[Altered Moment]

Do the effects of suffering from mental illness cause stress in your life?

How so?

If so do you think this stress makes your mental illness symptoms worse?

If so does this stress cause other physical problems, cause disease or contribute to disease?

If you are taking psyche meds and they are working does that reduce stress in your life?

How do the effects of your mental illness effect your life over all?

There are many ways to treat mental illness and to deal with stress but this is the psyche med section and I am curious if psyche meds have helped your mental illness and if this has reduced your overall stress.

I can tell your that depression and anxiety have had an enormous impact on my life. Most recently I lost two jobs in a row due to missing to much work due to depression. They had to fire me. I was unemployed and collected unemployment but that was only half my wage and I could not pay all my bills. The depression was not going away it was getting worse. I was forced to move home to my family because I could not pay my rent and I was suicidally depressed. At one point my unemployment benefits ran out and I have no income at all. The depression didn't go away it got worse and lasted 8 months. I could not look for other employment.

The depression and anxiety caused me to become unemployed and to eventually lose all income. I was looking at becoming homeless real quick and this created an enormous amount of stress for me and probably made my depression even worse. I had to reach out to my family and thank god they were there for me.

Depression/unemployment/financial stress/ financial stress is the absolute worse for me. I have to be able to pay my own way somehow or I feel like a total loser over it and this triggers more anxiety and depression. Viscous cycle to get into. Seems there is no way out of it.

So depression has a very real impact on an important part of my life and this creates and enormous amount of stress. How does this stress effect me other than making my mental illness worse? I know it makes my mental illness worse but how do the symptoms of my mental illness and the stress effect all the other systems of my body. This is what I am trying to figure out. I plan on posting more on this, but now I am tired. So good night.

Stress shuts me down. The right amount of stress is good. It gets me to act. Too much will make me freeze. The meds would help the bad stress but then I loose the good stress. That's why I don't like to take them for very long. I used to do DBA work and that is the most stressful IT job there is. I can actually handle it pretty well in the moment. It's just when I go home I shut down and nothing else gets done. I have since scaled back my career. I don't feel too bad about that because I want to be a FT artist but at one point I had a very promising career. Now most of my former peers have national reputations in the field. The last nail on that career came two months ago when I turned down a job I would have drooled for a few years ago for a fairly boring but 9-5 with no laptop job. I don't even have access to email from home. Kind of mixed feelings about that. I digress.

Back to the topic... I don't do meditation very well but active mindful practice is the best thing for my stress. It isn't just a break. It changes how I react to things in my daily life. It has to be active and regular though.

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My mental illness, if untreated, is completely disabling. I feel blessed to live in a time when psychiatric medications are available, even though they are far from perfect. Medication has allowed me to have a successful life (raise a family, be a good friend, be a good aunt/sister/daughter, be a responsible employee, be a loving wife, be a productive member of society, etc.).

I had a great-aunt who was hospitalized in Creedmoor Psychiatric Institution from the time she was 19 until she was in her early-50's. She spent the last two years of her life living with my grandmother (her sister),but died in her mid-50's. I had an aunt who battled with mental illness and shot herself - suicide - at age 60. I have a cousin who shot and killed himself when he was in his early 30's. I believe that if my mother had had access to psych meds she wouldn't have been crazy and abusive (and abused). I have a sister who is dying from the effects of having been a meth addict for many years, she needs mental health treatment, but refuses it.

With mental illness, stress that might be small to others is HUGE to me. Medication helps me cope with stress - both external and internal. Meds provide a stabilizing buffer between me and the sharp edges of life...I can enjoy life, rather than suffer through it battling every minute to keep from drowning in my craziness. I'm by nature a "do-er". I'm a dynamic person, a creative person, and meds allow me to be the BEST of who I am.

[venusss]

I need to be objectivelly well.

Prague done me more good then all supplements I took through the years, I believe.

Year when I was stuck in a tiny village, living with my mom, without any job, going to random interviews to Prague... Ï was getting hella apathetic. And I kinda couldnt fool myself i am alright.I was stuck, I was bored out of my mind, I was isolated and there not much everyday escapism for me to keep me going.

I get still depressed or manicky in Prague (tbh, Prague IS kinda stimulating and does away with any apathy, even the protective kind), but I kinda handle things better here. And having a job helps too. At least I can hyperfocus on how to translate garden tools and names of birds or Rosa Parks biography (and other kids study materials).

[Altered Moment]

My mental illness is extremely debilitating when it kicks in. Meds have not been super effective for me. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they kinda work. Sometimes not at all. The ones that have worked always quit working. Overall I believe they have helped me or I would not have stuck with them. Meds are just one part of the many things I have done to treat my depression.

Up until two years ago my whole life I was able to maintain a good job. But that was about all. Depression has had a profound effect on my ability to be a good father to my daughter. When she was little I often parked her in front of a video and anything on TV so I could sleep. She wanted my attention and to play with me and I often would do whatever I could to get rid of her so to speak. That sounds horrible but it is true. There were neighbors with a kid her age and I would always try to get her to go over there and play. I don't have a lot of guilt anymore about it because she is 21 and we are very very close. I have been honest with her about my alcoholism/addiction depression and recovery. I got sober when she was three and for that I am grateful. The thing is after I had a couple of years sober my depression got really bad even though I was on meds. For many years I carried huge guilt over my lack of being available to my daughter in so many ways.

I just finished doing a thorough work history for my social security disability appeal and I got to see how much depression effected my employment over the years. I started working when I was 12 but I started from when I was 20 and first went to a plumbing company. From 20 to 30 I was using drugs and alcohol and they actually worked. I was able to do good at work and cope with life pretty good. 30 to 32 it went down hill fast and I lost my twelve year job. Then I lost another job real quick. My marriage was in disaster mode. This is when I got clean and sober. Alcoholism/addiction and depression are all a part of the same mixed up illness for me.

Even though I was on meds my depression got much much worse after I got clean and sober. The only reason I was able to hold onto the same job for ten years is that the owner and my boss and good friends put up with me missing one month at a time three times a year. No other company would put up with that.

I get carried away writing a lot but my point is that my mental illness/ alcoholism/ addiction has had a profound impact on every area of my life and because of that impact has created a huge amount of stress over the years. I could go on and on about it.

Take away my mental illness and my real self, who I truly am, can handle a great deal of stress no problem. I can multi task and juggle all kinds of things and keep them straight and stay calm. I have nerves of steel. I am a very calm mellow person by nature and things roll off of me like water off a ducks back.

But the reality is I do have mental illness and because of it it has created enormous stress in my life.

Depression caused unemployment/ unemployment benefits ran out/ depression was very long term/ unable to look for a job and no chance of keeping one/ no income/ huge financial stress/ facing homelessness/ effects relationships/ huge burden on family financially and emotionally/ just everything. No unemployment is not a mental illness as someone said I suggested. Mental illness causes unemployment.

Depressed (and I have not mentioned the anxiety and paranoia) 15 of the last 20 months. And I mean severely, suicidal, the whole nine yards. I know this has had an huge impact on me physically as far a being in shape gaining fat, losing muscle. But I wonder how the stress has effected other systems in my body.

I am currently doing very well on my new meds. Better than I have ever done on meds. This is allowing my to pick up the pieces and deal with what I need to deal with without a lot of stress. My life in the future will probably be very different than it has in the past and it is hard to accept and that creates stress. But because the meds are working I am dealing with it all much better than I was able to deal with it the last 18 months. I have been able to keep all my appointments and deal with all the paper work and bureaucracy the last 20 months but it was not easy and created a lot of stress.

So have psyche meds alleviated stress in my life? When they work, your damn right they have.

I am all for making lifestyle changes, making compromises in your career, and simplifying your life to reduce stress. Often it is internal and external circumstances beyond your control that are pulling the strings and making you make decisions that seem to be the best of two evils. That is how it is for many people.

I have been meditating and practicing mindfulness for 20 years and it is very beneficial not just for reducing stress but for many other things. My problem is in my case depression and anxiety seem to always reach their hand in and mess things up.

[-jimi-]

It causes me a lot of stress. Just one example, people think I should be happy and available all the time and sometimes I need to isolate and clear my head. Then people get grumpy and disappointed because I'm not fun and social. They can't understand I can be uberly social and playful AND also have a side where I need to process process process and wind down. When they get angry with me I get scared, stressed and I feel super guilty.

That is just one aspect.

I often need a med just to relax. I have tried other things but they don't work as well. Meds and journaling. That is my combo.

[PoorPrincess]

The meds help, yes, but it's a trade off of benefits for negative side effects in my experience. There's a price that's paid. The stress of the meds is the trade off for me.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by PoorPrincess

The meds help, yes, but it's a trade off of benefits for negative side effects in my experience. There's a price that's paid. The stress of the meds is the trade off for me.

Do you mean that the stress that meds reduce is the trade off for you? Or that the side effects of the meds are worth the trade off for you? Like the meds you are currently taking are helpful and worth the trades offs?

[Altered Moment]

So like I said I am wondering what effects stress due to mental illness has had on me. If I am well I handle stress very well naturally and I have learned many coping mechanisms over the years that I use. Since it is the mental illness that is the main source of my stress then obviously successfully treating the mental illness is the best strategy for reducing it.

So I am doing some research of the effects of stress no matter what the source and how it effects us.

Press Release: How Stress Influences Disease: Carnegie Mellon Study Reveals Inflammation as the Culprit-Carnegie Mellon News - Carnegie Mellon University

PITTSBURGH—Stress wreaks havoc on the mind and body. For example, psychological stress is associated with greater risk for depression, heart disease and infectious diseases. But, until now, it has not been clear exactly how stress influences disease and health.

A research team led by Carnegie Mellon University's Sheldon Cohen has found that chronic psychological stress is associated with the body losing its ability to regulate the inflammatory response. Published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the research shows for the first time that the effects of psychological stress on the body's ability to regulate inflammation can promote the development and progression of disease.

"Inflammation is partly regulated by the hormone cortisol and when cortisol is not allowed to serve this function, inflammation can get out of control," said Cohen, the Robert E. Doherty Professor of Psychology within CMU's Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences.

Cohen argued that prolonged stress alters the effectiveness of cortisol to regulate the inflammatory response because it decreases tissue sensitivity to the hormone. Specifically, immune cells become insensitive to cortisol's regulatory effect. In turn, runaway inflammation is thought to promote the development and progression of many diseases.

A whole NIH section on PTSD
NIMH · Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

Happiness & health | HSPH News | Harvard School of Public Health

https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/stress.aspx

From what I am reading it can cause depression, and if depression causes stress that leads to a viscous cycle and hard to break without effective treatment.

Also heart disease, coronary artery disease, and atherosclerosis. Given all the factors I am facing- family history, stress from mental illness, hypertension, out of shape and over weight party due to depression, and so on, I have decided I am going to take a statin drug. I have no way to predict how depression and anxiety will effect me in the future. Hopefully I will be in a much simpler less stressful financial situation a year or so from now and I will be able to tolerate depression and anxiety much better as it will not have as big of an impact on my life. I intend to have a much simpler life but that is the hands of SSA.

I don't think anybody has denied stress causes certain disease but so do psychotropic drugs. Some of those include iatrogenic illness, obesity, diabetes. I'm sorry but I can't remember the name of the one that makes you shake.

To learn more about the connection to diabetes:

http://beyondmeds.com/2012/04/18/diabetesobesity/

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[PoorPrincess]

Originally Posted by Michanne

I don't think anybody has denied stress causes certain disease but so do psychotropic drugs. Some of those include iatrogenic illness, obesity, diabetes. I'm sorry but I can't remember the name of the one that makes you shake. PP added: bipolar meds such as lithium and depakote, some bronchodilators

To learn more about the connection to diabetes:

Are You At Risk For Diabetes and Obesity? If you?ve taken or take psychiatric drugs the answer is YES ? Beyond Meds

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Tremors. Check.
Tremors worsened by added med(s). Check.
Throwing up all week from new med in mix. Check.
As I said, for me it is whatever benefit of the drug offset by the negative effects of the med. It's a trade off of stresses if you will.

Originally Posted by PoorPrincess

Tremors. Check.

Tremors worsened by added med(s). Check.

Throwing up all week from new med in mix. Check.

As I said, for me it is whatever benefit of the drug offset by the negative effects of the med. It's a trade off of stresses if you will.

And that's what works best for you. I don't think I disrespected that. Are you saying others should not weigh their options differently?

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[PoorPrincess]

Oh no, didn't think you disrespected at all, michanne.
Do I like that negative trade off? No. Am I happy with it. No.
I try to live with it until I have another alternative.
I know it's not a perfect world. I sure wish it were.
And of course each person should weigh their options as they will.

Originally Posted by PoorPrincess

Oh no, didn't think you disrespected at all, michanne.
Do I like that negative trade off? No. Am I happy with it. No.
I try to live with it until I have another alternative.
I know it's not a perfect world. I sure wish it were.
And of course each person should weigh their options as they will.

No that is my intent but you already said it was a trade off so I do not know what you were trying to say.

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[Altered Moment]

I read the article. "psychotropics cause disease" is a pretty broad statement. Which psychotropic drug specifically? If you say Meth Amphetamine I will readily agree with you. Psyche Meds I can't argue because I really don't know. AP's and AAP's seem to be the worse but I don't know the evidence. SSRI's? SSNRI's? Benzo's? Are side effects considered disease?

Are You At Risk For Diabetes and Obesity? If you?ve taken or take psychiatric drugs the answer is YES ? Beyond Meds

Many of us who’ve been on psychiatric drugs (really any psych drug) have insulin resistance even if we’ve not developed diabetes

Really??? Any psyche drug??? The article provides no evidence to back up that statement. All the related articles listed seem to talk about inflammation and stress. I didn't read all the related articles but none of the titles mention psyche drugs. Inflammation, stress, toxins, diet, prevention.

I don't think anyone would deny that obesity and diabetes are huge problems or even epidemic. But you didn't provide any evidence that all psyche meds cause insulin resistance as the article claims and neither does the article.

This is my opinion but it seems to me that stress, inflammation, and cortisol levels are much larger factors in contributing to and causing disease than psyche meds. Again, which psyche med, which disease, and what evidence?

Venus
Psychmeds play a role in the fact that mentally ill die 25 years earlier.

Where is the evidence that psyche meds play a role if that is in fact true. Seems to me all the issues mental illness cause like stress would be the primary factor and not meds.

Michanne
I don't think anybody has denied stress causes certain disease

I can't find the posts so I guess they were pruned but Venus said in one post -
"I do not think stress causes disease but psyche meds do"

I asked for evidence to support that statement. She didn't provide any.

I don't think anyone can deny that mental illness causes a huge amount of stress for many people. You can find tons of real life testimony to that in the depression section alone. I provided some evidence on how stress, inflammation, and cortisol contribute to and cause disease. I am not saying they don't, but I am waiting for evidence that psyche meds cause disease.

[venusss]

Where is the evidence that psyche meds play a role if that is in fact true. Seems to me all the issues mental illness cause like stress would be the primary factor and not meds.

here is one article on that.

https://altmentalities.wordpress.com...r-editor-nami/

another one

https://altmentalities.wordpress.com...ars-statistic/

both sourced.


Okay, I rectract somewhat from the original statement. Yes, stress plays a role in disease. But you cannot deny that some psychmeds DO carry warning that they can cause disease as well.
I do believe that taking meds to handle stressful life without trying to adjust the stress level just adding another thing to worsen your health overall. It may feel better, but... you are still under the stressful situation. Unless there is really no way to eliminate it or lessen significantly... it's like taking painkiller for broken leg and considering it a cure, because it's hurting less now. It can get real tricky too, because unlike broken leg, you cannot really see the level or nature of your stress, so one has to go by their instincts.

Can sometimes chemistry help and make life easier? Most definitelly. But one should always reconsider other aspects. Is some of the stuff really worth it? How many of the shoulds you tell yourself are really coming from your heart? Do you really wanna be doing what are you doing or what you "should" be doing? So on.

I think lot of the stress we create is kinda artificial....

I am talking of the external stress mostly.

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

I read the article. "psychotropics cause disease" is a pretty broad statement. Which psychotropic drug specifically? If you say Meth Amphetamine I will readily agree with you. Psyche Meds I can't argue because I really don't know. AP's and AAP's seem to be the worse but I don't know the evidence. SSRI's? SSNRI's? Benzo's? Are side effects considered disease?

Are You At Risk For Diabetes and Obesity? If you?ve taken or take psychiatric drugs the answer is YES ? Beyond Meds


Really??? Any psyche drug??? The article provides no evidence to back up that statement. All the related articles listed seem to talk about inflammation and stress. I didn't read all the related articles but none of the titles mention psyche drugs. Inflammation, stress, toxins, diet, prevention.

I don't think anyone would deny that obesity and diabetes are huge problems or even epidemic. But you didn't provide any evidence that all psyche meds cause insulin resistance as the article claims and neither does the article.

This is my opinion but it seems to me that stress, inflammation, and cortisol levels are much larger factors in contributing to and causing disease than psyche meds. Again, which psyche med, which disease, and what evidence?

Where is the evidence that psyche meds play a role if that is in fact true. Seems to me all the issues mental illness cause like stress would be the primary factor and not meds.


I can't find the posts so I guess they were pruned but Venus said in one post -
"I do not think stress causes disease but psyche meds do"

I asked for evidence to support that statement. She didn't provide any.

I don't think anyone can deny that mental illness causes a huge amount of stress for many people. You can find tons of real life testimony to that in the depression section alone. I provided some evidence on how stress, inflammation, and cortisol contribute to and cause disease. I am not saying they don't, but I am waiting for evidence that psyche meds cause disease.

C'mon! Your really trying to pass meds off as harmless? Really? Ssri and AP and lithium are known for tremors. Permanent if you take it long enough. I will remember the name in my sleep. You know better than to say iotrogenic illness doesn't exist (or to question it). How many people take meds to counteract side effects of other drugs? How many people get dx with bipolar after taking SSRIs even though they never had symptoms before? You're telling me benzodiazepines are harmless taken daily for years? You're telling me people that now have chronic depression despite never having it before weren't affected by the SSRIs they are taking for their grief?

I'm not going to dig for your proof if you're going to start with meds don't cause disease. You use yourself as an example a lot. Want to see some stories of other people? Take at antidepressant withdrawal forum site. The link is on beyond meds. You asked Venus for examples. I just gave you some. I asked sister "what diseases?" She basically avoided it and let you answer. Don't believe? Then don't. It's as much proof as you've given that despite years of taking meds genetics is the sole cause of your weight gain.

I remember Venus's post. It said something to the effect of they cause Illness. I don't think she said stress doesn't. She'll have to confirm if it got deleted. I shouldn't be speaking for her anyway.

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[Altered Moment]

Zinco
Psyche Meds I can't argue because I really don't know. AP's and AAP's seem to be the worse but I don't know the evidence.
I am not saying they don't, but I am waiting for evidence that psyche meds cause disease.

Michanne
C'mon! Your really trying to pass meds off as harmless?

I never said a word about them being harmless. I don't know how you can say I am trying to pass them off as harmless. I asked for evidence to back up the claims. I said I didn't know. You guys are claiming psyche meds cause disease and I am asking for evidence or studies. Quite honestly I have never really studied it because I have never looked at them as harmful to me in my case. I don't believe for one minute that psyche meds for me have caused weight gain. Middle age, genetics from my dad, less exercise as I have gotten older, totally sedentary and atrophying 15 of the last 20 due to depression. I have had one major side effect from SSRI's and SSNRI's that I consider very detrimental. I fully realize that that doesn't mean a thing. I am one person.

I honestly do not know what iotrogenic illness is. This is why I am asking for evidence. I will read it with an open mind.

You're telling me benzodiazepines are harmless taken daily for years?

I never said any such thing. I am aware of the risks of long term use. Addiction and withdrawal. Other than those of I ignorant of it. Can you call the effects disease I do not know. "SSRI's? SSNRI's? Benzo's? Are side effects considered disease?" This was asking the question and asking for evidence thus the question marks.

How many people get dx with bipolar after taking SSRIs even though they never had symptoms before?

I think we have had this argument before and I don't think the psychiatric community has resolved it. They did change the DSM 5 that addresses it. I have not seen studies on it or maybe I did post some I can't remember.

You're telling me people that now have chronic depression despite never having it before weren't affected by the SSRIs they are taking for their grief?

This one I don't believe. That SSRI's cause depression in those who never had it. That is my opinion and I am open to evidence.

I'm not going to dig for your proof if you're going to start with meds don't cause disease.

Again I never said that and I never started with that. I started with a claim made in a blog that all psyche drugs cause insulin resistance. A pretty bold claim with no evidence listed. You posted the article.

Don't believe? Then don't. It's as much proof as you've given that despite years of taking meds genetics is the sole cause of your weight gain.

Again I didn't say I didn't believe I asked for evidence. And again no I don't believe for a minute psyche meds have caused weight gain for me. I took them for 11 or 12 years and had very little fat. At age 43 on the same classes of meds I started gaining weight.

Withdrawal from AD's is a serious and real issue and I do understand the biochemistry to some degree. I have never claimed it wasn't. Whether it has long term adverse effects or just that receptors have to re adapt I don't know. Is it a disease?

Venus did say this-
"I do not think stress causes disease but psyche meds do"
In her above post she "somewhat" retracted the stress part.

I started a thread about Mental Illness, Stress, and Meds. It was my intent to discuss how mental illness causes stress which leads to other problems and meds if they successfully treat mental illness can reduce stress and reduce stress induced problems. Mainly for people to post how their mental illness has effected their life. Look at all my opening questions. It had nothing to do with psyche meds causing disease.

If you guys want to argue how psyche meds cause disease i am happy to discuss the issue. And I don't really care if it is off topic. It was your post Michanne that opened the topic by saying "so do psychotropic drugs" and posted an article. Is it unreasonable to ask for evidence and studies to back up your arguments?

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

I do believe that taking meds to handle stressful life without trying to adjust the stress level just adding another thing to worsen your health overall. It may feel better, but... you are still under the stressful situation. Unless there is really no way to eliminate it or lessen significantly... it's like taking painkiller for broken leg and considering it a cure, because it's hurting less now. It can get real tricky too, because unlike broken leg, you cannot really see the level or nature of your stress, so one has to go by their instincts.

Can sometimes chemistry help and make life easier? Most definitelly. But one should always reconsider other aspects. Is some of the stuff really worth it? How many of the shoulds you tell yourself are really coming from your heart? Do you really wanna be doing what are you doing or what you "should" be doing? So on.
I think lot of the stress we create is kinda artificial....
I am talking of the external stress mostly.

I will read the articles and check the sources. Thanks for posting them. It may not be until Monday or Tuesday.

I think you miss the point of the thread. I am not talking about someone who does not suffer from mental illness having a few drinks at the end of the day to relax or reduce stress or people abusing street drugs to deal with life. The title of the thread is Mental Illness Stress and Meds. I am talking about how serious mental illness effects lives and causes stress. Not the everyday ordinary stresses that life throws at us. If you pop a benzo every time you get a little stressed that is obviously not good. If you drink a twelve pack of beer every night to cope with life that is not good.

Of course we should consider other aspects. What someone "should" be doing is a judgement each person has to make by looking in their heart and following their own intuition. Hopefully educating themselves or following advice of those they trust and getting input from those they trust.

I have not and am not denying that psyche meds cause problems and even can cause disease. I had to get blood work done because I was taking Ablilify and they have learned it can raise blood sugar so they wanted to monitor it. I was glad to go off of it to be honest. I have only asked for evidence that is all.

I am lucky and don't have a lot of side effects. I don't think they have caused me to gain weight. I am probably more willing than most to take long term risks because of the serious nature of my mental illness. I would rather take the risks, and I am aware of them, of taking benzos than tolerate the horrible anxiety I was having. If in twenty years I am still on them and they have a rebound effect and cause anxiety and I have to go through withdrawal I will do it. There was not deep breathing or meditation or other techniques that were going to get rid of that anxiety.

[-jimi-]

About the "all psych meds cause diabetes", because as I have stated, I am scared of diabetes, I have really checked the meds I am on. SSRI's do not cause diabetes by changing the metabolism of carbs like the new gen antipsychotics do. They only cause diabetes when they cause weight gain. If you do not gain weight on SSRI's you don't have a higher risk of diabetes. With for example Seroquel you can stay normal weight and get diabetes because you can no longer process carbs in a normal way.

Benzodiazepines have no direct correlation with diabetes at all.

Any exercise will help prevent diabetes.

Taking an antipsychotic with metabolic disturbances cause diabetes to a lesser degree if sugar is totally cut out and starchy carbs reduced (according to my old doc who reads everything on every new med that comes out).

I refuse to take prednisone and part reason is the risk of diabetes. So yea I don't take those decisions lightly. Meds for the mind are not different than meds for the body. Both can have side effects. Unfortunately the docs I have been in touch with do not prescribe an alternative to pred, like Imuran if you have not tried and failed pred. So I know how it is to leave a physical illness untreated.

However in my case, my mental illness is in much higher need of getting treated, I simply do not function without meds, without them I live in a kind of demented state with severe cognitive deficits and severe mental pain. So my choice... well lets face it, I'd rather depend on the meds and have a life. And yea, even accept the 5 or so pounds the Ritalin piled on.

Of course I don't like ANY risks caused by my meds, but I try to do what is least harmful for me. Sometimes it is clear cut, sometimes it is guesswork. But I have been shamed enough for taking meds. Real life is usually very unkind when it comes to that.

I work to keep my body healthy. It's not like I'm always on my butt and I almost never eat junk. So I don't feel I chose between mental and physical health. I try to do what is best both for my mind and body.

I could stand to lose a little, but knowing my all or nothing mind, I'm scared of start cutting calories. I need to know I'm not going overboard.

Jimi may be able to help you with evidence. I actually don't have time. Of course you can find evidence yourself.

[Altered Moment]

I am not unwilling to look myself or have it pointed to me but I currently don't have the time either. I am golfing in a tournament and then going to the other side of the state for Mothers day. This is only possible because of my current psych meds btw.

I believe you have said on occasion that you believe in evidence based medicine.
I believe you have on occasion asked people to provide links to studies or some kind of evidence to back up what they are saying.
I believe I have always tried to provide links to reputable institutions when I am making a point.

It started with an article you posted. I took the time to read it.
Title

Are You At Risk For Diabetes and Obesity? If you’ve taken or take psychiatric drugs the answer is YES

First paragraph

Since lots of people who’ve taken atypical antipsychotics have developed diabetes or are on the way to developing diabetes, it’s important for anyone with any metabolic issues that have been caused by psych drugs to know the information shared in the below video and the links I share. Also, it’s important to know that if you’ve taken psych drugs, you may have some of these problems without realizing it. These issues are societal wide but those of us who’ve taken psych meds have a substantially higher risk. Conventional medicine only diagnoses diabetes once the disease process has moved quite far along. So if you learn about the risk factors now you might be able to stop the process and get healthy and never develop diabetes!

Second paragraph

Many of us who’ve been on psychiatric drugs (really any psych drug) have insulin resistance even if we’ve not developed diabetes yet. It’s worth learning about even if you’ve not gotten to the point where your doctor calls your issues diabetes. The fact is, as this video speaks to, diabetes is a late stage in the disease process. If you catch it early enough you don’t have to develop diabetes.

I thought the "any psyche drug" was a rather broad and bold claim. And although the article listed other related articles it didn't list anything related to that claim. I have heard that AP's and AAP's can cause metabolic issues and increase risk for diabetes and I don't doubt it is true. They wouldn't have made me get blood tests if it were not. I had been on Abilify two years I think and when they tested my blood sugar it was normal, both glucose and the other more accurate 3 month number (A1c I think). So I didn't worry about it much. Like I said, in my case I do not think psyche meds have caused me much harm and I am willing to take the risks. The risks may be worth the trade offs for some people but actually developing diabetes would be a high trade off. I don't need AAP's and would rather not take them for a number of reasons. I agreed to take Abilfy not even knowing the risks.

In this thread I was more concerned about the stress caused by mental illness and what it might lead to. If meds work and alleviate that stress that may well outweigh any other risks caused by the meds. Simple point and the thread was meant for people to discuss their experience in relation to that.

What I do get a little upset about is when I say something in black and white and it somehow gets turned into something I didn't say at all. It happened to me twice in the last Fat thread and it has happened in this thread and it has happened before.

Michanne
Driving or flying across the country is fun to me. I love wandering around strange towns solo with my camera or camera phone. So should I judge you for finding it so stressful you stay on 85? No, of course not. So why are you doing the same for those that are concerned about weight and side effects?

Huh??? What??? I never said a word or judged anyone for choosing not to take a med due to weight gain or other side effects. I was shocked when you said that and had no idea where you came up with it.

I believe it got pruned but, I created a hypothetical where a husband and father suffers a six month long severe depression and loses his job and went on to talk about all the stress this would cause and so on.
Venus turned this into me saying that "Unemployment is now a mental illness?" Huh??? What???? Where in the world did she get that?

Then in this thread.

Michanne
C'mon! Your really trying to pass meds off as harmless? Really?

What??? Huh??? I never said any such think about them being harmless.

Your response to PoorPrincess.

And that's what works best for you. I don't think I disrespected that. Are you saying others should not weigh their options differently?

Huh??? What??? She clearly stated two times that is was a trade off for herand said "And of course each person should weigh their options as they will." Where in the world did you get that she was saying that others should not weigh their options differently?

I spoke for you once and you did not like it at all. I don't like it when people point out something I said when I absolutely in no way said that.

[venusss]

I think you miss the point of the thread. I am not talking about someone who does not suffer from mental illness having a few drinks at the end of the day to relax or reduce stress or people abusing street drugs to deal with life. The title of the thread is Mental Illness Stress and Meds. I am talking about how serious mental illness effects lives and causes stress. Not the everyday ordinary stresses that life throws at us. If you pop a benzo every time you get a little stressed that is obviously not good. If you drink a twelve pack of beer every night to cope with life that is not good.

See, I think that few drinks of Friday night can help to unwind and aren't that harmful. Of course.... I am Eastern European, so take it with grain of salt (and tequilla shot and lemon lol).

I think that main problem with MI and stress is not MI itself creating stress, but that we are "allergic to stress". So as much as meds can help reduce the stress response, one still needs to avoid the unnecesary stress (let go of shoud-haves and shoulds) and learn to deal with the stress of daily life that you cannot avoid.

I do think humans aren't suited for the current society. It's just... too much. I read somewhere that the amount of stimuli we encounter in a day is simmilar to the levels people in past encountered in few years.

Imho, another oft quoted statistics about 25% of Americans dealing with MI in course of their lifetimes is telling too. Unless you wanna believe humans are degenerating... it's a sign that something is wrong with the way we live. I guess from perspective of individual with bills to pay, turning to chemistry makes sense and is often the least difficult way to deal with it... in the larger scale... it sounds like something from dystopic novel. And I don't fault individuals or their choices.

What I am saying that alleviating stress response imho doesn't help beyond feeling better (which is a good trade off for some people, but it's by no means perfect). Lately I cannot get good night of sleep without really strong brews of my herbs and while it's better than tossing and turning... it's not a solution, imho. I have no idea what I will do.
Not that I have solution for anybody.

Funnily, I am not against mind altering subtances at all.... imho, that's all they are. What bothers me is when they are presented as something that corrects imbalances and all that. Is it because we distinguish bad drugs and good drugs not by it's effects but by "pharma made" and "not approved by government"? It's funny how people in the bipolar forum freaked out when I mentioned salvia. I laughed when I once was in the chat here and people were discussing heavy duty prescription drugs, but when weed was mentioned, the person gotten "no drug talk here" warning. It's funny how some people flip about weed....

I kinda wonder why don't they try to work more on psychdrugs that would act fastish and could be used only when needed. Sure, it would have abuse potential, but wouldn't it be nice to have a pick me up when feeling bad, without having to wait WEEKS for it to start working and without having to take it for long time? (not sure it's really possible and that it would be risk free, but c'mon....).

Venus turned this into me saying that "Unemployment is now a mental illness?" Huh??? What???? Where in the world did she get that?

there was an example about how somebody loses it's job, feels bad, goes to doctors for pills, feels better, gets a new job... that is why I reacted to it.

[venusss]

What I want to say is... if something makes you feel better with reasonable outcomes, then it's a good thing. If it doesn't, than it plain doesn't and no use telling the person they should feel better with XY substance in them (going back to the whole fat thing. If the person feels bad because of the effect, they feel bad. It's not helping, end of the story).

But chasing the good feelings shouldn't end up realing on outside help. Unless you have reason to feel satisfied... than nothing is gonna work long term.

[DocJohn]

Let me weigh in here for a moment, since there seems to be some misinformation running around in this thread.

Not all psychiatric medications can cause additional health problems or health risks. Yes, all psychiatric medications have side effects. But these generally don't rise to the level of disease or a serious health condition that needs additional attention.

The biggest problem research has discovered is weight gain on certain SSRIs and virtually all atypical antipsychotics. Weight gain may lead to diabetes in some, but not all, people. Especially if nothing is done about it.

There are no absolutes in any field. One person may take an atypical antipsychotic and gain only a pound or two. Another person might take the same drug and gain 30 lbs. It probably does no one any good to make sweeping statements about "all" this or "all" that ... because our community is not a debate forum. It's a support forum, first and foremost always.

So yes, there are some potentially serious health problems that can result in taking certain types of psychiatric medications. Every person who takes one should look up this information online -- there's a wealth of good, reliable information on each drug online.

Please remember the community guideline, too, that you shouldn't speak for others, or paraphrase what their saying into some sort of generalization they may have not specifically made or said. It's probably best to share one's own personal experiences, good or bad, and leave it at that. Everybody's mileage on a given med or class of meds is going to vary and your experience may not match mine or someone else's.

Thanks for letting me help clarify,
DocJohn