[MotownJohnny]

A couple of interesting things happened yesterday. My first experiment in "brainspotting". We found calm places and anxious places in my field of vision. It was kind of weird, but it was noticeable.

The really interesting thing - he had me move my eyes to different positions and talk about the thoughts that came into my head. At one point, one of my really bitter childhood memories came into my mind, I told him about it, talked about it, and moved on.

It is dramatically less vivid in my mind today ... I'm almost a little freaked out by that ... maybe it's psychsomatic, maybe it's the placebo effect, maybe the brainspotting thing really works. I dunno -- all I know is the image from age 5 has now receded a lot further back in my mind, it isn't as "palpable" as it was yesterday. Weird, huh????

Also talked about dissociation - he seems to think I do it a lot more than I am aware - I always viewed it kind of as passing out or lapses of total memory, where you would have "missing time" or whatever ... but he explained that it's on a continuum, from daydreaming to "zoning out" to complete dissociation like DID ("multiple personalities" for those old enough to remember 'Sybil'). I do have these moments where things look "off" - the light, the landscape, the lay of the land, the appearance of familiar surroundings. I always felt it was something related to the "silent" migraines I have from time to time - no pain, but significant visual distortions, bright, bright chartreuse green auras that often make it hard to see, and blind spots/black holes. But he thinks I'm temporarily dissociating a bit - if I'm interpreting this right, that is. Again, I dunno. I need to do more research - I so far have just looked up the wikipedia entry, which isn't that detailed.

Finally, an interesting comment about bipolar - he confirmed what my current psychiatrist said - his comment was that bipolar is so over-diagnosed now that it is essentially meaningless. He said that is partially the fault of the insurance system, because they DO provide more coverage for certain conditions, and bipolar is one of those and the range of symptoms is so wide that almost anyone with some kind of MH issue may fall into the category when symptoms are viewed superficially. Like I did!

[Open Eyes]

Good Mowtown, thanks for sharing, and also sharing about how bipolar is misdiagnosed too.
I think that it is important that is understood and you are validated for that too because I know that diagnosis frightened and confused you which in your condition should not have taken place.

When you talk about these blind spots or disassociative spots, I have them too. Remember when you talked about missing your appointment and how that rattled you, but fortunately they were nice about it? Well, I don't get that and even when I try to explain "I did not notice or I forgot, or I lose track of time as I do", I find that I get "punished" and all that does in reinforce whatever I struggle with in that negative area.
When I tried that new medication, it made that worse and I lost track of big chunks of time as well as it made me very ill too. That is why I am fearful of medications tbh.

Thanks for sharing, I will have to talk to "my" T about this therapy.

((Hugs))
OE

[SkyWhite]

Your post was very interesting Motown. Especially the brain spotting. I'm discovering I dissociate a lot as well. Especially since the flashbacks and memories started. Sometimes it's really bad, but I never lose track of time like with DID. Things look and feel weird and I have trouble with my memory. last week I was walking my dog and everything felt "dream like" and I had to keep reminding myself where I was and what I was doing. The extreme cases are when my whole environment becomes distorted and my body feels distorted and/or in the wrong place, like I'm sitting next to myself. Very weird.

[gma45]

Thanks for this thread. I have had those silent migraines for years, I was never sure what they were about. I used to get them when I was around florescent lights a lot. Haven't had one in a while (knock on wood) I have been dealing with the "dream like" state, it never lasts very long. I would be real interested to know more about the brain spotting, I will ask my t when I see her also. Plus do some research myself. It seems this time getting help for my depression no one tells me much seems to blame it on just getting old ,which I don't feel. I would really like some answers. Thanks again.

[MotownJohnny]

Well, in my mind the jury is still out on the dissociation question - I just need to know a lot more about it. No question when I get the "dreaded green spot " it's a migraine, grateful I don't have actual head pain, but the bad ones cause my to get nausea, shiver, and break out in a cold sweat. Just not sure when I have lesser visual distortions if it is a lesser degree silent migraine or somehow emotional/mental.

[MotownJohnny]

I need to write about Friday's session (I am going to see him on Thursdays and Fridays). It was all the Brainspotting thing. And I left there feeling like I had been hit by a freight train. It was all just alternating between good and bad memories, whatever came into my mind, discussing them and paying really close attention to my physiological responses, breathing, any pain I might feel, anxiety level.

Last thing, he asked me how the session made me feel
-and to respond with first thing that popped into my mind - I blurted out "please don't let me die" - I can't believe I did that now, it seems pretty desperate. I guess I am desperate if I am so emotionally overwhelmed that I am actually envious of Robin Williams final act of his own desperation.

[Open Eyes]

Mowtown, while it can be strange to learn about the different areas where you struggle, in all honesty most people do have these spots when they were challenged in some way and learned to work around in their lives. Robin Williams for example, while he said he had supportive parents, he did endure bullying because he was smaller than the other boys in school. I am sure that is something he had to contend with for a while and imo he found ways to overcome that where he could be larger/bigger/bolder and he developed that by using comedy. It is my opinion, from what I have learned by "listening" to other people in my life, that people carry these "hurt" parts from their childhoods all their lives and they tend to bargain with themselves emotionally in private ways that people around them don't realize about them. But, if you really pay attention you can get so you can see the different kinds of compensations in people. A lot of the different "stars" are actually quite small if you get a chance to see them in person. Frank Sinatra who seemed so large on screen, was a really small man in person and when he was younger he was also very thin and not very manly at all. Danny Devito, he is a really "small" man but he can burst onto the silver screen with such a presence too.

One of the programs I loved to watch was the programs where I got to see the history/biography of people who became famous, be it presidents or celebrities or successful people of some kind. We have this ideal of what life should be like where one finds the perfect match, gets married and lives happily ever after, however, while these individuals play these parts, rarely do they actually live them IRL. And a lot of these larger than life individuals had something very challenging happen to them in their childhoods too. Consider Kennedy for example, he was a very sickly child, lived his life in constant pain and had to constantly cover that up. His father had many affairs, so did he.

For myself, because I had no choice but to be there while my older brother endured so much abuse on that school bus every day and I had to endure that from the minute I first stepped foot on that bus at such a young age, I learned from a very young age a lot about that "hidden" pain that takes place. I got to know my father and what that "hurt" part in him was, I got to know my mother and in that I got to learn about her hidden childhood hurts too. I also got to see how they both compensated for these "hurt" parts too, compensated and ways they didn't really realize.

Honestly Mowtown, I really think there is a "kind of" complex PTSD in a lot of people and all that has to take place is some kind of event that rocks that inner world so much that the person's way of creating that private balancing act of "bargaining" gets very rattled and the person struggles like we struggle. Actually, you mentioned how you began to notice that when you took some time and read a lot of the different posts here in the PC forums. Yes, while there are a lot of different labels, the bottom line is a lot of people had needs that were not met for some reason and these people struggle with "how to bargain" with these challenged areas where they can gain a sense of "living their lives with some kind of personal balance". We have our childhoods and the rest of our lives we are in some way trying to recover from whatever it was that we did not get in our childhoods, whatever that "missing part" was that we were always told to not show others and instead put on this public image that presented the "everything is good" in our home environment.

Robin Williams did struggle with "anxiety and depression" most of his life and while he was very gifted in how he was extremely creative in "bargaining" with that deep "hurt" that presented him with that part that "hurt", he never really "healed" that hurt. It has been stated that he "may" have had bipolar that challenged him, but is that really "true"?
As you have learned first hand with PTSD, what takes place is a kind of "racing thoughts" and a kind of "hyper aware", and that can "look like" manic episodes of bipolar but is not.
And IMHO, from what I witnessed and also experienced first hand with "bullying" in my own childhood, that can really create a "deep injury" in a child. While children can be quite resiliant and thrive in spite of some big challenges, it doesn't mean these deep injuries actually "go away".

For myself, I learned this from a very early age and a lot of people have told me that I seem to have some kind of "gift" for seeing these hurt parts and helping different people or children and "how do I just know"? Well, while I do see it, and have tried to be helpful and understanding, as you can see in my thread, I have struggled between being understanding and yet getting hurt. While my husband can be a really "nice guy" and he has worked hard and we do have things because of how hard he worked, he has been a big challenge to live with. And I definitely have this deep inner challenge of trying to appreciate the efforts he has made to be sober and do better and be a better person, yet he still has this part of him that hurts and challenges me. It has only been this year that I finally had help with understanding what this "challenging" part means. I don't want to make is seem like people with "compulsive ADHD" are bad or toxic people either. But, I wish I had been able to have help with that part, I wish "he" had been able to have help with that part too. What I have talked about in my thread is how I have had to deal with that kind of challenge in someone "all of my life" too. The truth is, both of these individuals were "exhausting" to live with. Both of these individuals pretty much were in constant motion until they crashed and fell asleep, yet try sleeping next to one, it's hard because even in their sleep they tend to thrash around.

While I opened up and talked about it in my thread, I have felt like get it out, let it out, but don't let this person see it and it is important to try to hide it so this person doesn't somehow get hurt by the wrong person seeing it and stigmatizing him. It took me a while to explain all this to my T and my T wonders how I manage to work all this out in my brain. He said to me one day, "Wow, that was a lot for you to manage, how on earth did you manage, and get through all of what you have shared?". Well, it was nice that for the first time "ever" someone could "see me", yet at the same time his reaction scared me too. The truth is, I really struggle with managing that challenge now. I guess the reason "why" I struggle "now" is that I can see how "fragile" my husband is and when I see that it frightens me now because I am not as "strong" as I used to be. My T has told me that my husband should really be getting help for this challenge, and my fear is that if he does get that help, everything may just come crashing down and I am not "strong" enough to pick up the pieces if it does. And I had already seen him totally crash once and just go to bed and not function for over a month and how I only managed that financially because I had managed to get a hurt horse to heal enough to be able to sell so I could pay our bills. I was very scared when I went through that, had no therapist to help me and I was really struggling with the PTSD and was "alone" too. I know what is means to "break" and struggle first hand so I have to be honest, if he broke, I don't know what would happen. That was another thing I had worried about when he decided to go to his class reunion. Because I had managed to pull him away from all that, I was very worried about him going back and being able to see how toxic it really was kind of like when people distance from their dysfunctional families and then go back and visit and finally see how bad it really was and how it can impact them in some bad ways.

Well, my point for you Mowtown, is that while this is definitely a challenge for you, it is important that you recognize that whatever you come across that somehow rattles or tires you out, it is important to understand that a lot of people have these "spots" and a lot of people disassociate from these trouble spots too. It is "ok" that you finally get to actually learn how to understand these areas in yourself, and actually "heal" instead of feeling like you have to run away from "just being human" with challenges that a lot of people have, not just you.

The thing about "suicidal thoughts" is not that someone should really just give up either, no one deserves to experience that. However, what that ususally means is that when a person has those thoughts, typically it is because they feel that no one will understand how deeply they are troubled, that is how I felt. However, I was wrong because the truth is, that since I have been finally talking about "who OE" really is and "why", I have found that "others" have similar deep challenges just like me and that when someone keeps silent, then these challenges never get exposed to where they can be better understood and society can learn something from it to where "improvements" can happen and people can get "help" earlier in their lives so your hurts and my hurts can not only be helped, but eventually "prevented".

You were at a point where you seriously considered ending and so was I. But we both were able to walk away and we both reached out for help too. And we both know it has not been easy since we made that choice to reach out for help too. We come here and talk about it, at times we are supportive with others who also have that challenge here on the boards. However, Mowtown, the truth is there are people who read what we are sharing all the time, people that read what we write that are not even members but in their desperation are searching the net and our conversations pop up and these people can see "they are not alone" and we have no idea how many times that conversation may be the one thing that motivates someone else to seek help or hang on or finds some kind of relief.

We have also shared how we were "failed" by the Mental Health providers too, but you can also read how these very professionals will say, "You never really know what is going on in someone's mind" right? Well, that is true, however, if people who struggle don't talk about what is going on in their minds, how are these Mental Health Professionals going to "learn"? You and I both reached out for help and that help made us both feel we were "criminals" somehow for struggling. Well, that wont change or improve unless we talk about it. You shared how Bipolar gets over diagnosed too, well, again that wont change unless it is discussed and professionals learn to spend more time with patients before just diagnosing Bipolar.

While you are working on your healing and sharing Mowtown, you are becoming a part of the "solution" instead of just giving up or in to the problem. And quite honestly? That urge to talk? That is what it is designed for, that is how human beings learn to improve and understand in order to "thrive" better.

When you talk about how "suicidal thoughts" are still there in a flutter from time to time, I have that too. It is not as intense as it was when I almost acted on it, but when I have some very challenging things take place, a flutter of those thoughts still take place and often that is connected to a deep inner fear that I have. I believe what that means is that something has triggered one of my "hurt spots" and I get a spike in anxiety and I struggle. I have learned that when I lay down and relax for a bit, that feeling goes away.
Sometimes I experience a bad PTSD cycle when I am triggered too, I have learned to wait it out, that once that cycle ends I can have a chance to intellectualize it better and understand what it means better too. The healing comes from slowly working through whatever "hurts" are there and learning how to be "patient" in that process.

My T keeps reminding me to remember that the brain has pasticity to it, and that I can learn to slowly overcome a lot of my challenges but that it is going to take me some time.
I admit that I do get impatient with that process, I "do" have a lot of deeply hurt areas that I am becoming more "aware of". I am learning all the time, it is a lot of work too.
Perhaps as we continue to talk and share, we will continue to help others in ways we may never know. It's just a part of our journey and the truth is, "we are not alone with that challenge".

OE

[MotownJohnny]

OE: ((((((((((()))))))))))

[Bluegrey]

((((Open Eyes))))


Bluegrey

[Teacake]

Hey Johnny,

My therapist does brainspotting too. It hasn't worked because im pretty ADD and hadnt been treating it. Now at the eleventh hour (oh how typical) its dawning on me that I really do have ADD and PTSD and a couple of borderline traits and a high iq and im perimenopausal. I can ride this horse as easily as be trampled by it.

I do recall being surprised by how a spot in my visual field could be remates to a specofic thought, feeling or Memory.

Try this at home kids! Pool at a blank wall. In your imagination square it off in one foot squares. Relax your mind then blank it, then pool methodically at each imaginary square. When hoi find an Active one note what it Is then go on. Come back to the Active one and see if it isnt the same thougjt, feeling or Memory. Down and to the right Is where I look when someone's questions stir up shti I dont want to open up. Down and right Is a pile of black packages hiring in the Shadow. Maybe nlp says everyone keeps their shti stash there. I dont know.

My major practice now Is yoga. I'm also getting back into fighting form. When the ratty little techs surrounded me, I had a glimpse of the hoy of being monkey in the middle on the dojo floor. In better company, it might have been a fun way to get a buzz on. Isnt that sick? Bit not nearly as sick as the fat nurse who.set me up for that. Eyes been fat a long, long time, as my doper friend would say, to become such a cried out ole dunt.

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

A couple of interesting things happened yesterday. My first experiment in "brainspotting". We found calm places and anxious places in my field of vision. It was kind of weird, but it was noticeable.

The really interesting thing - he had me move my eyes to different positions and talk about the thoughts that came into my head. At one point, one of my really bitter childhood memories came into my mind, I told him about it, talked about it, and moved on.

It is dramatically less vivid in my mind today ... I'm almost a little freaked out by that ... maybe it's psychsomatic, maybe it's the placebo effect, maybe the brainspotting thing really works. I dunno -- all I know is the image from age 5 has now receded a lot further back in my mind, it isn't as "palpable" as it was yesterday. Weird, huh????

Also talked about dissociation - he seems to think I do it a lot more than I am aware - I always viewed it kind of as passing out or lapses of total memory, where you would have "missing time" or whatever ... but he explained that it's on a continuum, from daydreaming to "zoning out" to complete dissociation like DID ("multiple personalities" for those old enough to remember 'Sybil'). I do have these moments where things look "off" - the light, the landscape, the lay of the land, the appearance of familiar surroundings. I always felt it was something related to the "silent" migraines I have from time to time - no pain, but significant visual distortions, bright, bright chartreuse green auras that often make it hard to see, and blind spots/black holes. But he thinks I'm temporarily dissociating a bit - if I'm interpreting this right, that is. Again, I dunno. I need to do more research - I so far have just looked up the wikipedia entry, which isn't that detailed.

Finally, an interesting comment about bipolar - he confirmed what my current psychiatrist said - his comment was that bipolar is so over-diagnosed now that it is essentially meaningless. He said that is partially the fault of the insurance system, because they DO provide more coverage for certain conditions, and bipolar is one of those and the range of symptoms is so wide that almost anyone with some kind of MH issue may fall into the category when symptoms are viewed superficially. Like I did!

Good for you motown, sounds like you may have gotten a little relief from some memories.

[MotownJohnny]

Yesterday was another session - it is intense, I am tense going in, tense there, and tense after I leave.

If someone had told me that staring at a fixed point can ramp up or tone down my anxiety level depending upon where I gaze, I never would have believed it. It seems like some dime store magician's parlor trick, and maybe I am just making it up and it's just psychosomatic - but I swear to God it is real. I have been in a few talk therapy sessions that got intense because of the subject matter. This thing like regular therapy on steroids. Maybe it will accelerate some of the resolution of my issues.

Is this EMDR your talking about?