[lostinsidemyself]

I hope it's ok if I post this. I searched and didnt find an explaination of dissociation but found a lot of questions about "I did this, what does it mean...or what is this" and I found this VERY helpful. Just thought folks here could find this helpful. If Im breaking any sort of rule, please feel free to delete it...I just wanted to help anyone that could find this helpful. Im putting a trigger icon on it as I don't know if some will find it triggering.

"Referencing Bill Tollefson

Dissociation appears as a fixed stare withglazed eyes. People say things to you such as, “You’re dizzy,” “You sure are spacey,” “Where did you go?” or, “Earth to Mary.” Dissociation is used to escape from uncomfortable situations, feelings, or traumatic events, such as sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, or verbal abuse. However, as adults, we have more and better ways to defend ourselves than by dissociating, and continuing to do so robs us of our vitality and ability to fully experience life.

As a child, when you experience a traumatic event, you have three choices: (1) Die; (2) Go insane; or (3) Dissociate. When you learned to dissociate, your head (thinking) disconnected from your body (feeling). Since then, you have been “living in your head, ” experiencing life intellectually, not emotionally.

It is important to remember that dissociation is not abnormal; it is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. And you don’t need to have a long history of abuse. It only takes a single event to cause dissociation.

Because you learned how to dissociate, no matter what trauma you may encounter, you will never go insane, and your system will find a way to prevent you from dying. Your system will even sabotage a suicide attempt. All this is because no matter what happens, you want to survive. There is something in your Self which refuses to allow you to be destroyed.

The Dissociative Continuum

There are different stages of dissociation which lie on a continuum:

Daydreaming. Almost everyone does this. If you have ever let your mind wander in class because the teacher was boring, or driven to work and then not been able to really remember the trip, you have been daydreaming.

Imaginary Friends. Many children have imaginary friends. This is neither unusual or abnormal.

Dissociative Episodes. During traumatic events, extreme stress, or overwhelming emotions, you may “blank out,” “get lost in the carpet,” or even fall asleep. When you return you will not be able to recall where you mind went, or what you were thinking about. These dissociative episodes occur to help you avoid dealing with what is happening around or inside you.

Out of Body Experience. During a traumatic event, you may have the sense of being oustide your body, and feel that you are viewing yourself from a completely different vantage point. For example, you may see the event as though you were floating near the ceiling and looking down at yourself and/or your abuser.

Voices with Identities and Functions. You may hear voices inside your head telling you what to do or say. For example, one voice may tell you, “Date that person, he’s really bad for you.” You have compartmentalized yourself out of necessity, because although your abusers do not allow you to think, feel, or act for yourself, you still have to be able to function when you are away from them. Imagine you have put your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings into different drawers in a chest; there are dividers between them, but they are all touching, and you are aware of what is happening.

Fragments with Identities and Functions. If you need greater protection from your abusers, you may develop fragments with names, specific functions, and feelings. Your parents may demand that you be quiet, compliant, and pretend to be stupid. However, you also need to be a good student in school. You may have Quiet Clara who handles situations at home and Suzie Student who takes your tests at school. When a fragment is functioning for you, you may feel as though someone has “taken over” your body and you have no control over yourself; however, you are still aware of what is going on around you. What has happened is the that the “drawers” into which your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings are stored have become separated from each other and are no longer touching.

Note: At all levels of dissociation from Daydreaming through Fragments you are conscious of what is happening. Dissociative Episodes through Fragments are classified as Dissociative Disorders. 1-6 are all conscious and 7 is unconscious.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This occurs when your need for protection from your abusers is so great you have developed alters, each with their own feelings, functions, memories, and names. You may be a quiet, conservative person, but one day friends might tell you they saw you the previous evening dancing on the tables at a local bar, wearing a see-through blouse, and claiming your name was Lolita. There is some or no communication between alters, but you are not conscious of what happens when an alter is “out” (functioning for you), nor do you have any*memory*of what the alter has done or said. You have crossed the “amnestic barrier, ” consequently when you switch from being yourself to being an alter, you lose time. You might have alters named Angry Alice, because you are not allowed to be angry in the presence of your abusers; Smart Susie, who is an excellent student despite your abusers’ insistence that you are stupid; and Creative Cathy, who likes to paint landscapes, which your abusers tell you is a waste of time. Nevertheless, all your alters are still you; they are parts of yourself which have become compartmentalized. What happened is that the “drawers” in you chest have become completely separated from each other. You have developed alters in order to protect yourself. Each alter holds memories, qualities, thoughts, and feelings that are perceived as being too dangerous for you to have. In order to develop alters, the abuse must have begun before the age of seven.

Note: All the above dissociative behaviors were developed as a perceived solution to a need. They were a child’s answer to how to survive a potentially life-threatening situation.

Determining Factors

How far you move up the dissociative continuum is based on the following factors:

Age of Onset of Abuse. The younger you are when the abuse begins, the farther up the continuum you may move. In order to go to DID, however, the abuse must have begun before the age of seven, because this is the age at which a child goes from “magical thinking” (for instance, believing in Santa Claus) to “rational thinking” (understanding that Santa Claus is really Mom and Dad).

Severity of Abuse. The more severe the abuse, the higher you are likely to go on the continuum.

Repetition of Abuse. The more often the abuse occurs, the higher you are likely to go on the continuum.

Perception of the Abuse. An event which appears frightening to one person may seem life-threatening to another. This does not mean one person is weaker than another! It simply means each of us has our own perception of individual events.

Sensitivity. Some people are more sensitive than others. As an analogy, think of a litter of puppies jostling each other. One puppy may cower in the corner and whimper, while another may bounce around and wrestle with its brothers and sisters. Again, this does not mean you are weak! This is just the way you were born.

Creativity. The more creative you are, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Intelligence. The more intelligent you are, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Pain Tolerance. Some people are born better able to tolerate pain, both physical and emotional. The lower your pain tolerance, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Experiences/Defenses. The fewer experiences you have (such as seeing how a friend’s healthy family behaves) and fewer defenses you have in place (such as being able to understand how sick your abusers were), the higher you may go on the continuum.

Resources. Not having a positive person (such as a loving aunt, a supportive teacher) or positive activities (such as being on the school newspaper or a member of a church choir) can cause you to move higher on the continuum.

Inconsistent Pattern of Behavior of Abuser. The more unpredictable, inconsistent, or confusing the behavior of your abuser, the higher you may move on the continuum.

Vicarious Abuse. You may develop dissociation from witnessing abuse happening to someone else.

The Origins of Dissociation

When you are born, you have physical and emotional boundaries, represented by the figure of the left, and a Core Self, represented by the dot in the center. *The image is a square box with a dot in the center.

When you experience trauma as a child, your boundaries are penetrated and no longer intact. the perceived invasion causes you to feel helpless, overwhelmed, fearful, and extremely exposed, leaving your Core Self vulnerable.

In order to survive the trauma, you separated into a Physical Self and a Dissociated Self. To prevent destruction of your Core Self, you hid it where your abuser could not find it. You then forgot where you hid it, because if you could remember, there would be a chance your abuser might get the information from you and thereby gain access to your Core Self and possibly destroy it.

Remember that you learned to dissociate in order to prevent yourself from dying or going insane. Everything you did was because you want to survive, and dissociation was the only option you had as a child.

Dissociation does not mean that you are defective, damaged, insane, stupid, or worthless. In fact, you are among the most gifted people in the world because it takes intelligence, creativity, and imagination to learn how to dissociate. Congratulate yourself on your ability to survive overwhelming trauma."

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by lostinsidemyself

I hope it's ok if I post this. I searched and didnt find an explaination of dissociation but found a lot of questions about "I did this, what does it mean...or what is this" and I found this VERY helpful. Just thought folks here could find this helpful. If Im breaking any sort of rule, please feel free to delete it...I just wanted to help anyone that could find this helpful. Im putting a trigger icon on it as I don't know if some will find it triggering.

"Referencing Bill Tollefson

Dissociation appears as a fixed stare withglazed eyes. People say things to you such as, “You’re dizzy,” “You sure are spacey,” “Where did you go?” or, “Earth to Mary.” Dissociation is used to escape from uncomfortable situations, feelings, or traumatic events, such as sexual abuse, physical abuse, mental abuse, spiritual abuse, emotional abuse, or verbal abuse. However, as adults, we have more and better ways to defend ourselves than by dissociating, and continuing to do so robs us of our vitality and ability to fully experience life.

As a child, when you experience a traumatic event, you have three choices: (1) Die; (2) Go insane; or (3) Dissociate. When you learned to dissociate, your head (thinking) disconnected from your body (feeling). Since then, you have been “living in your head, ” experiencing life intellectually, not emotionally.

It is important to remember that dissociation is not abnormal; it is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. And you don’t need to have a long history of abuse. It only takes a single event to cause dissociation.

Because you learned how to dissociate, no matter what trauma you may encounter, you will never go insane, and your system will find a way to prevent you from dying. Your system will even sabotage a suicide attempt. All this is because no matter what happens, you want to survive. There is something in your Self which refuses to allow you to be destroyed.

The Dissociative Continuum

There are different stages of dissociation which lie on a continuum:

Daydreaming. Almost everyone does this. If you have ever let your mind wander in class because the teacher was boring, or driven to work and then not been able to really remember the trip, you have been daydreaming.

Imaginary Friends. Many children have imaginary friends. This is neither unusual or abnormal.

Dissociative Episodes. During traumatic events, extreme stress, or overwhelming emotions, you may “blank out,” “get lost in the carpet,” or even fall asleep. When you return you will not be able to recall where you mind went, or what you were thinking about. These dissociative episodes occur to help you avoid dealing with what is happening around or inside you.

Out of Body Experience. During a traumatic event, you may have the sense of being oustide your body, and feel that you are viewing yourself from a completely different vantage point. For example, you may see the event as though you were floating near the ceiling and looking down at yourself and/or your abuser.

Voices with Identities and Functions. You may hear voices inside your head telling you what to do or say. For example, one voice may tell you, “Date that person, he’s really bad for you.” You have compartmentalized yourself out of necessity, because although your abusers do not allow you to think, feel, or act for yourself, you still have to be able to function when you are away from them. Imagine you have put your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings into different drawers in a chest; there are dividers between them, but they are all touching, and you are aware of what is happening.

Fragments with Identities and Functions. If you need greater protection from your abusers, you may develop fragments with names, specific functions, and feelings. Your parents may demand that you be quiet, compliant, and pretend to be stupid. However, you also need to be a good student in school. You may have Quiet Clara who handles situations at home and Suzie Student who takes your tests at school. When a fragment is functioning for you, you may feel as though someone has “taken over” your body and you have no control over yourself; however, you are still aware of what is going on around you. What has happened is the that the “drawers” into which your behaviors, thoughts, and feelings are stored have become separated from each other and are no longer touching.

Note: At all levels of dissociation from Daydreaming through Fragments you are conscious of what is happening. Dissociative Episodes through Fragments are classified as Dissociative Disorders. 1-6 are all conscious and 7 is unconscious.

Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This occurs when your need for protection from your abusers is so great you have developed alters, each with their own feelings, functions, memories, and names. You may be a quiet, conservative person, but one day friends might tell you they saw you the previous evening dancing on the tables at a local bar, wearing a see-through blouse, and claiming your name was Lolita. There is some or no communication between alters, but you are not conscious of what happens when an alter is “out” (functioning for you), nor do you have any*memory*of what the alter has done or said. You have crossed the “amnestic barrier, ” consequently when you switch from being yourself to being an alter, you lose time. You might have alters named Angry Alice, because you are not allowed to be angry in the presence of your abusers; Smart Susie, who is an excellent student despite your abusers’ insistence that you are stupid; and Creative Cathy, who likes to paint landscapes, which your abusers tell you is a waste of time. Nevertheless, all your alters are still you; they are parts of yourself which have become compartmentalized. What happened is that the “drawers” in you chest have become completely separated from each other. You have developed alters in order to protect yourself. Each alter holds memories, qualities, thoughts, and feelings that are perceived as being too dangerous for you to have. In order to develop alters, the abuse must have begun before the age of seven.

Note: All the above dissociative behaviors were developed as a perceived solution to a need. They were a child’s answer to how to survive a potentially life-threatening situation.

Determining Factors

How far you move up the dissociative continuum is based on the following factors:

Age of Onset of Abuse. The younger you are when the abuse begins, the farther up the continuum you may move. In order to go to DID, however, the abuse must have begun before the age of seven, because this is the age at which a child goes from “magical thinking” (for instance, believing in Santa Claus) to “rational thinking” (understanding that Santa Claus is really Mom and Dad).

Severity of Abuse. The more severe the abuse, the higher you are likely to go on the continuum.

Repetition of Abuse. The more often the abuse occurs, the higher you are likely to go on the continuum.

Perception of the Abuse. An event which appears frightening to one person may seem life-threatening to another. This does not mean one person is weaker than another! It simply means each of us has our own perception of individual events.

Sensitivity. Some people are more sensitive than others. As an analogy, think of a litter of puppies jostling each other. One puppy may cower in the corner and whimper, while another may bounce around and wrestle with its brothers and sisters. Again, this does not mean you are weak! This is just the way you were born.

Creativity. The more creative you are, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Intelligence. The more intelligent you are, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Pain Tolerance. Some people are born better able to tolerate pain, both physical and emotional. The lower your pain tolerance, the higher you may move up the continuum.

Experiences/Defenses. The fewer experiences you have (such as seeing how a friend’s healthy family behaves) and fewer defenses you have in place (such as being able to understand how sick your abusers were), the higher you may go on the continuum.

Resources. Not having a positive person (such as a loving aunt, a supportive teacher) or positive activities (such as being on the school newspaper or a member of a church choir) can cause you to move higher on the continuum.

Inconsistent Pattern of Behavior of Abuser. The more unpredictable, inconsistent, or confusing the behavior of your abuser, the higher you may move on the continuum.

Vicarious Abuse. You may develop dissociation from witnessing abuse happening to someone else.

The Origins of Dissociation

When you are born, you have physical and emotional boundaries, represented by the figure of the left, and a Core Self, represented by the dot in the center. *The image is a square box with a dot in the center.

When you experience trauma as a child, your boundaries are penetrated and no longer intact. the perceived invasion causes you to feel helpless, overwhelmed, fearful, and extremely exposed, leaving your Core Self vulnerable.

In order to survive the trauma, you separated into a Physical Self and a Dissociated Self. To prevent destruction of your Core Self, you hid it where your abuser could not find it. You then forgot where you hid it, because if you could remember, there would be a chance your abuser might get the information from you and thereby gain access to your Core Self and possibly destroy it.

Remember that you learned to dissociate in order to prevent yourself from dying or going insane. Everything you did was because you want to survive, and dissociation was the only option you had as a child.

Dissociation does not mean that you are defective, damaged, insane, stupid, or worthless. In fact, you are among the most gifted people in the world because it takes intelligence, creativity, and imagination to learn how to dissociate. Congratulate yourself on your ability to survive overwhelming trauma."

great information but please be careful what you posted can now since 2013 fit just about every mental disorder, physical health problem and normal events.

example epilepsy contains many of these same symptoms that you posted, as does sleep deprivation, eating disorders, euphroia, my point what some call dissociation others call it side effects, and other problems.

in me staring with glazed eyes was not one of my dissociation symptoms. it was part of my having Multiple Sclerosis (a medical condition not mental)

here in my location treatment providers do not believe there is a coralation of creativity and dissociation. here it is believed even those that are low functioning, no creativity, no above normal talents, dissociate. here in my location dissociation is defined as a reaction to a negative or positive trigger that happens in every human being, that its a normal part of how the human species brain functions.

my point I know many people who happen across information like the above and jump the conclusion that they are abnormal, and have to be creatively inclined, must have been abused, must have this or that and in some people trying to fit their selves into these widely published articles, blogs, books,....become dangerously suicidal and other problems.

I have found that the best way to know whether a person is dissociating is by contacting ones own treatment providers. there are medical tests and psychiatric evaluations that can tell a person whether what is happening to them is a mental, physical or normal thing going on and whether what they see as being dissociation is dissociation or for example epilepsy, schizophrenia, an eating disorder, not getting enough sleep....the list can go on for ever what may appear to be dissociation can end up being instead of dissociation.

please take care and if you think you may be dissociating on any level contact a treatment provider.

[DesigningWoman]

Thank you so much for posting this!
I have never heard this described so well and throughly. It answered a lot of my questions. I don't have alters but I have most of the rest of disassociation behaviors described. At 36, I have begun really dealing with the disassociation. I was always scared to tell anyone about it prior. I thought people would think me insane, lock me up, and throw away the key. Also they are really hard to put into words. I curl up inside my body and leave my brain stem behind to keep me functioning. because to many people they do sound crazy.
Now I have a therapist well versed in PTSD and sexual trauma survivors. I felt it was time to tell someone who might understand. She basically said it's a normal response to trauma. Time to start to working on it now. It's tough to leave behind though. It's a safety blanket I have been wrapped up in for decades.

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by DesigningWoman

Thank you so much for posting this!
I have never heard this described so well and throughly. It answered a lot of my questions. I don't have alters but I have most of the rest of disassociation behaviors described. At 36, I have begun really dealing with the disassociation. I was always scared to tell anyone about it prior. I thought people would think me insane, lock me up, and throw away the key. Also they are really hard to put into words. I curl up inside my body and leave my brain stem behind to keep me functioning. because to many people they do sound crazy.
Now I have a therapist well versed in PTSD and sexual trauma survivors. I felt it was time to tell someone who might understand. She basically said it's a normal response to trauma. Time to start to working on it now. It's tough to leave behind though. It's a safety blanket I have been wrapped up in for decades.

You are very welcome. I found it also very helpful. I try to dissociate every therapy session but my therapist is too good at watching/reading my body language and stops me or pulls me out of it. I do it most especially when we talk about the past or feelings that hurt.

I also dissociate a lot like at night, I did it at walmart and was one of the few times where I lost memory and 'woke up' in the handicap stall curled on the floor screaming "dont hurt me" and no clue how I got there; and also did once where I ended up 'waking up' on the railroad tracks and have no clue how i got there let alone out of my house but those are the only two times as an adult i did that. I can tell you times i did in the trauma but that would be, i think, TMI really.

Its good information I think and can be very helpful! Glad you got some help out of it!

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

great information but please be careful what you posted can now since 2013 fit just about every mental disorder, physical health problem and normal events.

example epilepsy contains many of these same symptoms that you posted, as does sleep deprivation, eating disorders, euphroia, my point what some call dissociation others call it side effects, and other problems.

in me staring with glazed eyes was not one of my dissociation symptoms. it was part of my having Multiple Sclerosis (a medical condition not mental)

here in my location treatment providers do not believe there is a coralation of creativity and dissociation. here it is believed even those that are low functioning, no creativity, no above normal talents, dissociate. here in my location dissociation is defined as a reaction to a negative or positive trigger that happens in every human being, that its a normal part of how the human species brain functions.

my point I know many people who happen across information like the above and jump the conclusion that they are abnormal, and have to be creatively inclined, must have been abused, must have this or that and in some people trying to fit their selves into these widely published articles, blogs, books,....become dangerously suicidal and other problems.

I have found that the best way to know whether a person is dissociating is by contacting ones own treatment providers. there are medical tests and psychiatric evaluations that can tell a person whether what is happening to them is a mental, physical or normal thing going on and whether what they see as being dissociation is dissociation or for example epilepsy, schizophrenia, an eating disorder, not getting enough sleep....the list can go on for ever what may appear to be dissociation can end up being instead of dissociation.

please take care and if you think you may be dissociating on any level contact a treatment provider.

I certianly dont want ANYONE to think that just because they have a "dazed" look that this must mean they are dissociating nor do I want them to NOT go to a professional. Actually, if they are dissociatong, they should seek medical advise. I simply saw a lot of questions about "what is this" and the answer is "you are dissociating but no where on the site in my search did I see an explaination of what dissociation is.

This is just one man's explaination. And it does state that "However, as adults, we have more and better ways to defend ourselves than by dissociating, and continuing to do so robs us of our vitality and ability to fully experience life."

And in addition, on the bottom of the site on every page it states: "The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice,*diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.*
Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here."

And I also advised the MODs that if this breaks a rule to delete it.

BUT, having this defines helps, a lot.

[vonmoxie]

Thanks lostinside. I found it to be a rather apt description as well, one that aligns with my own understanding on many points. I don't think its format is unclear, i.e. it is clearly written in essay format in one person's voice, and is not a scientific document nor a publication of the APA or DSM committee (neither of which is necessarily better, in my opinion), and I would agree that it is a helpful window to what can comprise a dissociative struggle.

Something I found not to be accurate for me personally is one of the opening statements that "As a child, when you experience a traumatic event, you have three choices: (1) Die; (2) Go insane; or (3) Dissociate" -- I in fact did not dissociate as a child experiencing physical, mental, and sexual abuse from the young age of 5, and only much later started dissociating as the result of cumulative additional traumas experienced; also I (clearly) did not die, nor did I go insane though I often wished that I could have for whatever degree of escape from the dark reality of my experience it might have otherwise afforded me. All my severe childhood trauma is deeply etched for life upon my being without the possibility of mental or spiritual escape.. and if this experience of inescapable pain is what passes for my sanity, I'd still much rather my mind had been more effectively able to lose itself a long time ago. At least that's what I have always imagined, but the grass is always greener on the side of the fence that we can't see.

But I understand the intent of Dr. Tollefson's explanation, and am not at all concerned that there are a couple of nuanced ways in which it may happen to differ from my own experience with trauma and dissociation. I'm a fan of anyone who works to help people with the all too misunderstood troubles of traumatized individuals, and of whose voice speaks to the real pain and struggle that comes with it -- and I do think he has a good understanding. I read in another post somewhere, and it might not have been here, but of someone referring to PTSD as being "curable" and while I hope that's true for every person, it seemed to be potentially dismissive to me, in terms of being inaccurate in the face of the true mental scarring that occurs. I think there are things that can be done to help, by those who actually educate themselves about it, but curable? I don't know anyone with PTSD who would call it that. We're all just doing our best. (Point being, it's the doctors and the industry that oftentimes are still having to catch up with us and our understanding more fully. Kudos to those who try.)

Thanks again for sharing this.

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

Thanks lostinside. I found it to be a rather apt description as well, one that aligns with my own understanding on many points. I don't think its format is unclear, i.e. it is clearly written in essay format in one person's voice, and is not a scientific document nor a publication of the APA or DSM committee (neither of which is necessarily better, in my opinion), and I would agree that it is a helpful window to what can comprise a dissociative struggle.

Something I found not to be accurate for me personally is one of the opening statements that "As a child, when you experience a traumatic event, you have three choices: (1) Die; (2) Go insane; or (3) Dissociate" -- I in fact did not dissociate as a child experiencing physical, mental, and sexual abuse from the young age of 5, and only much later started dissociating as the result of cumulative additional traumas experienced; also I (clearly) did not die, nor did I go insane though I often wished that I could have for whatever degree of escape from the dark reality of my experience it might have otherwise afforded me. All my severe childhood trauma is deeply etched for life upon my being without the possibility of mental or spiritual escape.. and if this experience of inescapable pain is what passes for my sanity, I'd still much rather my mind had been more effectively able to lose itself a long time ago. At least that's what I have always imagined, but the grass is always greener on the side of the fence that we can't see.

But I understand the intent of Dr. Tollefson's explanation, and am not at all concerned that there are a couple of nuanced ways in which it may happen to differ from my own experience with trauma and dissociation. I'm a fan of anyone who works to help people with the all too misunderstood troubles of traumatized individuals, and of whose voice speaks to the real pain and struggle that comes with it -- and I do think he has a good understanding. I read in another post somewhere, and it might not have been here, but of someone referring to PTSD as being "curable" and while I hope that's true for every person, it seemed to be potentially dismissive to me, in terms of being inaccurate in the face of the true mental scarring that occurs. I think there are things that can be done to help, by those who actually educate themselves about it, but curable? I don't know anyone with PTSD who would call it that. We're all just doing our best. (Point being, it's the doctors and the industry that oftentimes are still having to catch up with us and our understanding more fully. Kudos to those who try.)

Thanks again for sharing this.

You're welcome!

Yeah, I didnt like the die, go insane, or dissociate either...though I did have a varying degrees of dissociation then and now; then I had alters but didnt loose memory, i did go to a place in my own mind, my world, and I also went completely 'gone' where i went physically limp and was completely physically numb at that point (had no choice) and got VERY good at dissociating that I do it A LOT now as an adult. But there were times that I didnt either.

But yeah, I do get his point to. I ignored that because the remainder of the info is so well placed.

And I do agree that the more creative/artistic you are the more likely you will dissociate, you have to have a good imagination to go to another world in your head or float on the ceiling or whatever.

It is written so well and helps you place yourself, or you dissociation in a paticular catigory and if anything will help you and your therapist as you can say "i do this and it says here that that is dissociating because of this" and can help you two make a plan to keep you grounded in reality. Thats just my opinion and its how its helped my therapist help me.

I hope folks can use this as information to help them!

[Shaly78]

I like to invalidate a few things here:

Creativity and Intelligence in my mind is no merit because no one has ever told me about how creativity and intelligence plays a role in dissociation.

Add to determining factor the number of abusers

Forced into silence, family threatened if told

I'm not even sure about 'safe' family because if they have no knowledge about the questions to ask or what you look for then they are just family more people to create apparent normal parts/emotional parts from possibly

I knew a person that had abuse from a grandparent for seven years no dissociative identity disorder....

I read also online about 2 sisters that when through years of cult abuse no dissociative identity disorder

What happened in those two examples.

I just didn't like what you said about weak and sensitivity

No it is a coping mechanism that is why most of us shouldn't be in therapy unless something sever is happening to mess up your safety! If you black out across town and are found on a side walk, admitted to psych ward then get diagnosed then no choice to be outed. Most of us don't cope that bad where our parts are making us very unsafe...Some of us are well protected high functioning with well paying jobs and career that can keep us incognito ....I think that is majority of what is story material that are in books and movies.

[Shaly78]

I wanted to say also you might want to move past the well I fit every criteria but all of other written information about DID doesn't fit my system it can kinda be dangerous reading all of that information cause it is assessable online then feeling like you don't fit the part like someone's else system....Every system might not get switches where you get a change in vision temporarily that isn't any medical condition...I would say, be patient you can get diagnosed there is never a need for it to happen really quickly if it does your just fortunate I fell in the right hands, most therapist pdoc will recognize soon enough what is da matter....If your that inpatient, there is always the forums research to show how to help yourself (journal, forum writing is a start)....I think it helps to emerge alters by reading and being in therapy, it was a helper for me, but also I was in a domestic violence situation while in therapy also, yea also fell in the right hands.....

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by Shaly78

I like to invalidate a few things here:

Creativity and Intelligence in my mind is no merit because no one has ever told me about how creativity and intelligence plays a role in dissociation.

Add to determining factor the number of abusers

Forced into silence, family threatened if told

I'm not even sure about 'safe' family because if they have no knowledge about the questions to ask or what you look for then they are just family more people to create apparent normal parts/emotional parts from possibly

I knew a person that had abuse from a grandparent for seven years no dissociative identity disorder....

I read also online about 2 sisters that when through years of cult abuse no dissociative identity disorder

What happened in those two examples.

I just didn't like what you said about weak and sensitivity

No it is a coping mechanism that is why most of us shouldn't be in therapy unless something sever is happening to mess up your safety! If you black out across town and are found on a side walk, admitted to psych ward then get diagnosed then no choice to be outed. Most of us don't cope that bad where our parts are making us very unsafe...Some of us are well protected high functioning with well paying jobs and career that can keep us incognito ....I think that is majority of what is story material that are in books and movies.

First of all, I didnt write this, hense "Referencing Bill Tollefson"; take that up with him.

Second I was in a cult from ages 6 to 18 headed by my mom & step dad, I made up alters but had no memory loss and the alters left when i left the cult; I also had a made up world that I would completelty dissociate to (I think one would need to be a little creative to do that) but I dont have DID so this ISNT explaining just DID; if you read the entire thing, dissocitation varies from simple day dreaming to DID.

No it is a coping mechanism that is why most of us shouldn't be in therapy unless something sever is happening to mess up your safety! If you black out across town and are found on a side walk, admitted to psych ward then get diagnosed then no choice to be outed. Most of us don't cope that bad where our parts are making us very unsafe...Some of us are well protected high functioning with well paying jobs and career that can keep us incognito ....I think that is majority of what is story material that are in books and movies.

I take complete offense to this. So what Im understanding, and I am dyslexic, is you are saying that if someone dissociates, they cant function in society and have a high paying job? And furthermore state that if someone feels the need for a little bit of help, like marriage counseling, they shouldnt go because there wasnt severe abuse? Are you seriously saying that?

Apparently all you took from that was the "blacking" out part; read above that. Daydreaming that we all do is disocissation. Making up a fake world to go to when they want to escape bad feelings (no loss of time, no loss of memory, and dont 'black out' and end up across town) is dissociation.

By the way, I dissociate ALL OF THE TIME, I would say on average 20 times a day and I still function in society, have a high paying job and have never been admitted to the psych ward.

Please read everything posted and if you take offense to the wording, take it up with Bill Tollefson; he's all over the internet.

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by Shaly78

I wanted to say also you might want to move past the well I fit every criteria but all of other written information about DID doesn't fit my system it can kinda be dangerous reading all of that information cause it is assessable online then feeling like you don't fit the part like someone's else system....Every system might not get switches where you get a change in vision temporarily that isn't any medical condition...I would say, be patient you can get diagnosed there is never a need for it to happen really quickly if it does your just fortunate I fell in the right hands, most therapist pdoc will recognize soon enough what is da matter....If your that inpatient, there is always the forums research to show how to help yourself (journal, forum writing is a start)....I think it helps to emerge alters by reading and being in therapy, it was a helper for me, but also I was in a domestic violence situation while in therapy also, yea also fell in the right hands.....

This isnt about me! In the first few sentences I explained why I posted it, I had searched and found no explainations of what dissociation is, but a TON of people saying "i do this or that, what is it". So all i did was posted Bill Tollefson explaination, whom I believe is a Dr by the way.

Also dissociation ISNT ONLY DID, get that out of your head. I dissociate all the time and my ONLY 3 diagnosis is BPD, PTSD, and GAD.

[Shaly78]

Yea dissociation is a symptom...Disorders certain ones yea I know

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by Shaly78

Yea dissociation is a symptom...Disorders certain ones yea I know

IF I wanted to say "here's what DID is" (which is just one of MANY ways to dissociate) then I would of posted this in the DID section of the forum. I didnt because this explains a LOT more than just DID and someone can learn "hey I tend to go to a world in my head, I dont loose memory but I am seeming to escape, I guess that's dissociation" (just to name one, mine) AND if they were in therapy could bring it up to their therapist or find the need to seek out therapy if they werent in therapy...which therapy by the way should be gone to by anyone(s) that find the need for a bit of help; without shame. My therapist has seen people without severe abuse, or any abuse present and then he sees me whom is a surivior of severe abuse...but I would never discourage therapy if someone finds the need for some help; actually therapy should be encouraged in my opinion. Therapy can help a wide range of individuals get the help they need to lead better and more fullfilling lives.

[rep97]

I have dissociation 24/7. Since the traumatic events.. I can't feel with my body.. I am up in my mind 24/7... and it is painful. I dont know how to get cured as well.

I tell people all the time i have dissocationo like my doctor, psychiatrist, nurses and they just don't believe me. They think it is schizophrenia.

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by rep97

I have dissociation 24/7. Since the traumatic events.. I can't feel with my body.. I am up in my mind 24/7... and it is painful. I dont know how to get cured as well.

I tell people all the time i have dissocationo like my doctor, psychiatrist, nurses and they just don't believe me. They think it is schizophrenia.

Do you feel pain? Im just curious. As i cant see someone never coming out if dissociation. If you can feel pain if you were hurt, then you arent 100% always completely dissociated...or lets say you were, god forbid, im a bad car accident or in a stalled car on train track; would you be in the reality of the moment and be able to save yourself or know you were hurt if you were?

There are varying degrees of it. Ive only lost memory twice; not knowing how i got from point A, where i last remember being to point B, where i "woke up". Most of my dissociations are more of going away in my head.

Numbing myself in the day time to be able to work is a type of dissociation and thats 9 hrs a day. So i can sorta see that, but the min I walk out of the doors at work, im back to feeling again and back to that "terrified child" and its automatic.

So i dont know, ive never seen or heard of anyone living 24/7 in dissociation that wasnt hospitalized. The sort of "old way" of view a psych ward with the (for lack of a better word) "crazy people" stuck in their minds. But those folks cant function and dont know where they are. To type this you cant be stuck in your mind 100%. Is it possible that you just sorta go away to a made up world and feel like you are there 100% of the time but really arent?

Im not judging not am i a Dr, im just wondering and maybe an alternate perspective will help?

[rep97]

Originally Posted by lostinsidemyself

Do you feel pain? Im just curious. As i cant see someone never coming out if dissociation. If you can feel pain if you were hurt, then you arent 100% always completely dissociated...or lets say you were, god forbid, im a bad car accident or in a stalled car on train track; would you be in the reality of the moment and be able to save yourself or know you were hurt if you were?

There are varying degrees of it. Ive only lost memory twice; not knowing how i got from point A, where i last remember being to point B, where i "woke up". Most of my dissociations are more of going away in my head.

Numbing myself in the day time to be able to work is a type of dissociation and thats 9 hrs a day. So i can sorta see that, but the min I walk out of the doors at work, im back to feeling again and back to that "terrified child" and its automatic.

So i dont know, ive never seen or heard of anyone living 24/7 in dissociation that wasnt hospitalized. The sort of "old way" of view a psych ward with the (for lack of a better word) "crazy people" stuck in their minds. But those folks cant function and dont know where they are. To type this you cant be stuck in your mind 100%. Is it possible that you just sorta go away to a made up world and feel like you are there 100% of the time but really arent?

Im not judging not am i a Dr, im just wondering and maybe an alternate perspective will help?

Dissocation can mean that a person doesn't have a connection to their body/gut. I am 24/7 in my mind...and no connection(as to feel) and it even says so in the information you posted in this thread.

When I take a lot of sleeping pills.. and it makes me drowsy I start to feel a connection with my gut/body but then soon enough I lose myself again after the effects are wearing off.

Dissocation has varying degrees.. from not being able to know where you are.. to something similar to mine.. where you can't FEEL life.. you just experience life INTELLUCTUALLY. I knew this but I am quoting from your own article you posted in this thread.

So yeah... I feel there are several people in my mind and body.. they all clash with each other and I am in pain/suffering all the time. No I don't hear voices or anything but I know there are differing points of views in my head and I have no connection to my body so it is hard to live life peacefully or enjoy life and not be in pain.

Also on top of these symptoms I have emotional flashbacks too.. where I feel a lot of shame and hide from people and then get nauseous and sweat alot. Also I can't make decisions. I would think about the smallest things for hours and I still can't come up with a solution for simple things. This is because my mind is full of thoughts and going so fast but I can't make up my mind because I can't FEEL with my body. Just a lot of noise in my mind. I donno if you got it or not but this is very painful for anyone to lose connection to their body.. which in other words lose the ability to feel.

So where does that shame come from? it must be something to do with trauma. so yeah.

[lostinsidemyself]

Originally Posted by rep97

Dissocation can mean that a person doesn't have a connection to their body/gut. I am 24/7 in my mind...and no connection(as to feel) and it even says so in the information you posted in this thread.

I know, I was just curious why you felt that way.

Personally I go in and out of dissociation, if i have too much pain going on or need to hide it, thats when I do it.

However the 2 times i lost memory, one was severe panic and terror and the other one was such high amount of pain and fighting the urge to self do a ritual.

When I take a lot of sleeping pills.. and it makes me drowsy I start to feel a connection with my gut/body but then soon enough I lose myself again after the effects are wearing off.

How many is a lot?

Dissocation has varying degrees.. from not being able to know where you are.. to something similar to mine.. where you can't FEEL life.. you just experience life INTELLUCTUALLY. I knew this but I am quoting from your own article you posted in this thread.

Ok, so you are stating you are numb? Im just trying to understand is all.

So yeah... I feel there are several people in my mind and body.. they all clash with each other and I am in pain/suffering all the time. No I don't hear voices or anything but I know there are differing points of views in my head and I have no connection to my body so it is hard to live life peacefully or enjoy life and not be in pain.

That sounds like DID. Not sure why your Drs think schizophrenia. DID is having alters, schizophrenia is hearing voices.

Also on top of these symptoms I have emotional flashbacks too.. where I feel a lot of shame and hide from people and then get nauseous and sweat alot. Also I can't make decisions. I would think about the smallest things for hours and I still can't come up with a solution for simple things.

Flashbacks of any kind are normally found more with PTSD, or at least in my experience.

This is because my mind is full of thoughts and going so fast but I can't make up my mind because I can't FEEL with my body. Just a lot of noise in my mind. I donno if you got it or not

My mind races with MANY thoughts 24/7 about as fast if not faster than the spin cycle of a washing machine and i cant grab just one of them. I wouldnt sleep if i didnt take an anxiety med at night to slow that down at night.

but this is very painful for anyone to lose connection to their body.. which in other words lose the ability to feel.

I was numb for 10 yrs while denying my past ever happened. That was supression, pushing it all down but it kept all bad AND good feelings completely numb. One may put up here or there which is why ive struggled with several addictions, they got them numb again. So the inability to feel anything i totally get.

So where does that shame come from? it must be something to do with trauma. so yeah.

For me, not just the trauma but carrying the blame for the trauma also. Sunce the blame has shifted, its not like i dont feel shame or guilt since i still believe i deserved it...but its not as much. Or at least it made it easier for me to get better and to move.

[rep97]

So this Dr Tolleffson that is mentioned in this article.. I went to his website and bought a survivor's guide dvd to help me with my trauma and it cost me $79.

It didn't do anything for me. Nothing. I thought this article rings truth to me in a lot of it but no the program I bought is just a childish thing that is ridiculous.