Adults losing touch with the youth

thanks for sharing this muffy, I totally agree with you.

Thank you (((miss my kitty)))))))))) As I said so close to my heart it is.
Theres so much we can do for our children, everyones children....
muffy

Totally disagree with this statement, Muffy. My oldest son has never laid a hand on his two boys. He was the one that got the most spankings growing up.

I always had limits to what was a spankable offense and what wasn't. His stubborness and defiance of his parents were nearly always reasons for a limit of no more than three swats and then a taking away of priviledges.

Why did I limit the number of smacks my kids got? Because my mother would beat me unmercifully with my own leather belt. You see? She didn't breed violence in me. My son did one better than I did.

yeah .. but thats kinda like the 'well my grandfather smoked two packs a day and he was healthy till he died of old age at 93' thing some smokers say..
its just that i dont believe in hitting. like muffy says there are lots of other options that work that dont involve spanking...

Sept you can choose to disagree with me . You are you and I am me.
My mom when I was young hit me so bad with a hair brush bristle side. I could not sit for a week. At least a week. I never remembered all those years what i had done wrong. Till this summer. The point is imo not all kids know what they have done wrong just because they were hit.
It ended with me. I knew I could teach them with out hitting. Ever............
Knowing our children in my eyes is the best way. That means sitting talking with them. Listening.Growing respect between each other.....
Respect is part of Love....
I will and always choose Love and peace with ppl..................and my children.....

May we never lose touch with our youth.......they are the future
muffy

Muffy, that wasn't discipline. That was abuse, pure and simple. I'm talking about discipline which means "to teach."

Shangrala, in response to your question, "Adults losing touch with the youth," the answer is yes.

Some of us have gone on a spanking vs not spanking tangent and other important things have been left out. Family time is very important in the teaching aspect, too. This is where young children learn to interact with their family and that carries through into their social life.

Families don't seem to have time anymore for just being with each other. We don't need to continue beating the dead horse of TV, computers and video games. Yes, they are all at fault. Kids get addicted to them and/or parents use them as baby sitters. Better yet, they use them to get the kids out of their hair.

Families don't eat together anymore, they don't pray together or go to church together. Parents turn their kids over to the public school system to raise yet they take any authority away from the teachers. One of the biggest complaints from my grandkids teachers is that the parents don't get involved in their school work or school activities. It was a complaint back when my two oldest were in school. They are 46 and 42 respectively. Shoot! I remember in my junior year, I was in a school play and my mom showed absolutely no interest in even helping me with my lines! She didn't go to the play, either.

Even to this day, I encourge the two boys that are local to come have a picnic at our place at least once every two months. Sometimes it's a battle to get them together. It's not only important for the nucleous families to spend time together; it's important for extended family, too.

Anyway, I've contributed more than my two cents worth. I've said enough on this thread.

As an older teenager, I'd like to post on this topic.

I'm still a "minor", so to speak, and I have some very unfavorable experiences with spanking...
I know that not all parents are the same and that some support spanking, but it can get so unreasonable. My mom's a prime example: She would get angry at me for things that weren't even my fault, and then she'd go nuts. Her last display of "discipline" was choking me in a fit of rage. Forgive me if I'm going over the line, but I believe that physical discipline spurred by anger can quickly get out of control. Perhaps it's something that could be avoided? There was one more thing I wanted to point out,too-I became incredibly apathetic because of over-discipline.

Trusting my parents all of the time isn't exactly a good thing, either. I've experienced a lot of heartbreak and sadness by trusting my parents no matter what.

Lastly, my parents are NOT the "listening" type, so I can't talk to them about much, if anything at all..And by being unavailable, they're missing out on much of my life.

I really hope there's a better balance than being one way or another as a parent.

yes i agree... this thread isn't about abuse, it's clear we all say thats always wrong.
The point we.... or at least I am trying to make is that you can raise your kids without spanking them (wich is just a milder form of violence in my opinion). So why hold on to spanking anyway? I don't see a reason.

And yes Sept and Muffy are right as well... all those other things like really listening to your kids, knowing whats going on, spending time together for simple family activities etc are important too...
Kids probably get more problems if these things are lacking then when they get spanked ocassionaly.

Now I've had a horrible example of parenthood (my parents abused me and my brother in about every way possible) I have no kids and no desire to ever get them... also im 15 so not an adult yet...so I guess you can say who are you to act like u know it better then me...
But I'm just saying what I think about the topic and I'm glad there are some people here who agree with me.

Blue

kids drink smoke and do drugs at skateboard parks here. oh and they paint graffiti everywhere all over them too. a lot of them tend to be the little hoodlums that like to terrorize the neighbourhood.

but .. what has that got to do with spanking?
like if their parents had spanked them...they would have been wellbehaved kids?
No.... of course not...
I'll let you know up until about a year ago you'd prob thought I was one of those kids... Always on the streets... afraid to go home... Illfitting and old clothes... however I've never done anything more serious then ringing bells and running away and other stuff in that category.. I guess I'm trying to say don't generalise.. even though some kids are bad... and there will always be kids like that and there always have been kids like that... not all of them are bad.

lol if you were replying to my post i wasnt referring to spanking at all... was referring to something muffy mentioned about skateboard parks. was just taking a little sidetrip off topic. chill

ok (.........)

are parents who spank thier children really saying 'I cant find any other way to resolve this.'?

I never said it was discipline((((((sept))))))))))))))))))))))
sorry if you got what i said wrong
Your right it was abuse .............
As i agreed with............

So sorry you took what i said wrong.....
I teach I do not spank never ever did...
so sorry if that was mistaken..

((blue))))))))))) if you took what i said wrong I am sorry too

just need to clear that.......
Kids matter...

This was part of my first statement before I got off track. Very sorry about that
:We do not need to lose touch with our youth, We need to take part in it. Know what they are watching on Tv. Know what they are doing on the net. Get them to go outside do more physical activities.
My son hardly watches TV now or plays video games or is on the net. Hes outside skate boarding and doing things.
you have all read the issues he has had. Violence only teaches violence...........
One more thing sorry to go on and on. We as adults can help community's we live in start back up youth centers. Skate board parks. Safe places for our children to be.
We can show them the way....While doing that learn so much from them. They are so very very smart .....The stuff our children have to share is amazing. That's every child......sometimes
(((hypers comment reminded me)) ((ty hyper))) as always
I am really sorry if i got off track.
muffy

I don't think so nowheretorun...

To choose violence as a resource (not a response) one must first have been exposed to it as an option.

The results of that experience, as have been expressed here, fall into a continuim..the behavior is modified without long term effect on one end...the behavior continues with the added resentment of being "abused(?)" on the other...various degrees within..

For some it is an act of utter frustration,,without the benefit of calm thinking...sometimes shame can appear after the event...

For others,,it is a learned activity,,harmless in degree,,like bigotry.

For others still, it is what must be done.

I think some of us remember the effect violence had upon us and are able to put it into context. That context is able to apprise its effect upon the spanker and spankee...For some the act has lost it's value..for others it remains...

That is true for the spanker and the spankee...

My personal deepest perspective on violence is that is an act of fear. I have been afraid and I have been violent. I have never been violent without being afraid.

I am working on my fears so I am finding myself less violent.

Again,,IMHO.

Lenny

((((((((mufffy)))))) no your post didnt offend me or anything like that ... dw
i totally agree with you

yeah... wondering that too... why do some people hold onto it so tightly..

i'm pleased this topic has come up, it fits well within the bullying research i am still working on...

it seems to me that when a parent reaches the point of no alternative but spanking, or corporal punishment, the parent is in essence saying... 'I have run out of all possible alternate solutions.' That parent is out of ideas or, rushed to the final solution themselves.

the child is towered over, kind discipline or otherwise, the child is defenseless and without defense. The punishment WILL be delivered.

what place of mind is that to put our children into? what lesson does it teach? that size matters?

there is always an alternative and as peaceful citizens we are called to discover it..

the way of violence is reaching its limits.. the planet can no longer afford such a mindset... i think its time to end the bullying era for all....

peace and love

I agree.
Sometimes adults forget how its like to be young and
the our lives is no easier then theirs.
Most adults would actually be surprised with how many things teens have to go through.
Parents and teens should talk more often in order to create a connection and have a better understanding about our lives.

I am 16 and I know that my parents, my dad in particular ALWAYS compares me and my brother based on when he was growing up. He doesn't realize or want to admit that it is different now.

I have a deep respect for your spiritual place nowheretorun. It would be presumptuous of me to dictate your resume of experiences that brought you there. I know what you have shared but in any brick wall there is bricks and motor we don't see.

As I shared previously, I don't think there is a prescribed mindset that apllies corporal punishment. There is also the cultural aspect which we could discuss at length. "Spankings" are mild western annoitments of power as compared to other areas of our world. I wonder if your bullying research is culturally diverse?

I agree totally in spirit to your call for mercy and contemplative patience with each other. More often than not,,after a full belly and a comfortable chair,,the deamons we thought we saw were hunger on some level and fear of being hungry again.

With care,

Lenny

i dont know if im going anywhere near your area with my research Lenny but i appreciate the thoughtful energy you give to these social and environmental concerns we all share in common... this 'one Earth' way of thinking necessitates a consideration of all that is...

not to get too deep too quickly, i am researching mans' habitual repetition of violence as an alternative path towards peace and joy... the idea bears doubtful promise from the onset...

alternatively, if we are peaceful in the process of seeking peace, we increase our chances of hitting our common aims...

when i think about violence against the child and its recurrent generational anger, i can easily forgive the past and the current because what is passed from the parent, becomes the child in some form...

it is our task as the current (hopefully not last) generation to do our part in this historic drama..

the world now suffers the effects of numerous unhealthy habits, not the least of which is violence...

we cant continue as a species and allow violence to be our disciplinarian.. violence only creates more violence.. there really is no acceptable degree of violence if we are to live free as a peaceful society...

generationally, humankind has failed to learn this simple lesson repetitively.. anger and resentment has compounded with each new generation and now we are at a point where weaponry is capable of complete annihilation of our common home and our industrial systems are knocking out environmental areas on a grand scale... the weather is responding ferociously..

it forces a new community concept and calls each of us into a front line and ancient dilemma... what does violence achieve for mankind... what good will it do our future? how can we improve our dilemma? it can be done in a spirit of common interest ... we each are shareholders of this project...

the children are depending on us as others have said... those who are able can do some part to make our world a safer place today and do everyday...

we need to understand that this is a decision that affects us all and is of great concern to us all... the bullying ways have damaged us as a whole.. financially as well as emotionally... we need to send these kids a clear message that there is an alternative to violent thinking and action...

stepping off the pulpit now, ty..

I have not read all responses here ... but I think the original poster ((((shangrala))))))makes good points .... there is always a fine line between what is abuse and what is discipline .... if a toddler is about to put his/her finger into an electric socket a strong NO doesn't always work, you can't reason with a 2 year old or younger .... I tapped the back of their hand but not too hard ... I was hit by my father but not my mother a a small child ... I did slap my kids legs when they were younger ..... I admit I was frustrated and maybe nowadays would think again ..... this would be after reasoning, explaining, etc .... I dont condone (sp)violence . I say now I was wrong probably, at the time I was the adult and they were smaller than me ... but having said that they didn't grow into bullies and weren't affected by it .... sometimes children will take notice more from a tap on the legs ..... where do you draw the line? I would never slap them around the head or face, punch them, kick them, bruise them .... this is an argument that I believe will never be solved ....

I love my children and they have been loved, protected and nurtured, so I wouldn't call a tap bullying ... (I hope not anyway)

Sorry this thread seems to have gone off topic a little, I agree with the original poster that our children deserve respect and they need to be listened to ..... they do have a tough time these days. I have othing but praise for my two, seeing them do so well in this crazy, stressful world ... yes we do groan about them sometimes ... but we love them and respect everything they are striving for ....

Just my opinion, Jinny xoxoxoxoxoForgot to add, my kids have never been bullies themselves.... they treat people how they like to be treated themselves although my daughter is very opinionated (cant think where she gets that from )

(((Jinny)))) everyone is trying so hard to understand this cause the different schools of thought are dispersed thru society and the now way is replacing the old way...

even a little bit of damage is catastrophic... examples of things being unhealthy, just a little bit, include a little bit of e coli... a little bit of pneumonia.. a little bit of a stroke..... a little bit of misunderstanding...

a little bit can make a big difference to a loving, innocent child... a little bit of love goes a long ways further towards better health than a little bit of hitting...

i cant help saying what i know in my heart needs to be said for these kids... they are too little to be hit....