[RiverX]

I'd like help/ experiences on this subject:

Safety / Integrity

The professional literature I've read on the Schizoid/ and avoidant personality disorder, says that the priority for these people in a relationship is SAFETY.
I am questioning this, and I think the underlying issue is INTEGRITY.

....... and if you have any of these tendencies, I'd appreciate hearing your experiences here becuase I'm doing some writing, and I'd like a) to see if what Im thinking echoes others' experiences and b), If anyone would like to contribute their quotes. ...

check this prof. quote first:

quote:

"“Where the mother’s libidinal investment is insufficient, that is, where there is neglect abuse, trauma, chronic misatunement, or persistent emotional pressure on a child to submit to a relational bargain primarily designed to serve the mother’s psychological needs as opposed to the child’s, a Disorder of the self will result................... with its own structural characteristics. “
p.37 'The Therapist's Guide to the Disorders of the Self' Masterson

......so, the problem being that the parent, is using the child for thier own unfulfilled needs, rather than fulfilling the child's needs to grow to a fulfilled independant person. This is a 'backwards connection'. What is confusing is that there is also often genuine feelings of love involved. But yet, within that love there is a sort of relational distortion.

This was how it was for me. So, for example in therapy, tho I have been diagnosed with schizoid disorder of the self, it isnt safety that I crave in a relationship, but it is integrity.

...so, for example, the last time I saw a T. she moved me on too quickly, before I'd finished dealing with a subject, this put her in charge of the pace and direction of the session, and that makes me feel she is taking power and initiative out of my hands - and why? what is her motive? doesnt she lack integrity if she mainly feels she wants to be in power, in charge of me - that's not the idea of therapy, it should be empowering.. so wheres the integrity here...

and thats how my issues go. Sure, there is an issue of safety for me here, but far more important is 'what is her intent', which is more to do with integrity, its deeper.

So, is there anyone who could contribute thier thoughts/ and experiences here.. ?

I'd love to hear from you, thanks ....

[Puffyprue]

Originally Posted by RiverX

I'd like help/ experiences on this subject:

Safety / Integrity

The professional literature I've read on the Schizoid/ and avoidant personality disorder, says that the priority for these people in a relationship is SAFETY.
I am questioning this, and I think the underlying issue is INTEGRITY.

....... and if you have any of these tendencies, I'd appreciate hearing your experiences here becuase I'm doing some writing, and I'd like a) to see if what Im thinking echoes others' experiences and b), If anyone would like to contribute their quotes. ...

check this prof. quote first:

quote:

"“Where the mother’s libidinal investment is insufficient, that is, where there is neglect abuse, trauma, chronic misatunement, or persistent emotional pressure on a child to submit to a relational bargain primarily designed to serve the mother’s psychological needs as opposed to the child’s, a Disorder of the self will result................... with its own structural characteristics. “
p.37 'The Therapist's Guide to the Disorders of the Self' Masterson

......so, the problem being that the parent, is using the child for thier own unfulfilled needs, rather than fulfilling the child's needs to grow to a fulfilled independant person. This is a 'backwards connection'. What is confusing is that there is also often genuine feelings of love involved. But yet, within that love there is a sort of relational distortion.

This was how it was for me. So, for example in therapy, tho I have been diagnosed with schizoid disorder of the self, it isnt safety that I crave in a relationship, but it is integrity.

...so, for example, the last time I saw a T. she moved me on too quickly, before I'd finished dealing with a subject, this put her in charge of the pace and direction of the session, and that makes me feel she is taking power and initiative out of my hands - and why? what is her motive? doesnt she lack integrity if she mainly feels she wants to be in power, in charge of me - that's not the idea of therapy, it should be empowering.. so wheres the integrity here...

and thats how my issues go. Sure, there is an issue of safety for me here, but far more important is 'what is her intent', which is more to do with integrity, its deeper.

So, is there anyone who could contribute thier thoughts/ and experiences here.. ?

I'd love to hear from you, thanks ....

i've been diagnosed with avoidant personality so with me safety first than both which means safety and integrity coz iam too sensitive and mostly people with schizoid or avoidant its extremely sensitive even for anyone else its nothing so both its important ..i hope it could helps...

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by puffyprue

i've been diagnosed with avoidant personality so with me safety first than both which means safety and integrity coz iam too sensitive and mostly people with schizoid or avoidant its extremely sensitive even for anyone else its nothing so both its important ..i hope it could helps...

...can you give an example of something that has stopped you from feeling safe in a T. relationship?

[Puffyprue]

Originally Posted by RiverX

...can you give an example of something that has stopped you from feeling safe in a T. relationship?

well i know for sure sometimes i had irrational thought so at that times comes every little thing could hurt me sometimes after meet my T iam feeling guilty and sad coz its feels like all This personality disorder was my faults ...its kind a hard to explain and let me think first......for example on my therapy iam crying suddenly and my T saids u cry without no reason and she asked its often happened to u? and the way she asked the question make me not comfortable...something like that

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by puffyprue

well i know for sure sometimes i had irrational thought so at that times comes every little thing could hurt me sometimes after meet my T iam feeling guilty and sad coz its feels like all This personality disorder was my faults ...its kind a hard to explain and let me think first......for example on my therapy iam crying suddenly and my T saids u cry without no reason and she asked its often happened to u? and the way she asked the question make me not comfortable...something like that

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you.
So, I imagine you thought if that happens that maybe she's saying like - 'you've got no reason to cry so what are you doing it for?'

..........tho she may be asking - 'do you cry for no reason? (because that is how it happens with some people, - so, like you need to know where she's coming from..... ?

[Puffyprue]

Originally Posted by RiverX

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you.
So, I imagine you thought if that happens that maybe she's saying like - 'you've got no reason to cry so what are you doing it for?'

..........tho she may be asking - 'do you cry for no reason? (because that is how it happens with some people, - so, like you need to know where she's coming from..... ?

yea u right it sounds like that to me...possibly thats coz my irrational thought....

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by puffyprue

yea u right it sounds like that to me...possibly thats coz my irrational thought....

I dunno, its worth checking it out, T.s can do odd things sometimes .......

[cafegrrrl]

My dx is schizoid. And, for me, i think it's an issue of safety and maybe one or 2 other things I can't put into words.

I do know my counselor is getting frustrated with me because I can't talk. I knew it before she even voiced the fact. I think i can agree with what puffyprue said about being "sensitive" too, to an extent. I think i'm more sensitive than most when it comes to picking up others' moods and attitudes towards whatever. Then again, I've always been an avid people watcher so that probably plays into the sensitivity factor.

I've gone off track and am just rambling now...i haven't slept much in the last few days.

I guess I'd throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth

[ECHOES]

For me it is trust. Anxious attachment and trust. Nothing is constant, or appears to be constant. Everything is suspect including motives.

Stemming from anxious attachment. Attachment needed for development but not able to be trusted because the attachment was insufficient, inconsistant. and motivated not by my needs.

I've had a lifetime of insecurity, very shallow relationships, deep loneliness, emptiness, hopelessness.

With T, it is sometimes wonderful, sometimes very anxiety-provoking. I often project and am suspicious, think she has hidden motives (yet when we talk about it I don't understand how I could think that of her, she is not malicious or retaliatory, etc.), I am afraid she's going to kick me out (although that gets better with each crises we get through together).

Yeah, for me it is trust. We know this and we know it takes time and that it isn't linear but has ups and downs in it's development. When it's there, it feels good, and the relationshiop with T feels good, comfortable, close.

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by cafegrrrl

My dx is schizoid. And, for me, i think it's an issue of safety and maybe one or 2 other things I can't put into words.

I do know my counselor is getting frustrated with me because I can't talk. I knew it before she even voiced the fact. I think i can agree with what puffyprue said about being "sensitive" too, to an extent. I think i'm more sensitive than most when it comes to picking up others' moods and attitudes towards whatever. Then again, I've always been an avid people watcher so that probably plays into the sensitivity factor.

I've gone off track and am just rambling now...i haven't slept much in the last few days.

I guess I'd throw in my 2 cents for what it's worth

thanks for the 2 cents.
I've also got a schizoid Dx. And the sensitivity to go with it, lots do.

Cafegrrl - if you would like to add another cent or 3, only if you'd like to, - if I asked you-
" if you could put those things into words, even if the words were imperfect, what would they be? "

how'd that be?

thanks for response...

r.

[cafegrrrl]

This is probably going to go off track...but i guess for me it's about being trapped, drowning inside myself or like sinking into quicksand....I don't know what that's about for me yet

Originally Posted by RiverX

thanks for the 2 cents.
I've also got a schizoid Dx. And the sensitivity to go with it, lots do.

Cafegrrl - if you would like to add another cent or 3, only if you'd like to, - if I asked you-
" if you could put those things into words, even if the words were imperfect, what would they be? "

how'd that be?

thanks for response...

r.

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by cafegrrrl

This is probably going to go off track...but i guess for me it's about being trapped, drowning inside myself or like sinking into quicksand....I don't know what that's about for me yet

..........I dont know what that is for you either. But it still hasnt failed to amaze me, how, when theres the same character structure, how paralel the experiences are, even the words we use to describe them, .

When I was in relationships with T. one that was going terribly wrong, I used the phrase: "Im sinking into the mire"

.,....... she tried for me, but couldnt understand.

(That's why I long to have other schizy people to work with)


'quicksand'....
'mire'..... ............what is this? ? coming from what? ........

? being pulled to something inside ourselves? ?into a relationship witht the other that could swallow up whats good ('quicksand') / or contaminate as well as swallow up ('mire')

if you're willing to continue..... would you like to share more?

r.

[cafegrrrl]

I'm willing to continue...but continue what?

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by cafegrrrl

I'm willing to continue...but continue what?

...well, I think this is what has confounded me so many times in my relating to others -

for me, that you have said
"..into quicksand"
and I have said
"into the mire"
signal something important and valuable to investigate, as identifying with others, and the search for a deeper understanding I feel is the path to progress, growth and healig.

... but I guesss this isnt the way it strikes others....?

r.

[Beth1957]

Originally Posted by RiverX

...well, I think this is what has confounded me so many times in my relating to others -

for me, that you have said
"..into quicksand"
and I have said
"into the mire"
signal something important and valuable to investigate, as identifying with others, and the search for a deeper understanding I feel is the path to progress, growth and healig.

... but I guesss this isnt the way it strikes others....?

r.

I too feel that this is an important insight, but really don't know where to go with it. Despite mulling it over...

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by Beth1957

I too feel that this is an important insight, but really don't know where to go with it. Despite mulling it over...

Hi Beth,
What are your experiences?
.. I think, if you just feel like talking, or sharing experience, it can lead to a different feeling. (if you're drug- free I guess).

[cafegrrrl]

Originally Posted by RiverX

...well, I think this is what has confounded me so many times in my relating to others -

for me, that you have said
"..into quicksand"
and I have said
"into the mire"
signal something important and valuable to investigate, as identifying with others, and the search for a deeper understanding I feel is the path to progress, growth and healig.

... but I guesss this isnt the way it strikes others....?

r.

I see what you're getting at...that the same/or similar terms are used by people to describe something that one wouldn't understand unless they too have experienced it....like it probably is more than just a coincidence that so many use similar terms and descriptions for it, and perhaps it can be used in diagnostic material, or maybe it can help docs / scientists discover what it is that causes others to feel this way (if it's a biological or physiological thing that is)....

I just don't understand what other types of things to write about or describe...i am probably going to be putting up a post later that may have to do with what you're looking for

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by cafegrrrl

I see what you're getting at...that the same/or similar terms are used by people to describe something that one wouldn't understand unless they too have experienced it....like it probably is more than just a coincidence that so many use similar terms and descriptions for it, and perhaps it can be used in diagnostic material, or maybe it can help docs / scientists discover what it is that causes others to feel this way (if it's a biological or physiological thing that is)....

I just don't understand what other types of things to write about or describe...i am probably going to be putting up a post later that may have to do with what you're looking for

actually, NO!, not for professionals and diagnosis, its more a human to human thing, like, because of being inside the experience, rather than seeing it from outside as profs do.
its the shared experience that can make the connection to others that is otherwise often cut off for schizy people.

so, the benefit is that its possible to get healing in this way, as opposed, for example to having drugs. and then with understanding, we can help others who deal with the same issues, thats the idea I'm coming from.

r.x.

[cafegrrrl]

oh, duh...gotcha

[Athirson]

I'm avoidant. I add my voice to the previous poster who mentioned the issue of trust. Which I don't possess to any significant degree as to anybody.

As for T., I've long since given up any hope or expectation that there is anything T. could do for me. I went with T. for four years and got nowhere. I've accomplished a lot more on my own. I'm not the least bit convinced that T. can do much to treat personality disorders.