[Avant-garde]

There is something seriously wrong with the nature of my relationships with other people. I am desperately needy.

I have a strong need to be liked or at least respected and seen as competent in the eyes of others. Looking back throughout my life, my greatest achievements are the result of me working to impress someone. It's the one thing that truly motivates me. This isn't something I can just change; others tell me "Oh you just need to stop giving a **** about what others think." I feel like the strongest desire that exists in my soul is to be understood and appreciated by others.

The problem is made so much worse by the fact that I'm socially awkward, not so much because I feel particularly uncomfortable around people, but because I'm a slow thinker and poor conversationalist. To make matters worse, I'm incredibly self conscious, which further hurts my ability to have a normal conversation as I can't think well under the pressure of people waiting for a response. So, as a result, I've never had too many friends, and those I've had never really understood me. I love my family, but they also do not understand me at all. I'm almost 20, and despite being physically attractive, I've never had a girlfriend or even been in love. The relationships i've had in the past have been sufficient until now, but I feel acutely aware of how lonely and isolated I am in this world for the first time.

So, from the research i've done, I think I may either have AvPD or be a covert narcissist, the latter being more likely. As for the evidence for AvPD: I am hypersensitive to criticism, have deep feelings of inadequacy, and sometimes go out of my way to avoid social contact because I fear appearing awkward. In group settings my almost constant focus is on how I am being perceived by others. However, I don't feel it's a perfect match; I am willing to get into arguments and sometimes even seek them out if I am confident of my victory and I think the result will make me appear superior or competent, something I've heard people with AvPD almost never do. I also am usually able to overcome fear of embarrassment when it comes to trying new activities, although it isn't easy.

Covert narcissism mostly fits me nicely. I definitely have feelings of entitlement. I'm not sure if I consider myself superior to others, but I certainly try to (and definitely long to actually be superior and have great abilities), especially when it comes to intellectual matters. The one thing I have in life is fairly high intelligence, but I am even unconfident about that. Whenever I can't figure something out I feel I should be able to, I either fixate on the problem until I solve it, or rationalize my inability to explain it in a way that protects my image of my intelligence. I do this with very petty things. I thrive on positive attention and seek to attract the attention of others any way I am able, although this can be difficult because I usually avoid direct interaction. I revel, for instance, in appearing to be that quiet, mysterious kid in class who's so deep and intelligent that he can't be bothered with trivial small talk. I take good care that nobody finds out about my need to seem special and the act I put on. That would be devastating. I appear kind and thoughtful usually, but sometimes also arrogant and combative, especially when I am in a situation where I feel confident. When I am arrogant, its usually over arguments about ideas, which are a prime opportunity for me to show off my intelligence and depth without hurting anyone. Regarding fantasies, I fantasize about situations where I possess great competence, depth of soul, and morality, and they are all on display for the world to see. Things like stopping a school shooting, delivering an amazing refutation of somebody's points in a debate of great importance, or saving the world in one way or another.

Covert narcissists are supposed to lack empathy, however, and while I am incredibly selfish, I'm not particularly lacking empathy and don't want to hurt other people, other than in the deception I must perform to get them to see me the way I want. I'm also not angry and defensive; I don't get upset just because somebody disagrees with me or challenges my ideas. I'll feel humiliated if publicly defeated in an argument, but I won't lash out. I also don't think I'm subtly manipulative like I've read covert narcissists are, although I certainly can be a jerk to my family. I've also read that narcissists don't seek help themselves, although maybe I'm just seeking improvement as a means to end, as a means to being happier and becoming more able to get what I want. I don't like the idea of being a bad person, but it's seeming more and more likely that I am.

I am seeing a school counselor right now, but to be honest, she doesn't sound as if she understands the depth of my problem at all and hopes to fix my problem by just connecting me more, rather than addressing the cause of my poor connections. Sorry for the long post, but I was hoping somebody would be willing to read it and could help guide me where to go from here.

[hamster-bamster]

I really need to be sleeping, so just two points for now.

1) being physically attractive does make it easier to have a girlfriend but is not correlated with the ability to fall in love.

2) your verbal intelligence is obviously high. If you can afford wecshler testing, you can find out where your intelligence is in fairly objective ways, and stop guessing.

More later.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Avant-garde

The problem is made so much worse by the fact that I'm socially awkward, not so much because I feel particularly uncomfortable around people, but because I'm a slow thinker and poor conversationalist.

The disconnect between the language you use ("a poor conversationalist" is a very neat and sharp way to describe the problem, and the vocabulary is advanced) and the structure of your sentences and paragraphs and your subjective self-assessment is ABSOLUTELY STARTLING.

I do not know how long it took you to write the post. Maybe you took your time. So I cannot say from one post whether it is reasonable to believe that you are a slow thinker. You do not immediately strike me as someone who is a "slow thinker", but perhaps this is due to the difference between a written soliloquy and an oral dialogue. Is that right? Do you not know how to respond in an oral dialogue? Well, you do - you said that much...

On a different note, is it at all possible that you overwhelm people with your advanced and expansive vocabulary during oral interactions? While "a poor conversationalist" is sharp and neat in writing, and I thoroughly enjoyed reading your thoughts as expressed in writing, I can see myself being put off and a bit intimidated if somebody would talk to me like this while chatting casually. You need to quickly skim (no need to read in depth) this:

Register (sociolinguistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The part that is especially pertinent is in the beginning: "In linguistics, a register is a variety of a language used for a particular purpose or in a particular social setting."

So it could be that you do not have a natural ability to match the register you use to the social setting appropriately. If that is the fact (it is worth entertaining the possibility of your having this problem as a working hypothesis), you probably need to TALK LESS and LISTEN MORE. Also, use non-verbal expressions - nod to confirm that you are listening, keep an eye contact, etc. Try to notice how other people speak (they are probably much more relaxed than you are, possess the natural ability to match the register to the social setting appropriately, and do not hold themselves to your high standards of needing to excel at being a good conversationalist). Since you do not feel particularly uncomfortable around people (that is lucky), you should be able to ease into conversations by sticking to the role of the listener for now (you do need to make minimal utterances, though, in order to appear normal. "I see..." is one of such minimal utterances that comes to mind).

Being more of a listener than a talker, for now, would relieve some of the pressure on you:

1) "I can't think well under the pressure of people waiting for a response."
2) "In group settings my almost constant focus is on how I am being perceived by others."

So... let people talk. Many people really like to talk. Not everybody, but many people do. These people would not waste their time on "perceiving" you - they would rather have you listen to what they have to say.

Try those practical approaches - you need to start solving the practical problem, regardless of the personality labels.

[Avant-garde]

First of all, thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I do not know how long it took you to write the post. Maybe you took your time. So I cannot say from one post whether it is reasonable to believe that you are a slow thinker. You do not immediately strike me as someone who is a "slow thinker", but perhaps this is due to the difference between a written soliloquy and an oral dialogue. Is that right? Do you not know how to respond in an oral dialogue? Well, you do - you said that much...

Many of the thoughts in my post were just reformations of the ones that have been swirling around in my head the last few days; it's not like I could have sat down and produced all that in a single session of reflecting sitting in my chair.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

On a different note, is it at all possible that you overwhelm people with your advanced and expansive vocabulary during oral interactions?

This is almost certainly not the problem. I feel like I could be quite charming with regard to my delivery if only I knew what to say (and by that I don't mean what kind of thing to say; I always understand what is appropriate). I always speak using appropriate register, and although I do aim to impress a bit when I talk, I am sure I am not putting people off with the complexity of my speech. I should also note that I am far more adept at writing than speaking.

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

So... let people talk. Many people really like to talk. Not everybody, but many people do. These people would not waste their time on "perceiving" you - they would rather have you listen to what they have to say.

Try those practical approaches - you need to start solving the practical problem, regardless of the personality labels.

The conversations I do have usually already involve the other party or parties speaking much more than I do. I do appreciate your diagnostic attempts, but I really think you overestimate my abilities. My problems lies, I believe, in the way I think.

Every one of those silly personality type tests tell me I have a personality type considered very artistic and creative (INFP on the MBTI, 4w5 on enneagram). The one thing about my thinking that frustrates me more than anything else is my derivative thinking and lack of creativity. I literally cannot come up with interesting or insightful things to say in the context of the average conversation, especially when it comes to smalltalk. I think well within a framework (and so I write well academically), but for me to generate new ideas fast enough to have flowing conversation is something that has always seemed beyond me. Certainly the self-consciousness makes it worse, but it is hardly the root of the problem.

[hamster-bamster]

I see. Thanks, you have made it all very clear.

Look, you are almost 20 = over 18.

so you might have a PD or at least traits.

The best would be to have a neuropsychologist administer the Millon personality test - it is better than the tests you take online, for one, and the neuropsychologist would couple the test with an interview and write his/her interpretation of the results - something that you cannot obtain when you test yourself online.

Originally Posted by Avant-garde

There is something seriously wrong with the nature of my relationships with other people. I am desperately needy.

I have a strong need to be liked or at least respected and seen as competent in the eyes of others.

The problem is made so much worse by the fact that I'm socially awkward, not so much because I feel particularly uncomfortable around people, but because I'm a slow thinker and poor conversationalist. To make matters worse, I'm incredibly self conscious, which further hurts my ability to have a normal conversation as I can't think well under the pressure of people waiting for a response. So, as a result, I've never had too many friends, and those I've had never really understood me.

I'm about to sign off for the night, but I just wanted to let you know I relate to this. I'm terribly self-conscious, socially awkward, and needy.

Could you see a psychologist instead of a school counselor?

[Avant-garde]

Originally Posted by nevergoodenough

Could you see a psychologist instead of a school counselor?

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

The best would be to have a neuropsychologist administer the Millon personality test

I don't know if this is possible. My parents would have to find out about my feelings. Worse than that, I just realized none of that will help.

The more I really think about it, this really describes the core of my issue:

Originally Posted by Avant-garde

The one thing about my thinking that frustrates me more than anything else is my derivative thinking and lack of creativity. I literally cannot come up with interesting or insightful things to say in the context of the average conversation, especially when it comes to smalltalk. I think well within a framework (and so I write well academically), but for me to generate new ideas fast enough to have flowing conversation is something that has always seemed beyond me. Certainly the self-consciousness makes it worse, but it is hardly the root of the problem.

It describes my feelings of inadequacy and why I don't have healthy relationships than others.

And it is fixed. There is no hope, is there? I will never feel comfortable around other people. I will never be able to repair my self-esteem, because this is why my self esteem is damaged. I will never be able to have normal relationships with other humans. This is the first time I have ever felt despair.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Avant-garde

I don't know if this is possible. My parents would have to find out about my feelings. Worse than that, I just realized none of that will help.

The more I really think about it, this really describes the core of my issue:


It describes my feelings of inadequacy and why I don't have healthy relationships than others.

And it is fixed. There is no hope, is there? I will never feel comfortable around other people. I will never be able to repair my self-esteem, because this is why my self esteem is damaged. I will never be able to have normal relationships with other humans. This is the first time I have ever felt despair.

Do you develop online relationships, building on the strengths of your writing. Ability?

Believe me, I understand what that's like. This is coming from someone who constantly feels inadequate, has no friends, and can't even have a conversation with family: you're more capable of conversation than you think you are, but you have to be willing to at least try to get help. It might not work, but at least you would have tried.