Adults losing touch with the youth

Sounds to me like we're pretty self-involved. What does that say to you, Shangrala?

I changed my thought .............hope its ok

lets ask the youth .............what they think........they are ones who know the answer

Have we as adults lost touch with them?
muffy

i ask that we consider this: A species which does not support its' own children will not survive.

First is forgiveness. Lets remember that our world as currently created is an inheritance of sorts. We each have been born into a time and situation not of our own making, with pressures and considerations that none of us have chosen.

The lessons of our parents have been handed off as 'the way.'

Tensions now are different and more serious than in our parents time. Awareness of environmental concerns requires a higher consciousness than anytime in known history.

We need to understand that physical aggression is harmful in all forms. Aggressive thoughts are harmful in all forms. Intent to harm is a harmful action. We need to civilize.

We can forgive the past and create the new future absent of blame, incrimination or shame. We can choose our new healthy direction now. We can create a destiny best suited for the health of all. I request that we begin on a common note... 'First, do no harm...' thank you for caring..

I just thought I'd post letting you all know I'm following this thread... and waiting with anticipation for you to arrive at the answers, whether you are asking the "right" questions along the way or not.

I'm not really sure there are any wrong questions here to be asked. There are many different answers from many different view points. I think it's as it should be. We all have different upbringings, different experiences, different lives, different thoughts etc. I don't think there will ever be a "one size fits all" answer to this situation.


sabby

Are you saying we are dissappointing you..or that we are doing the best we can?

I am certainly interested in your thoughts Sky...

Is that the right question?

Lenny

Well obviously someone didn't take it the right way.

I find it interesting, all the twists and turns...and yet... I am waiting... because there is still so much more to be said, once the individual items are in their places.

No one is disappointing me. And I hope everyone is doing their best always

I mean, others have said they are reading... right?

I'm reading along...following with great interest...!

~Shangrala

Sorry, I’m a late comer to the bunch.

I agree with a lot that Hyper says. Teens, or kids in general know different things than those of my generation or my parents and so on. My daughter is a brilliant young woman but can’t cook to save her life. I personally took over the preparation for family meals around 13. But they definitely have the advantage of having access to up to the minute information. As for the social aspect, my children mainly use the IM programs to keep up with family members that live all over the US. I’ve even got a facebook account as that is the one message system I know my daughter checks daily.

Children should be treated with respect, but they need to respect their elders; if not the person the job that they do. I would not tolerate my children treating their teacher with disrespect. I have always allowed my children to express their opinion on things in a respectful manner. In the end, I am the parent and therefore entrusted to be their first and most important teacher.

A swat on the bottom (spanking and beating are two terribly different things) is a very effective discipline tool. I remember each spanking I gave my children while they do not. In our house it was reserved for things that would cause them harm… running out into the street, attempting to touch something hot etc. This discipline was designed not to hurt them, but let them know that this behavior is non-negotiable. Spanking does have an expiration date, once they’re out of diapers the swat on the butt or hand is no longer effective. And make I want to make this crystal clear, NEVER strike a child in anger. I do not regret ever spanking my children. When we lived in Japan, the houses were not child friendly. Each room had a kerosene heater that had two settings, hot as hell or off, the stairs were straight up. My oldest could walk at 9 months, he never did crawl, and he was a climber! I never was able to find a baby gate that child couldn’t climb in under 3 seconds. So a slap on the hand taught him not to touch the heater, and a swat on the butt taught him to stay away from the stairs. My youngest twin was holding my hand at 3, walking from the hot tub to the table where our extended family was sitting decided to take his hand away and run and jump in the deep end of the pool. His butt was spanked and he was banned from the pool area the rest of the week. Children NEED boundaries. But we also praised praised praised! Children WANT to please. And of course lead by example as Lenny says. I’ve never subscribed to the “do as I say, not as I do” theory.

I’ve said it a million times and I’ll say it again, the time to teach children respect and proper behavior is before they know how to talk back. I now have two adults and two teens. And I have to say it is pretty rare for them to “act up”. The oldest is LD, ADHD and has ALWAYS been respectful and well behaved. There was a brief stint with a medication change that made him Mr. Hyde. The twins are still teens and have their moments, but we discuss what behavior was unacceptable and what they deem is an appropriate punishment. Together we decide what the punishment is and further, how can we attempt to avoid the problem the next time it should arise.

Another thing that I have been very honest with my kids about is that I am human, I do make mistakes and I apologize when I do. I’ve spend my life avoiding the mistakes of my parents, but I’ve make new ones of my own. I love and cherish my children, I believe in them and trust them. I enjoy the fact that they come to talk things over with me and share their day. BUT I am MOM first and friend second.

I think Sabby has an excellent point, we're all coming from different backgrounds etc. Our baggage from childhood follows us to adulthood. I'm sorry that so many of us have been raised in disfunctional families. Any punishment that has been doled out has been prefaced and followed by "I love you very much, but I will not accept this behavior" (age appropriate of course).

thanks to everyone for continuing this discussion peacefully... i'm doing my best to manage emotions that want to scream and yell for these kids but i know calm is whats needed and its a little hard for me.. sorry if i offend and my purpose in the forgiveness thread above is necessary because i intend to push forward in the kids defense..

what those of you who support punishment are asserting is that force, in this case, physical force, dominates....

in your world, unhealthy behavior is met and responded to with physical punishment when logic fails...

logic does not fail...

in your world, the small are undefended... intelligence is disregarded and physical force takes dominion...

in your world i have less need of intelligence and a greater need of physical ability..

in your world i require two pieces of equipment and little intelligence...

one piece is a shield, the other is a weapon.. i would require little else to survive... intelligence and insight would have no value whatsoever..

smacking a child to young for reason, you give the explanation that 'it hurts you more than them..' since they are too young for reason or defense, you justify their silence as acceptance...

who would imagine that a smack from another does not create a division? who can imagine that creating divisions in some way creates connections? what will the inner silence create?

can we use some logic here ?

a generation trained to attack will continue to attack....

do not further the darkness of ignorance... there are several alternatives to spanking.. do not teach children they are little, unimportant, weak, and an item that needs to be controlled...

someone mentioned that our children reflect the type of people we are inside... if we teach them health, they have better chances of being healthy... if we teach them pain, well..... if we teach them nothing then, well....

parents hold the keys to peace and freedom.... please teach your children to end violence...

forgive yourselves for the inherited past, embrace a more promising future.. teach kindness to others... love always..

As you all know and I have said over and over My son has PDD. Also
OCD. ALSo LD.
Life when he was young was so hard I can not even begin to tell you.
Never was there a manual for this...
Every day for him there was a new danger. I had to face every day with
calmness ((kindness to him))
That's how i reached him. Not that i am perfect as I am not, by any
stretch........
He could not speak. Could not understand basic dangers. I had to lead
him and show him.
Never ever did I choose to hit him. If i had it would have destroyed
him. That i know forsure in my heart.
He was so sensitive. He needed love to guide him. Not violence.
He himself was so angry at times threw his life had i showed it
back...it would have taught him it was ok..
Its not....at all........
I remember myself being young. As i said before on here. Being hit.
It totally backed me into a corner.
Made me feel like Dirt...Dirt is not a good place...nor is the corner.....
Children can be shown with out being hit...
I have two kids who have proved it to be true...
trust me there has been many issues...
There is just no other way for me.......No other answer for them..
They have grown up to be good adults...with never being hit by me...

may you each know ((you matter)))(((as all children do)))))))
muffy

(((((nowheretorun))))) I understand that you do not agree with my parenting style and your goal is to protect those that cannot speak for themselves and therefore I respect your opinion. There is very little reasoning with a curious toddler; nor would I in those circumstances. Like I said, some behaviors were non-negotiable.

I too have issues resulting from heavy handed “discipline” from my parents. I learned from their mistakes, I’ve never disciplined in anger, I have always made it know that I love them more than anything that it was the behavior that I did not like; that the behavior was bad, not the child. I am the only person on this planet that I trust to dole out corporal punishment or any punishment to my children. This did create problems in my marriage until my husband understood my point of view.

I’ve also mentioned that two of my children are adults and two are soon to be 16. I also raised a niece and nephew and two other teens that moved into our home. They are absolutely wonderful human beings. Their up bringing did not turn them into bullies, far from it. My husband and I take a great deal of pride in the people that they’ve become.

thanks A, i dont mean to cause any type unpleasant feelings for anyone here about this.. i read many of your posts and i have a lot of respect for your intelligence, so thank you for not taking my statements in a personal way to you or any other individual.. you've presented your own point of view reasonably and calmly, thanks for that just trying to hear what others thoughts are on this and its still a great thread about adults staying in touch with the youth..

i do understand the purpose of punishment and that it is a corrective action and that without correct behavior, we all would be far deeper in than we seem to be economically, emotionally, spiritually speaking.... so correct behavior and good health are common concerns for us all....

what i think we are talking about tho is behavior management ... maybe we can borrow some lessons from another area of mental health to help us with this?

we offer grown individuals opportunities at rehabilitation centers when they've made a grave social error, some of our most serious offenders receive an option for education without a prison sentence or more serious form of corrective action...

can we give the kids a reprieve?

Shangrala

I find it a little strange too. When it comes to our youth, it almost looks like the only "touch" we care about is control and "discipline." Maybe we haven't really lost touch - just our vision. Our children are not puppies.

Hi Shangrala,

In an effort to help your thread continue on track, I'm posting.



This is one area where I was wishing to read more about, opinions of members etc. So I'll say a little something.
One of this society's errant thinking is that "everyone's a winner." The forced impression that no one loses, everyone "deserves" a trophy or to feel good about him/herself no matter what (even a lack of effort) is indeed part of the growing problem. It eliminates competition to begin with, and removes ultimate goal setting. One doesn't have to think long before realizing the ramifications of such actions, or rather, inaction.
Children do have the right to be loved, listened to, share in developing their own best life. However, children -and that includes teenagers- don't know best. To give, give, give, without letting them fail at things, to evaluate their own efforts, to realize the "agony of defeat", to let them think they are the best at everything and "deserve" all the things they want, is not psychologically healthy.

Now, there is so much more to this one aspect of your OP, but maybe it will help truly ferret more really good thinking from our members here.

Sky - AHA! I KNEW we'd agree on something eventually. There's a great lesson to be learned in the "agony of defeat" - i.e., life doesn't always go our way, and we don't always win. It's a good opportunity for a kid to learn how to get back up on his/her own. Isn't that the ultimate goal for our children after we're gone? If we never let them fall, they will never learn this important lesson in life.

i wouldnt say there is a 'deserved' factor involved regarding respect, but a real extension of kindness to others is what i meant...

no one truly 'deserves' a thing.. it is the hope of our future and one of the healthier aspects of our characters which grants consideration and thoughtfulness to others for the times when our lives are not yet healthy or at a place of self created health, such as youth, or times of illness.. .....

edited to add:

when i meditate on this word 'deserve' i do one thing first.. break down the word.. 'de' serve.. what does that mean to us?

KathyM .. thank you for adding your thoughts... we are all conquerers in one way tho... we are breathing, some are not...

((((sky)))))))))))))))))))) In my eyes every child is a winner.((no one can change my mind on that)))) All children fail somewheres along the line. Its a part of life. We all mess up. But we are all still winners. We are still all worth all the love and listening ppl are willing to give...
I do think every teenager knows the "agony of defeat" I think every young child knows that. Every adult nows that feeling.
I agree giving children items to make them happy is not what does make them happy. They want our love . for us to listen to them. As we all do..
They want to know as adults we will be there for them even if they goof.....which they will do...
If you say to a child every time they come to us "wait a sec" they learn not to come to us.....
So many have been put off because life has gotten to fast for thier parents. Children and ppl Do deserve our full attention and love.........
We on the other hand as adults need to protect them as best we can.
That means with our love and understanding...........they need to be heard ..so many are hurting..............
(you matter sky)))))))))))))))))))))
They are the world..........the future.......our gifts .....our blessings......
muffy

((Muffy))

They should all be loved through good and bad, but I have a problem with making them all "winners." It would be like giving every student an A on their exams, regardless of how well they performed on the test. It may cause less strain on the teachers and on the kids while they are young, but it would make it that much harder for them in the real world when they are older. It would teach them to ignore their lessons in life - because they are already winners and deserve the highest grade.

Yes, muffy, every child, every person is a "winner." But requiring that everyone is seen as equally the same in every aspect of life is not healthy. To make it so that everyone receives an award, or no one does, is not healthy.

Children need to be shown that they don't need the trophy, they don't have to always have a ribbon, to prove that they are valued and important. By not receiving a physical reward shouldn't mean they are any less of a person. That's part of where society has gone wrong. Overprotecting our children is just as wrong as not protecting them. Life is difficult at times, and the world a hard place. Sending them out into it thinking they will always receive a reward for their efforts is just plain wrong, and psychologically damaging. imo

Sky - I couldn't agree with you more. One of the big lessons I teach my children is that if they've done their best they have succeeded, set backs are a part of life and how you deal with them is much more important than the stumbling block. My second child was very upset as a young child that we celebrated our eldest's Cs in mainstream classes as much as her As. He worked very hard to get those Cs, she was able to maintain an A average without ever bringing a book home. She finally understood when she had a class that was difficult for her (a home ec type class). She's been able to sew since she was 5, but the girl can't cook to save her life. She was frustrated with the class and upset with her grade. When I asked her if she did her very best she started crying and said yes, that was what was upsetting her so much. I told her that she should be proud of her effort and ignore the grade.

But back to the topic of the thread. I do not believe that I have lost touch with teens these days. I would not be a teenager these days if you paid me. They deal with many issues that we would have never dreamed about. I'm speaking mainly of the violence in schools. Of course we too faced bullies and ignorance, but school was a "safe" place. No matter what happened off of school grounds, it stopped once your foot hit school property. Bullies hid their activity from school staff. And when I was in school (and I've raised my children the same way) if you got in trouble in school, you were in twice as much at home. I live in a small town, and I'm amazed when I hear the things that happen on the school bus, assualts, sexual assaults etc.

I think there are a lot of people out there that do not parent their children that creates a problem for us all; which is probably why the thread took the turn to discipline.

Funny...but I have this stubborn memory that makes me smile..

It was those different color stars that my early teachers used to accentuate their comments on my work..

Everybody got them...each of us almost every time..

But they were different colors and sometimes even different sizes...

These were personal "gifts" along with their special comments about our work...The gifts were of encouragement..even if my work was less than they might expect...then it was a little green star...

But man,,,on those days when I "needed" a big blue star,,,I would work like heck,,and she would sometimes give me two...and a wonderfull..."Well Done Lenny,,I'm proud of you"..

Then that paper would hang off my desk.."accidentally" so that my other competitors would see just how much I was loved....

And of course the walk home had that extra skip or two as I had that full belly feeling of accomplishment that I could share with my MOM...

Somehow we should have found a way of keeping that star system throughout our lives...

To this day I believe my Higher Power has a little book of stars for Lenny and all of us and proudly puts one next to our name when we give Him that full belly feeling...

Lenny

great thoughts everyone

a reward system is really good until someone figures out a way to copy the reward and thus obtains more than the others... theres sneaky ways to do it without getting caught..

i like your spiritual reward system Lenny.. for me, its Brownie points i guess, but, in my more healthy moments i know that selfless service is where the real goodies are at

we do each need some sign of progress i believe, but making it a competition harms the non winners... thats why we all need to remember we have some personal value and avoid the unhealthy comparisons... we all succeed in some way always when we are kind and encouraging towards others...

this kind of attitude is what is healthiest for our inquisitive and learning, sometimes confused children also..

an atmosphere of caring and kind support is most beneficial when delivered by parents, and others in society assist along the way with small, random acts of kindness, and great acts as well...

we rarely reward spankers, but they make the news... they have had their place in society in our past when we were still learning about kinder treatment of others and the beneficial rewards of education...

there are now new and effective ways to approach societies ills... we cant let specters of shame and guilt derail us..

there are thousands of good teachers.. thank goodness for that!

(((kathyM)))))))))))))))) What i said was "all children In my eyes are winners" Meaning every child has self worth. Is a good loving person. That needs understanding. To me it had nothing to do with grades or awards. It has to do with each one. being A gift
As you know I have two children. One having PDD one who has no problems at college.((with grades))
Each one of them is and always will be a winner to me
Both have learned many lessons in thier lifes. Trust me...
My sons highest grade? Do I compare it to my daughters? never awwww
Do they both know real life..I think so...
Maybe I used the incorrect word ((winners)))
They are my children and i love them.
They are blessings........
All as I meant was kids are so very important. They all need our love and to be listened too.....and never ever to be made feel they are less..
Or can not come to us.......
You are a good person(( KathyM)))))