virtual allows people to say things they wouldn't normally, but want or need to?
Is that enough questions?

(sorry Tomi, if you think this is a hijack, say so and I'll delete.)

[SeptemberMorn]

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_Sky said:


Unfortunately, there's so much finger pointing some members forget they are doing it.

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And that's precisely what brought me to start this thread! So many of us here tend to take things so personally that I was hoping some would actually take a look at their fingers to check which way they are pointing.

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If everyone agreed all the time, or didn't share what they know, what a boring site this would be.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I don't remember saying anything about agreeing. Of course, we can't expect everyone to agree! But we don't need to get agressive or argumentative about our disagreement with any given statement, point of view, experience or opinion. We'd be more supportive by just accepting that "it just is" even if we state that we don't agree for whatever reason.

[(JD)]

I wasn't saying you said anything about agreeing It just seems that lately, some are saying I disagree and taking me to task for it. (Of course, they are disagreeing with me while doing that, but hey!)

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok. I disagree with you that this isn't "IRL." It's been my experience that it is because whatever happens here, whatever we read, etc. DOES impact us one way or the other. We cry, we laugh, we share and many times more so than in 3D. There's something about telling a stranger our innermost secrets that's not quite as frightening as telling someone face to face.

We take away with us what we've experienced here no matter whether it's good or bad. There have even been a few lives saved because a suicidal person was in chat with someone. If that isn't "IRL," then I don't know what is. I'm a different person than I was four years ago simply because I've experienced many things here on this board. That makes it "IRL" for me.

Maybe people are so tormented IRL, so disrespected IRL that it rubs off on them and they naturally display it here to others?

Again, whether we've been tormented or disrespected in 3D or vitually, we are still products of our experiences.

Maybe sadness makes people say things they wouldn't normally?

Isn't that a biproduct of almost any mental illness?

Maybe being virtual allows people to say things they wouldn't normally, but want or need to?

Very simply, yes! For us to know and accept that, don't you think, falls under the category of SUPPORT?

I choose to not consider your questions as a hijack because, after all, isn't that a part of my point? If you want to get into my head even further, please feel free to do so!

[(JD)]

Do I need a flashlight?

I think that we need a new phrase or something to differentiate between IRL and Virtual life... for the very reasons you stated. There's a difference, but people are the same, just showing up differently?

Tomi, have you noticed how when we have a discussion thread ( you and I end up with it)...few others participate?

Now why do I fear DocJohn coming in and saying that if we want to have this discussion to use PM? I don't need to feel that way. Right?

[SeptemberMorn]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
_Sky said:
... It just seems that lately, some are saying I disagree and taking me to task for it. (Of course, they are disagreeing with me while doing that, but hey!)

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It's okay to disagree. In fact, it's more than okay. It's the "taking me to task" that isn't okay. It's the anger, the contradiction and the arguing that isn't okay. It's not supportive.

[SeptemberMorn]

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I think that we need a new phrase or something to differentiate between IRL and Virtual life...

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I'm perfectly satisfied with using "in 3D" to make the difference between virtual and what you call "IRL." You're obviously not comfortable with it, so YOU come up with what you can be comfortable with.

Personally, I don't see why Doc John would tell us to take it to PM if we remain civil, friendly and supportive with each other. (pssst! Your paranoia is showing! )

[lenjan]

Some of us have jobs that require us to work nights and weekends, and can't get here as often as we would like. Others may have actual lives, such as kids to attend to, etc. Perhaps that would explain part of this:

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Tomi, have you noticed how when we have a discussion thread ( you and I end up with it)...few others participate?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I would have gotten here earlier if I could have. If it weren't for a very laid-back editor sending me home 3.5 hours early, I wouldn't be here now.

The other part of the above is that some of us get tired of doing this:



Continuing to bang your head against the wall, hoping it will be different this time and you won't get bloody, eventually ceases to work when you finally accept some things (and some people) will never change.

I think there is a lot to be learned from this thread, if one can read it with an open mind. You've done a lovely job explaining, Tomi.

CB

[okiedokie]

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candybear said:
Others may have actual lives,

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Hi Candy,
I'm sure you didn't mean to insinuate that some of us don't have actual lives?

Tomi, I agree that we can be affected by how we interact here on the boards. So, you and Sky are both right!

Don't you think there is a difference between how you are perceived IRL vs. 3D? With the written word, we lose so much information! No tone of voice, no eye contact, no volume, no body language etc. Interpreting these signals is in included in a class I teach to local law enforcement and I think it is so important to good communication. And, I think it can "soften" our words and we lose all that in a post here.

Others' thoughts?
Okie

i agree with okie that the main problems seem to arise from the WAY people write what they have to say rather than the CONTENT that they are trying to express.

i also think that it is much easier to externalise and worry about what OTHER people are doing than it is to worry about ones own actions. i guess we can say 'i'd worry about myself if only they would worry about themself' till the cows come home. it takes a great amount of strength and compassion for someone to break out of the cycle and focus on their own actions REGARDLESS of what other people are doing.

i have trouble with the notion that there is a divide between 'support' on the one hand and 'argument or debate' on the other hand. maybe i use 'argument' and 'debate' as technical notions where they don't have the connotations that people here seem to take them to have. not sure about that. i see 'argument' and 'debate' as being akin to 'discussion'. i don't see why a discussion can't be supportive to someone while at the very same time expressing opinions or ideas that diverge from someone else.

to say something along the lines of 'we will just have to agree to disagree' doesn't seem to be a strategy for furthering the discussion so much as a strategy for ending it. i agree that there can be a time and a place for that (when feelings are running hot, for example, and where people are investing a lot in outcomes). but i also think that discussions could continue for longer than they tend to if everyone (me included) was more careful with the way that things are expressed.

I also think that sometimes people simply do just want support. Sometimes people say that they feel fragile and just need a little support right now, and I think that generally speaking people tend to be pretty good at offering support in those situations. Othertimes people do seem to want a discussion, however. I don't really understand how people can expect to discuss things only with people who agree with them... But then... Seems to happen on the faith board all the time ;-)

[SeptemberMorn]

I know your frustration, Candy!

Somewhere, maybe in my teenage years, I developed a very strong streak of rebelliousness. I became an arguer but neither of the two women I grew up with would listen, so... I learned to scream and hold the subject for as long as my voice wasn't being heard. You can call it tenacity or you can call it bullheadedness or stubborness. Any of those terms will do. I also learned to shut my mouth after explaining and trying to make my point. Then I learned I statements. In short, I gave my mother and my ex-husband and even present husband the silent treatment after I was certain that I had said all I had to say and my point had been made. None of the above people have ever really listened to me so I'm used to it, I guess.

It's a certainty that I won't be understood by some posters. That's okay. I've tried and given it my best shot. But having witnessed my mother bang her head against the hall wall, I swore to myself that I would never allow anyone to push me to that point. There are times I fail, but in this instance, I WON'T! MY thoughts are out there. Many have understood them. Those that won't, well, they won't. It's THEIR problem.

If these people, whoever they may be, are willing to take a long, hard look at themselves to see if they may, perchance, need some communication skills... or maybe have grown a set of blinders they need to shed, well... I suggest they re-read the thread and ask themselves some questions. "Am I guilty" would be a good start. No, I'm not saying that you are one of those people. You and I understand each other quite well. Just a little nudge here, Sweety; don't take things personally, ok? Shrug them off if you know they don't fit.