Boderline and no meds

Great post. Hey I am not snooty....lol. If you read my post history I only get that way when someone attacks me. Unfortunatley that happens alot. I like to give people tools find their own answers..it just works better.

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psisci said:
Great post. Hey I am not snooty....lol. If you read my post history I only get that way when someone attacks me.

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Ah, so it's THEIR fault when you get snooty? I forget, which defense mechanism is that?



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Unfortunatley that happens alot.

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Hmmm, ever wonder what the common denominator is?

gg

edited to note off topic reply. My apologies to those on topic. gg

Yes, I blame you...get a life.

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I like to give people tools find their own answers..it just works better.

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But it was like you just gave a hammer(by only stating how meds help ALL BPD--which is NOT true--- you mentioned nothing about therapy or anything else that has been proven to help)... instead of giving her a tool BOX! Meds can be one way but there are other alternatives of which you NEVER mentioned to this poster--- only one avenue was expressed when there are actually many avenues. (I know this is a "drug" forum but this whole site is about health-- is it not?-- so in regards to health-- I don't think it's very honest for a professional to post only one avenue)

That's my reason for speaking up-- I feel it's to the best interest of the person asking, to fully inform them of their options..... not just one option.

and what are some here so afraid of if I state, for some-- meds just aren't the answer? why can't I say that here???
why cant' meds along with alternatives be discussed? there is so much more to humans than just taking pills(IMO).....

mandy

Sherryanne - I would ignore all pressure from family/friends and trust in yourself regarding how you feel. If you are enjoying life, and feel stable - maybe all you need is Prozac. Or maybe even you don't need it at all. Only you will know, by monitoring your own moods and bahavior.

The thing with all disorders is that they can be scaled in severity, like 1 - 10. Some folks with BPD hold jobs just fine, get married, raise babies...and life ain't half bad most days.

Other folks whose primary diagnosis is BPD spend YEARS inpatient due to self-injury, violence, etc. And most people fall some where inbetween those extremes. BPD comes in LOTS of flavors.

So, you need to decide based on how you are doing over time. Therapy-only is always preferable, when possible (ditto for most disorders). If you can live your life without...wonderful news for you, eh? Some people simply can't.

Take care of yourself!

em

Boy, I'm glad I'm bipolar & am doing well on meds.--Suzy

> If you read my post history I only get that way when someone attacks me. Unfortunatley that happens alot.

Actually if I read your post history (not just on this board) I see that you get 'that way' when you *perceive* someone to be attacking you which may or may not correlate with someone *actually* attacking you.

If someone has a different opinion to you or asks you to clarify or elaborate on your opinion then you have a tendency to perceive others to be attacking or undermining your authority and you have a tendency to respond with hostility and defensiveness.

Oftentimes I think it is fair to say that other people aren't intending to be hostile to you or to undermine you. But given the absence of other cues maybe you have a tendency to interpret hostility. Or maybe its a tendency you have IRL too... Who knows.

I get where you are coming from, Doc. I also understand that you are trained in a specific area - PSYCHOPHARMACHOLOGY!!!

I don't know about anyone else, but if that is what psisci's specialty is, then that is what I expect him to tell me about. The same with my psychiatrist, who does not function in the same capacity as my psychologist, nor my therapist. Each plays a different role in my health care.

Each has a specialty; each will give advice according to their knowledge / training. One would not expect a gyno to be able to give someone an accurate prostate exam would they? Ok, maybe not a good example, since one of them can get into both places, but I'm sure we all get the picture here...

Apparantly though, doctors are not allowed to be "emotional," it seems...(??)

gardenergirl: I find your posts pretty full of the proverbial.

You have just attacked someone who contributes a LOT to PC.

Good work! Well done! I hope you are proud of yourself!

I think what you said was very insulting, and I hope you grow up a little and realise that.

Good luck in your endeavours, hopefully you have not scared off an invaluable resource to PC with your illiterate and ignorant comments.

Cheers!

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!

Before "we" continue, what does' OT" stand for (in the subject line)?

I hate it when I get lost with acronyms...

Interesting topic...

Two semesters ago I did a presentation on the use of meds with BPD (incidentally my professor fell off his chair while I was talking and I could barely get through the rest of the presentation).

Anyway, the bottom line is that with BPD, if you are going to use meds to stabilize symptoms, then fine-- but BPD is a therapy-recommended d/o. It is about character organization-- something that cannot be worked on with meds.

Mood stabilizers may help take the edge off the fluctuations.

Benzos may help ease the anxiety. (Must be closely monitored with BPD because of the addiction factor). Have also been known to add to impulsive behavior.

AD's may help the depression. Some have been known to increase aggression.

Tri-cyclics are contraindicated with BPD because of the potential of OD-- they are more dangerous than other meds in regards to the OD actually killing the person.

So as you can see, there are pros and cons. Meds need to be closely monitored when treating BPD.

I speak not only as a psych. student, but as someone who is diagnosed with BPD (like the other 75 million people in the last couple of years, lol). I am one of those classic cases in which my past pdocs have tried everything-- they have exhausted the list of SSRIs, almost killed me with the side effects of tricyclics, used antipsychotics to ease the anxiety (not a good idea. not a good one at all), then after all that, decided-- hey... you are bipolar, too.. let's try a mood stabilizer.

I went unmedicated (besides for the benzos) for a long time. It was last summer that my mood swings got really intense, and the depression was interfering with my schooling (had to drop a class). I decided to try meds again to hopefully take the edge off of the mood swings, and stabilize me a bit. The idea was that I was using the meds as a tool; as an adjunct to therapy. I have been on Trileptal for almost a year now, and to be honest, I haven't been doing a great job of always being compliant with it.

I do a great deal of resarch on borderline character organization. Through my research and my therapist, I start to understand how I came to be the way that I am. And we work. And work some more. This part does not include meds.

I have no idea if I have bipolar d/o in addition to all the characterological stuff. In fact, I do not care. The bottom line is, yes, I have the mood swings. What disorder they fit into does not matter to me. My T, an analyst, encourages me to be compliant on the meds. He is not a fan of medication, but says that if he didn't think it was beneficial, of course he would tell me. He would like to see me be compliant on the meds, in hopes that it would allow me to focus even more on therapy. Yes, my moods do get in the way at times. But the meds scare me-- it is right to 'stabilize' my moods? To supress them? How much of 'me" will be gone once the meds work? Doesn't that impede analysis? My T says to trust him-- that he would tell me if he thought that this was the case.

So after several years of not taking meds, and then almost a year on meds, I am still not at the point in which I can tell if they 'work.' It's a big deal to me, taking meds. I don't want to take away a piece of myself. But I don't want to be ill either, to the point in which it interferes with school and work. It's a tough decision to make.

One must always be vigilent, just like all the other aspects of dealing with one's illness, including diagnosis, treatments and self-education.

Oh, and a whole lot of guts, too!

Indeed, but you also have to find someone (doc) to trust.

its important to you that people trust you and not question your authority, isn't it psisci.

did you feel helpless as a kid? helpless, and you needed someone to be worthy of idealisation someone who you could look up to and rely on and depend on?

so now...

you try and provide that for others. because you think that someone strong and authoratitive and so on is most likely to help them... because... that is what you think would have been most likely to help you? and it helps you feel in control when idealised. in control and competent.

but when people don't idealise you and they take your opinion as one in many...

things crumble rather, don't they.

and the world is against you and people are hostile. they are like that often, you say. i say: why do you perceive that to be the case?

not everybody needs someone on a big white horse. when authorities have abused our trust trust needs to be earned and not assumed. compassion goes a long way. house is a very interesting tv show but it ISN'T realistic. thats partly why people watch it for a bit of escapism.

trust needs to be earned and not commanded. especially when there is a pattern of lashing out in pre-emptive strike.

How is this supportive oh supportive one??

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psisci said:
Indeed, but you also have to find someone (doc) to trust.

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I do trust my pdoc. But that doesn't change any of the things I wrote. I trust my pdoc to select the meds that he thinks will serve me best. I trust that he treats me not only as a client, but as a professional, and allows me to have input in the decisions. However, all the trust in the world that I have in my him can't take away the fear that the meds will take away a piece of me.

> How is this supportive oh supportive one??

Its supportive in the sense that I'm trying to understand where you might be coming from instead of making malevolent assumptions. I could just say that you are prone to lashing out because you perceive others to be attacking you. Over and over and over again (you admitted it seems to happen a lot). I was trying to be a bit supportive about why it might be that you do have a tendency to perceive others to be attacking you. So maybe people could be a bit more understanding of you and not take your attacks personally.

Its supportive in the sense that I'm trying to encourage you to understand where others might be coming from in that they may well have good reasons not to trust authority. That those reasons may have nothing to do with you. Hence if people question your authority then you don't need to take it personally. Maybe...

I'm interested in process stuff. Repeated patterns. Cycles. I'm interested in how to break the cycles. It really is the case that one can only worry about ones own behaviour. The cycle stops HERE so to speak. Still, being aware of it and of ones role in it can often be productive.

If I'm right I guess a couple of predictions follow:

You would be most likely to clash with people who question your authority.

And... Because you are very concerned about people questioning your authority you tend to perceive people to be doing that even when it isn't their intention. What that tends to lead to is... An attempt to command authority. What that tends to lead to is... Commands and in some instances hyperbolic phrases which actually serve to undermine your authority.

With respect to supportiveness...

I'm trying to help things be more supportive. You can take it or leave it. Externalise it (yeah i'm against you just like everybody else) or actually have a think about ones role...

The latter... Tends to EARN respect.

- I also am trying to understand patterns...

I'm just doing a quick response...this isn't to "fuzzy"...

Keep responses supportive to the original poster and on-topic with the thread's discussion.

If you have personal issue with a response that you don't like, take it to PM, or contact a mod of the forum or admin. When you put focus on a response alone, it completely hijacks the original poster's thread which can lead to hurt, confusion and upset to someone who's just asking a question...usually with specific need to get responses.

KD