I suck, things suck....

Today I had to face a really tough meeting of my peers, I planned in my mind how I could do it respectfully and kindly while advocating for some change that I saw needed to happen. I was terrified, but I spoke up and it was going well.

Then bam....someone has their say and turns the discussion on to me specifically, attacking someone else in the group for their treatment towards me over the last couple of weeks......and I can not control myself. I started crying, I was terrified, I wanted to run away, I DID NOT WANT THIS TO BE DISCUSSED in front of everyone. I felt like a cornered animal, as I can imagine the other lady did also.....she became aggressive(part of the problem) and I just crumbled.

I reacted, I wasn't able to respond from an adult wise mind perspective....I got defensive and said what should have been said in private. What happened was exactly what I had been trying to avoid.......

I now I just look stupid, childish, petty, weak, disrespectful. I am soo ashamed, and I ought not be...because I was standing up for others that had been treated badly, and myself also.....and because someone forced an issue out in to the open, I felt forced in to a position I didn't want to be in.

I don't know, I am really p issed off at myself for not being able to control my fear response, for not being able to maintain calm and perspective....for acting badly. I am just soo ashamed, and humiliated right now it is awful. I hate having this thing that feels like a curse! I want to have myself back

And I feel bad for whinging about my deficits, why can I not just get over stuff like this? I should be able to just stand up for myself, say what needs to be said and not get all emotional.

I wish I could pinpoint exactly why I react like this....I didn't used to. I would become hard and cold and shoot someone down, take not crap from anyone....now I don't have that ability.

I want to be kind, and not hurt others....and so I end up more hurt......I should just go back to being a hard cold unfeeling witch!

I think you are being too hard on yourself (as we know, it's part of the whole ball of wax of CPTSD). This situation has been brewing for a while, like a storm coming, and, while you knew how you wanted to handle the situation, you can't hold yourself responsible for someone else throwing a curve ball. Groups of people are hard to deal with in most circumstances, because everyone has different ideas, different agendas, and they bring their own personalities and baggage into it. Add in the tension of being assigned to a group with a lot riding on it (your grade), and it's understandable.

You see, the thing is, none of us here think anything like "oh, that horrible, stupid Jane, she blew it". Only you are feeling that, from an outsider's perspective, you were being human, doing the best you could under the circumstances, and being too hard on yourself.

Jane, I am sorry you had a meeting with your peers and your peers did not respond in a predictable way so you could control the way that meeting went. It got confrontational, and it triggered you and you got emotional and are now frustrated that you could not control your emotional response. That is not your fault Jane, when someone has PTSD their emotional part of the brain is more sensitive and producing the chemicals to help to control that is harder. Your disappointment/embarrassment with how you reacted is "very common" with people who struggle with PTSD, especially if the person has a history where they were "invalidated" and "unheard" or treated as though their feelings and challenges were not important.

Jane, I have that challenge myself, especially with the fact that I saw something very important to me get badly damaged and I was so invalidated for struggling with that loss, not only that but my life has been nothing but addressing that same challenge for seven years now. I noticed that if I am in a discussion about a troubling topic, I often broaden the scope and point out many different areas where a degree of the situation takes place and how different people react. Often that can turn into expressing how I have personally experienced these situations and the reason I do that is because of my history and I seem to have a tremendous need to say "I know this is true because I experienced this first hand".

What you have expressed is that while you can stand up for others and defend them, you really struggle when it comes to defending yourself. The reason that happens is that you are well aware of how certain things can "hurt" but in your experience, when you experienced that hurt, "it was dismissed, and invalidated". You wanted that conversation to be controlled in such a way where "your" personal experience of being disrespected or somehow violated by this person did not have to be something you had to defend. When that debate turned in that direction you struggled emotionally, you cried right? You hated that because your pattern of interaction is to "avoid" that and you have always been that way. Other people in that group were "validating" that you got hurt somehow too, and you struggle when that happens because you are not used to others seeing "you" and "your challenges" in situations. And for you to "include" yourself in being made uncomfortable by this woman is a risk, it's a risk because of your history where you were not allowed to "have your own challenges emotionally". "I" struggle with that too. And there have been times where I snuck myself and my personal challenges into a conversation and when I did that "I was wrong and don't do that OE". We are "allowed" to talk about something that is a challenging subject but "please do not talk about how you have been personally affected by that topic".

We live in a society where we are not supposed to express "our personal challenges", we must communicate an opinion about something without "our own personal experiences or feelings" added in. We are told that is it "wrong" to expect others to see "us and our own challenges" in something, and you described this challenge when your husband was struggling with cancer and the conversation was ALL ABOUT HIM, and YOU WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE YOUR OWN FEELINGS ABOUT IT.

When someone is struggling with PTSD "and" has a history where their own personal challenges were "inappropriate" to express, whenever these scenarios come up where the conversation pushes the "you got hurt too" in the picture, yes, that is a big challenge, and what I see in YOU and ME and MANY OTHERS is the emotional response is CRYING and then feeling like "we" all did something wrong and WHY CAN'T WE JUST NOT FEEL LIKE WE USED TO BE ABLE TO DO? Yes, why can't I just be a witch or have the ability to "restrain" my emotions? What is so profound to me Jane is that it is SO BAD that the person struggling can even get suicidal over it.

Jane, what you experienced in that group discussion were other people that are actually more like you in that they are "aware" of how others including "you" were negatively affected by this one person. That overwhelmed you, because you have always had to function "without putting your own hurts" into the conversation. And if we cannot interact that way "apparently" we are "crazy".

All you have to do is visit the psychotherapy forum or the abuse forum or the relationship forum, even this forum and you will hear many people expressing how hard it is for them to EXPRESS THEIR EMOTIONAL CHALLENGES OR HISTORY OF ABUSE. And if someone does come forward with a challenge MANY TIMES they end their story/description of a challenge with I AM SORRY.

How "SAD" is that Jane? You are in a scenario where your challenge has been validated by others and you "cry" and feel that is "wrong" well IS THAT RIGHT??? Would you tell your own son NOT TO FEEL or THAT HE IS WRONG TO FEEL?

People struggle and break down ALL THE TIME, because THEY CAN'T SEEM TO JUST NOT "FEEL" Jane. This entire site is LOADED WITH PEOPLE WHO SUFFER THAT WAY.

When someone is problem solving, for example concentrating on a math problem, their brain is all about that and is disconnected from the emotional part of the brain. Many high functioning people are people who have talents when it comes to math, they love it WHY? Many people who have high functioning Asperger's or autism do well with problem solving and math and do not do well with "emotional challenges". When their environment turns to "emotional challenges" many who have Asperger's or are on the Autistic spectrum struggle and often react in anger, frustration, and even experience "rages" because that is a part of their brain that they struggle to make sense out of, it is very hard to figure out with the "logical problem solving part of the brain". When these individuals are helped to better mix into society, what they learn are proper "affects" of emotions, somewhat like a math equation, "sad feelings equal this expression, politeness equals this action, etc, etc.

When someone has PTSD, their emotional part of their brain is constantly "active" and they have to work BACKWARDS, differently then a brain like Asperger's that approaches that part of the brain as though it is an equation. And interestingly people who struggle with this challenge, often have "anger and rages" much like those who have Asperger's.
Or, what is experienced is what is called a PTSD cycle.

When children are very young, they are trying to understand that part of their brain too. They don't understand it and can have crying jags, or temper tantrums, or just get confused and "get clingy". Often parents respond to these challenges by thinking the child is argumentative or not "listening or paying attention" and they also tend to just bark orders at their children and don't "engage" the child. Often children are not heard, and not engaged and don't experience "empathy" given to them, so they struggle to form that kind of "reaction" towards others or they grow up feeling they are somehow not supposed to have "their feelings", but instead are supposed to just "obey and follow along" with the opinions and orders of their parents. Yes, they can go a long way of avoiding their own feelings and learn to use the problem solving part of their brains as that disengages from the emotional part of the brain and they can gain some sense of empowerment by "learning and excelling" in some way with the problem solving part of their brain.

When something "traumatic" takes place however, that changes everything. That presents "emotional needs" and these needs are pretty profound and not really connected to the "problem solving part of the brain" either. If this is not addressed correctly right away, it gets worse, and we have now identified the warning signs to pay attention to when someone experiences a "trauma" so we can encourage them to talk out their emotional challenges, get as much validation as needed, and help them engage their problem solving part of the brain.

Many people who have PTSD, do struggle with having their "problem solving" part of the brain take over so they can turn off their "emotionally disrupted" part of their brain. Often they complain of struggling to read and learn somehow, and without realizing it, they may "avoid" using that part of the brain because their emotional part of the brain that also contains "empathy" is so challenged. Many complain of feeling "afraid, unworthy, and wish they could be like they used to be, where they "could" turn off that part of the brain, or switch over to using the problem solving part of their brain more that disconnects better when processing, from the emotional/empathic part of the brain.

If someone gets the right "support" when these challenges take place, they "can" make gains Jane. This is actually "why" empathy is part of human nature Jane. If a person is going to work with others who struggle or even work with children they HAVE TO HAVE EMPATHY Jane. When your own son thought about how you liked having his stuffed animal because it helped you feel comforted and you slept and relaxed better, he decided to put that animal in your bed ALL BY HIMSELF, he was learning about EMPATHY towards OTHERS. And that was a very "moving" experience for you, with a twinge of "guilt" though for you Jane. That is something you need to slowly "heal and repair" though Jane. That is going to take you some time because when you grew up, your mother did not provide that for you. And most likely, your mother did not get that either as from what you describe of her, she commands you and your sister to create a presentation that is supposed to please "her" and neither of you can be relaxed around her. So now, in this confrontation, when your feelings were "recognized" you got upset. You can "empathize" with others, but you feel it is wrong if others empathize with "you".

This is a challenge for everyone I have come across that struggles with "complex" PTSD. But, I have also seen this in others that may not have PTSD, but have some other kind of challenge.

"Healing" takes time ((Jane)), self care, patience, is important. You are not going to be perfect in these scenarios, but you can "learn" from them when they happen. You are making an effort to engage your learning and problem solving part of your brain, these emotional challenges will come up, it will take you time to work through them "slowly" so you can function better.

I struggle with this "constantly" myself especially in this ongoing scenario I am dealing with. From the moment I witnessed something that profoundly affected me, so many people have expected me to "turn off" something I could not "turn off". It has been exhausting for me in so many ways, ways I never imagined experiencing too. So I hear you.

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

Jane, I prefer the company of men because they dont do this drama. But lately I am ioftenn the company of unfamiliar women. High drama swirls around me. I dont like it. I dont understand it. As it swirls around me it must be about me and i dont know how to prevent it. Im not the one acting like a clown. What does seem to be in my power is to repair and maintain relationships. I'm grateful for a good education with some good coursework in communications and management. I feel embarrassed and vulnerable. I feel very awkward. Im learning to say, "i dont know what happened. I dont know why that happened. Perhaps we could talk about how we can be comfortable moving forward"

Ive learned to say, "not good enough". Its very difficult. But when its necessary, not to say ir is a lie. Ot is lying and lying disrupts communication.

Women triangulate. Ive found women do more talking about me than to me. I dont like it. I wont change it where its entrenched in organisational culture. What I can do is make sure the important people to me get some face time and talk time with me, and that I remain aware that in gossip culture anything i say about anyone, or anyone's action or negligence will reach her ears in much distorted form so better to speak directly to her.

In your shoes I would apologise to the people who were inconvenienced by your behavior or actions and express a wish to form a better working relationship. I dont know how that would work. Im.waiting to see if it works for me.

I would also get real honest with myself a bout whether I was breaking down, or manipulating. We all know that sometimes the catch in the voice or the softly falling tears are as carefully chosen as our words. Be conscious about what you do.

Johnny & OE thanks....maybe I am too hard on myself and maybe I will learn from this experience also. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Teacake...thanks also. An interesting perspective. I wonder if the reflection in the final paragraph you wrote is more pertinent to yourself? For me I am quite clear, if I am unable to control tears, fight to stop them and find myself shaking and having difficulty with my breathe that I am experiencing an emotional flashback response......certainly not manipulating. But thanks for offering up an alternate view.

Jane C~

I see you have support and I’m barely supporting myself at the moment so I just browse the threads and say enough to be a lurker and not a creeper. I wanted to tell you a story. It is nothing to do with yours I hope I don’t startle you with my parenting. i just want to tell you because your thread title made me think of it and I am hoping it will lighten both of our moods.

A few years back, my son was home on leave, from the marines, and he was feeling strong in that brotherhood. We were riding down the road and I can’t recall what we were talking about but he laughed and said, “you suck.”

My son never talked to me like that and I was flabbergasted so it took me a second to regroup and then I looked at him and said, “The real question is do i spit or swallow” and he freaked out like a kid that just caught his parents groping each other. He let me know we can never be friends.

In any case~ thanks for the memory hope you're feeling better soon.

Parley I am sorry you are struggling so. I send you kind thoughts of support, and a , if that is ok. I hope you feel better soon too.

Your story made me laugh! I can imagine your sons horrified expression hahaha.... funny in a cute way only a Mum could understand