[velcro003]

I've been in therapy for about a year and a halfish, and I STILL struggle with opening up to her and sharing things. This has been a much harder process than I had originally thought (and much longer...and more expensive!), and I thought I would be a lot farther than I am now.

She asks all the time "What is so scary about opening up?" And I never can answer her. I always say "I don't know", which has been true. This past week she suggested I go see my pdoc to check my medication dosage, as it may be too low. I'm on the lowest dose of Zoloft, and have been for a little over a year. Just going ON the meds was a tough decision. I didn't/don't really believe I'm depressed, but I gave them a try. The greatest thing they have done for me is virtually erase the IRRATIONAL irritability that I had going on for a long time.

I have been struggling for the past month or so with impending changes in my life in about a year. My job will be ending, and my roommate (whom i've lived with the past 5 years) will be moving to go to grad school. Tuesday, I was feeling VERY sad and hopeless about the future, and was probably most "authentic" with her about how I really feel about my future, and she suggested making an appt with my pdoc.

At first I was scared a little by what she said--like she really thinks I'm that depressed?! I made a resolution to try and fight this weight that wants to make me stay in bed whenever I'm not at work--fight harder than I have been the past few weeks.

(I'm getting to my point....I swear!)

I just couldn't shake this feeling of being unsettled by her request for me to check my med dosage. I think it is because a part of me took it as "Well, I can do nothing with you when you're so depressed, so go up your meds." Like she can't deal with me when I'm being so "Eeyore-ish".

Which in turn made me think about my relationship with her. I think that in some way I am intimidated by her. I am afraid of what she REALLY thinks of me. I feel like I go in and struggle and struggle and struggle in therapy with feeling stuck in life, and in the room, and its been hard. She asks questions and makes observations, and never has ever said anything to make me think she thinks negatively of me--but i'm SO SCARED that she does.

That she thinks I'm pathetic, boring, redundant, and just so sick of my endless whining about problems that aren't THAT big of a deal. So my fear, in turn, must hold me back in some way.

REALLY long story short....has anyone experienced something like this? What do I do? Obviously the answer will be "Talk to her!" That thought makes me freeze up inside. What if she agrees!? What if she agrees that my life isn't so bad, that I do seem to stay stuck in this holding pattern, that she can't really help, that I don't try enough...any amount of negative things. What will I do then?

[skeksi]

I can really relate to a lot of what you say, velcro. It is still such a hard thing to share anything with my therapist.

Originally Posted by velcro003

She asks all the time "What is so scary about opening up?" And I never can answer her. I always say "I don't know", which has been true.

I used to experience this question from my T as impatience. I've come to see it as an exploration, an invitation to understand myself and my reluctance to open up. Over time I have realized that I evaluate every interaction with other people for chances that I might be mistreated or hurt. I react to those, but other people aren't seeing the world that way. Your T and you might be seeing that question differently. Do you feel pressure when you hear it?

I think it is because a part of me took it as "Well, I can do nothing with you when you're so depressed, so go up your meds."

Well, yeah, as you predicted, I think you should talk with your T about this I had the same reaction when I first started seeing T (he recommended meds at my first visit, although he said he rarely did that). I think of it this way: Therapy is walking getting from one room to another, but sometimes the door between the rooms is locked tight. The right combination and dosage of meds can open the door so that, with therapy, you can walk through.

It's hard not to feel like needing meds is a deficiency in some way, isn't it?

[Rozine]

Hi,

I think I can relate... I felt similar to you and made a comparison with my T between me and someone who had worse problems. He was very firm and said he wouldn't have that at all! He said as a human being, my issues, thoughts, emotions, etc., where every bit as important as the next person - which made everything seem okay. I don't know if that helps at all.

Good luck!

[yoginiforhelp]

hey velcro,
you've described exactly how i feel about my therapist. exactly. I feel like she, too, feels like she's wasting her time with me and that, like you described, thinks I'm pathetic, boring, redundant and is simply down right sick of hearing me whine.
I'm not gonna lie, it's a relief to hear that I'm not the only one who feels this way about their therapist.

good luck - let us know how the next session goes. (i actually skipped my last session.. i didn't feel like dealing with the anxiety and intimidation. i should've gone. i've been on a major down swing lately )

Hi Velcro,

this sounds very much like my relationship with my therapist. The process of her trying to get me to open up has been very long and slow, and I felt very afraid of her, or rather of what she might be thinking of me. At some point I came to understand that I was projecting into her head all of the things I accuse myself of, like being lazy or unmotivated or whiny or just looking for attention. These messages are all things I heard as a kid, and have nothing to do with her at all!

I now understand that a lot my fear of opening up has everything to do with the kind of emotional abuse I was subjected to by my mother. For whatever reason, more with this therapist than any other I have ever worked with, she triggers all of the fear of my mother that still lives in a very young place inside me. But this is actually good news, because it means she is an ideal person with whom to work through that very old relationship and the damage it left me with.

As for being asked to check your level of medication, I can only say that when my depression was not adequately treated it was hard to get clear enough about my feelings to understand things like this. And next to impossible to summon the emotional energy and courage needed to explore things. It may simply be that your therapist sees how stuck you are and wants to be sure she is doing everything possible to help you get unstuck.

And yes, the way through this stuff is to tell your therapist what your fear is. As in "I am afraid you will judge me and reject me" That is the first step towards exploring those feelings. That is the actual work of therapy, and the key to freeing all of our relationships from these same fears.

Hang in there...and if you can, be glad that your therapist affects you this way...it means there is real potential for change in your relationship with her!

[velcro003]

i'm glad i'm not TOTALLY alone in feeling like this. I love this board, but I feel so removed from it sometimes, because everyone feels so loved by their therapists, and while I don't think she is mean or anything bad, I see it as a more professional relationship.

[yoginiforhelp]

totally, velcro.

Originally Posted by velcro003

i'm glad i'm not TOTALLY alone in feeling like this. I love this board, but I feel so removed from it sometimes, because everyone feels so loved by their therapists, and while I don't think she is mean or anything bad, I see it as a more professional relationship.

You are not alone. I don't feel loved by my therapist at all. In fact, I don't even know what I feel, but I have felt intimidated many times because T's life seems so great and mine is a failure.

Hang in there.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by velcro003

This past week she suggested I go see my pdoc to check my medication dosage, as it may be too low... I just couldn't shake this feeling of being unsettled by her request for me to check my med dosage...

I react very negatively to this sort of suggestion. What I hear is "I want you to be medicated so that you don't present me with this kind of difficulty -- I don't want to hear about it." Is this just me (and transference) or is my perception somewhat correct that this is what the person is hinting (but not saying openly)?

Originally Posted by velcro003

i'm glad i'm not TOTALLY alone in feeling like this. I love this board, but I feel so removed from it sometimes, because everyone feels so loved by their therapists, and while I don't think she is mean or anything bad, I see it as a more professional relationship.

I think it is important to keep in mind that not all therapists work in the same way. A therapist who is working from a 'supportive therapy' perspective may be much more forthcoming and interactive than one coming from a psychodynamic place.

My therapist (and it sounds like maybe yours too) is definitely using a psychodynamic approach. (I know this for sure, because in one of my first sessions I asked her, since I know some things do not work for me.)

In sessions this approach can be challenging, especially if one is not used to it. I find it terrifying sometimes to be faced with a very neutral, yet receptive person, who is hoping I will show up (emotionally) and be genuine with her.

But this works wonders for me, since it makes it painfully obvious just how hard it is for me to do just that, in any relationship.

She does not offer a lot of emotional content of her own, and I know virtually nothing about her, but she does offer me interpreations of what I have said, which we then can explore together. And once in a while she will say something very challenging. Early on she told me I would make a good sniper, because of my wariness and vigilance. I had a hard time hearing that, but it was actually very good information, a reflection of what she was seeing and feeling, not a judgement.

It took me a long time to be able to feel how much she actually cares about me, but it became obvious partly through her enormous patience with me.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I react very negatively to this sort of suggestion. What I hear is "I want you to be medicated so that you don't present me with this kind of difficulty -- I don't want to hear about it." Is this just me (and transference) or is my perception somewhat correct that this is what the person is hinting (but not saying openly)?

YES! This is EXACTLY how I feel about it! Ugh.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by ripley

I think it is important to keep in mind that not all therapists work in the same way. A therapist who is working from a 'supportive therapy' perspective may be much more forthcoming and interactive than one coming from a psychodynamic place.

My therapist (and it sounds like maybe yours too) is definitely using a psychodynamic approach. (I know this for sure, because in one of my first sessions I asked her, since I know some things do not work for me.)

In sessions this approach can be challenging, especially if one is not used to it. I find it terrifying sometimes to be faced with a very neutral, yet receptive person, who is hoping I will show up (emotionally) and be genuine with her.

But this works wonders for me, since it makes it painfully obvious just how hard it is for me to do just that, in any relationship.

She does not offer a lot of emotional content of her own, and I know virtually nothing about her, but she does offer me interpreations of what I have said, which we then can explore together. And once in a while she will say something very challenging. Early on she told me I would make a good sniper, because of my wariness and vigilance. I had a hard time hearing that, but it was actually very good information, a reflection of what she was seeing and feeling, not a judgement.

It took me a long time to be able to feel how much she actually cares about me, but it became obvious partly through her enormous patience with me.

I pretty much agree with all of this post. She knows and appreciates just how hard this entire process has been for me, and I think she sees it as an indicator how hard it is for me to open up in general; more specifically, with romantic relationships (that don't exist, and haven't for some time). Over the past few days, just THINKING about talking about some of this with her has made me VERY anxious, and I don't see her until a week and a half.

[ECHOES]

"What is so scary about opening up?"

I do hope you are hearing this as she intends it--an invitiation to explore the fears and concerns about opening up. You might start the exploration with 'If I open up, then...' and see what comes to mind. (For me it is that I will sound stupid, whiny, immature, etc. Then taken even further, I think about the imagined consequences... 'If I sound stupid, then...'

The question could sound like a judgement, but it is a way of saying "Let's look at this together."

I hope this helps. It took me a long time to understand that T isn't interested in making me look or sound foolish (stupid, etc), but that she is inviting me to talk about why it is hard to talk about things. Once I understood and could talk about why indeed it is hard to talk, and didn't receive the criticism or judgment I expected, talking became easier.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I do hope you are hearing this as she intends it--an invitiation to explore the fears and concerns about opening up. You might start the exploration with 'If I open up, then...' and see what comes to mind. (For me it is that I will sound stupid, whiny, immature, etc. Then taken even further, I think about the imagined consequences... 'If I sound stupid, then...'

The question could sound like a judgement, but it is a way of saying "Let's look at this together."

I hope this helps. It took me a long time to understand that T isn't interested in making me look or sound foolish (stupid, etc), but that she is inviting me to talk about why it is hard to talk about things. Once I understood and could talk about why indeed it is hard to talk, and didn't receive the criticism or judgment I expected, talking became easier.

THanks Echoes. I do know that she is using that as a tool for me and her understanding WHY its so hard, but i've said "I don't know" so often, I think she is sick of it. And this whole "up your meds" thing has really bothered me Too bad I won't see her until next thursday. Way too much time to worry!

[pachyderm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by velcro003
This past week she suggested I go see my pdoc to check my medication dosage, as it may be too low... I just couldn't shake this feeling of being unsettled by her request for me to check my med dosage...

I react very negatively to this sort of suggestion. What I hear is "I want you to be medicated so that you don't present me with this kind of difficulty -- I don't want to hear about it." Is this just me (and transference) or is my perception somewhat correct that this is what the person is hinting (but not saying openly)?

I see there is a missing piece here. Does anyone else see it?


What if I am hearing pretty accurately, that the person (T) IS saying that they don't really want to know what I am saying, and in addition what if they are not being open (with me or with themselves) about that? What then? If they are doing that, then they are doing that. The missing piece is, why does that result in so much disturbance of thought for me? Why does it cause me to not see what is happening (and panic, in effect)?

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Quote:
Originally Posted by velcro003
This past week she suggested I go see my pdoc to check my medication dosage, as it may be too low... I just couldn't shake this feeling of being unsettled by her request for me to check my med dosage...



I see there is a missing piece here. Does anyone else see it?


What if I am hearing pretty accurately, that the person (T) IS saying that they don't really want to know what I am saying, and in addition what if they are not being open (with me or with themselves) about that? What then? If they are doing that, then they are doing that. The missing piece is, why does that result in so much disturbance of thought for me? Why does it cause me to not see what is happening (and panic, in effect)?

Hi pachy- I think you lost me. What do you mean, exactly?

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by velcro003

She asks all the time "What is so scary about opening up?" And I never can answer her.

Typically, whenever anyone has asked me "What's so scary about [whatever]?" that's been a conversation-stopper for me. As in: "Stop right there, buddy -- I didn't say it was scary, you did! If you're having this conversation with me, we'll need to back up and establish that I actually experience [whatever] as scary. If you're having this conversation with someone I remind you of, go talk to them and leave me out of it."

A second thing in your T's question that I'd expect to bug me is that she seems to have some picture in mind of what "opening up" would and wouldn't look like, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything to me (scary or otherwise) and I don't necessarily know what she means by it. If "opening up" was originally my expression that she was now picking up, looking at, and asking me about, that would be different. If it's hers then it sounds suspiciously like a concept, and I don't relate well to concepts.

Ideally, the way I'd want to talk about opening up (or not) would be with some specific behavior in mind that I think of as opening up -- or for that matter, with some specific behavior in mind that we call by a name we can agree on, whether our preferred name for it is "opening up" or not.

Some questions that I'm imagining being skipped over:

-- "Do you know what I mean by 'opening up'?"

-- "Do you recall ever opening up?"

-- "Can you picture yourself opening up?"

-- "How do you feel about opening up?"

-- "What seems to stop you from opening up?"

-- "What do you think would happen if you opened up?"

-- "Do you find opening up scary?"

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you and your T have actually had this conversation but I find myself imagining that you've skipped over at least some of it, and that's where I'm coming from with this reply.

/

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by velcro003

Hi pachy- I think you lost me. What do you mean, exactly?

If I am feeling dependent on a T (or other person), then the things that they do, which indicate to me that they are wanting not to hear what I am saying, affect me badly. I need them to be willing to hear what I am saying, not what they want me to be saying.

If I am not feeling dependent, then I can see, or think I see, the same things -- them not wanting to hear what I am saying -- and think to myself: "He/she does not want to hear. How interesting!"

I switch back and forth between feeling dependent, and much less so. It makes things very confusing for me, since my feelings change so much between states of feeling. I can cope at some times, but at other times I am almost completely unable to cope, and in those times, I get no help from those who claim to be helpers. So I cannot decide what to do, when confronted with difficulties -- try to cope and learn, or run like hell from the danger posed by "helpers" who have no understanding of what I need, and who appear not to even notice.

I think I am revealing more about myself than is probably safe.

[VickiesPath]

(((((((Velcro))))))))

I understand. I am not going to tell you to talk to her.

Print out your first post on this thread. Take it to your next session.

Read it to her. Let her respond.

It will start a dialogue.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

Typically, whenever anyone has asked me "What's so scary about [whatever]?" that's been a conversation-stopper for me. As in: "Stop right there, buddy -- I didn't say it was scary, you did! If you're having this conversation with me, we'll need to back up and establish that I actually experience [whatever] as scary. If you're having this conversation with someone I remind you of, go talk to them and leave me out of it."

A second thing in your T's question that I'd expect to bug me is that she seems to have some picture in mind of what "opening up" would and wouldn't look like, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything to me (scary or otherwise) and I don't necessarily know what she means by it. If "opening up" was originally my expression that she was now picking up, looking at, and asking me about, that would be different. If it's hers then it sounds suspiciously like a concept, and I don't relate well to concepts.

Ideally, the way I'd want to talk about opening up (or not) would be with some specific behavior in mind that I think of as opening up -- or for that matter, with some specific behavior in mind that we call by a name we can agree on, whether our preferred name for it is "opening up" or not.

Some questions that I'm imagining being skipped over:

-- "Do you know what I mean by 'opening up'?"

-- "Do you recall ever opening up?"

-- "Can you picture yourself opening up?"

-- "How do you feel about opening up?"

-- "What seems to stop you from opening up?"

-- "What do you think would happen if you opened up?"

-- "Do you find opening up scary?"

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you and your T have actually had this conversation but I find myself imagining that you've skipped over at least some of it, and that's where I'm coming from with this reply.

/

Well this has been an ongoing process since the beginning. We've spent a LOT of time talking about how I don't like talking about my feelings- so I think that is what she means by "opening up" I spend a lot of time fidgeting and sitting in silence. I also thinks she might think it is "scary" for me because most of the time when she asks me a question about some feeling that maybe I had in the past, my mind usually can't recall anything.

I don't know. This is all sorts of confusing. In one way, I don't know HOW I can be more open. She has said to just say whatever is on my mind at the moment, but whenever she asks, literally nothing is! What am I supposed to be discussing? Sometimes I don't even know. This is also compounded by the fact that I struggle with even feeling deserving of "needing" therapy. I've not had a very difficult life, I have not been abused- yet I am afraid of life and being an adult! It is just too ridiculous.

OMG! I just wrote the longest reply ever and lost it! Maybe it was a sign that it was a little *too* long

Anyhow, to sum it up:

There is no pre-requisite for therapy. You absolutely deserve whatever support that you need and you WANT - whether it's from this board, or friends, or a therapist. It's not ridiculous at all.

I know you know I will say this...but CAN you tell her what is in your post?? I know for me, the most healing times in my therapy have always followed the scariest moments. It just seems to be how it works, at least for me.

Please be gentle with you...

[Perna]

Hi, velcro. I saw my T for 18 years and it took me 15 before I could talk to her and be open :-)

When you talk about the med thing, it just sounds like concern to me. After all, the meds you're on now seem to have helped you you said, so I would tend to want to try her suggestion, just go chat with your pdoc and see what they think? It's mostly depression to want to stay in bed, be Eeyoreish (love that phrase :-) I think; morning can be like Christmas when you were a kid, every day, when you're feeling good and engaged in Life fully. It should be hard to go to sleep because you're having too much fun or a case of can't wait to get out of bed because you get to do interesting things, what you had to stop doing to sleep for. . .

[Queenie55]

I feel this way- it is good to be cautious- I feel like T is not listening
I brought up that a man who has been stalking me-she challenged the statement- and said who said that - I have court order against him
It sometimes is not the right fit-
I am helped with social anxiety with t- going out more

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by velcro003

We've spent a LOT of time talking about how I don't like talking about my feelings- so I think that is what she means by "opening up"

That doesn't say much to me, I'm afraid. I'm trying to picture more specifically how a typical conversation of that kind might go: who brings up the subject, for instance, by saying what; in what context all this happens; where the conversation goes from there; what it means to you when you have one of these conversations; what it seems to mean to her...

It seems as though it could look like anything from:

T: Listen, buddy boy, the kind of therapy I do is all about talking about your feelings. So talk about your feelings, already!

V003: I don't feel anything.
(Aside) And if I ever do, you'll be the last one I tell.

...to:

T: (Aside) I'm so sure I've figured out what's with this guy, if only he'd ever say something, darn it!
So -- what are you feeling right now?

V003: I don't feel anything.
(Aside) Darn! What is she up to? I won't know how I should feel until I figure out why she keeps asking me!

OK, so both of the above are pretty silly -- but that's what I do when I have nothing but my imagination to go on, make stuff up. That's why I feel more at home when I have some details to work with: my wilder imaginings won't fit all those inconvenient facts so I'm forced to cut back to what's actually possible.

I spend a lot of time fidgeting and sitting in silence. I also thinks she might think it is "scary" for me because most of the time when she asks me a question about some feeling that maybe I had in the past, my mind usually can't recall anything.

What I picture you wondering about, consciously or otherwise, is: if you did recall something and tell her, what would she do with it?

I'm not telling you you shouldn't trust your T -- somehow I get the impression that you might not, I'm asking if there seems to be anything to that, and I guess I even slanted my two silly examples a bit in the sinister direction to address that.

In one way, I don't know HOW I can be more open. She has said to just say whatever is on my mind at the moment, but whenever she asks, literally nothing is!

I assume that in between times something is -- or you wouldn't have had anything to post here, for one thing. So does your mind go blank only when she asks you what's on your mind? Or the minute you see her? Or on your way to the office? What do you suppose would happen if you were to tell her -- in some detail -- what you're telling us?

This is also compounded by the fact that I struggle with even feeling deserving of "needing" therapy. I've not had a very difficult life, I have not been abused- yet I am afraid of life and being an adult! It is just too ridiculous.

By any chance do you use considerations like that to censor what you're willing to say (or perhaps think)?

If you were to take the position that you didn't know whether or not you were afraid of life and being an adult -- what, if anything, would happen to remind you that yes, you are? I was thinking that that, whatever it might look like, might be a suitable subject to discuss in therapy.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

OK, so both of the above are pretty silly -- but that's what I do when I have nothing but my imagination to go on, make stuff up. That's why I feel more at home when I have some details to work with: my wilder imaginings won't fit all those inconvenient facts so I'm forced to cut back to what's actually possible.

What I picture you wondering about, consciously or otherwise, is: if you did recall something and tell her, what would she do with it?
What do you mean, exactly? I've told her stuff (I would hope--as I've been there for 1.5 years!), and she just listens. She's never acted disbelieving, but I have this thing where I don't think I"ve really told her anything of importance, of anything BIG, you know? Just normal life stuff. Nothing I wouldn't be afraid to talk to anyone about--just my life story. I've had a rather boring, benign life. Why I am in therapy, I sometimes don't know.
I'm not telling you you shouldn't trust your T -- somehow I get the impression that you might not, I'm asking if there seems to be anything to that, and I guess I even slanted my two silly examples a bit in the sinister direction to address that.

I assume that in between times something is -- or you wouldn't have had anything to post here, for one thing. So does your mind go blank only when she asks you what's on your mind? Or the minute you see her? Or on your way to the office? What do you suppose would happen if you were to tell her -- in some detail -- what you're telling us?
My mind generally goes blank when I get there in her office. Unless I try really hard to hold onto some thoughts/feelings from the week before (I'll think over and over about it the night before, or re-read my journal entries, or jot some stuff down), I'm all like "I have nothing to say! Why am I here?!" And when she asks me "What are you thinking right now?" I generally am like...."Ummm...nothing?" I'm not sure what would happen if I talk to her about this stuff. Right now I am most concerned about her suggestion of me upping my meds. I JUST had the realization yesterday that I want her to believe in me, because I do not believe in myself. I don't believe I'll ever be happy, or ok, or anything but a loner the rest of my life. A part of me wants her to believe in my for me until I can, and that med comment makes me feel like she's exasperated at me. And I am scared to tell her this I know I should.
By any chance do you use considerations like that to censor what you're willing to say (or perhaps think)?
Probably. She once told me that I have a very strong censoring mechanism.
If you were to take the position that you didn't know whether or not you were afraid of life and being an adult -- what, if anything, would happen to remind you that yes, you are? I was thinking that that, whatever it might look like, might be a suitable subject to discuss in therapy.

Its true; but it doesn't feel like enough. So what?! So I'm a giant wuss who is afraid of being an adult. Its because I am unmotivated, lazy, lacks ambition. I still don't know what I want to do with my life (and I'm 28), and I don't know how I'm supposed to figure that out. Sigh.