Crazy session! I went in there in a very good, playful mood - T kept saying I seemed very upbeat. I asked T to think of anything that she'd like to revisit that we have discussed, T said she'd think about it but of course wanted me to answer that question - so we talked about a few things, including the EMDR. I asked T if she thought we should try it again, T said yes if I feel ready - I said I do. So T said we'd discuss it more and figure out if we want to do it for the same trauma, since we didn't get very far in September, or for something different that's come up for me.

I then asked T if she has any more therapy modes, T said any "tricks", that we could try - T said that was it for her. I told T that during EMDR and also a few weeks ago, T asked me about some feelings in my body - I told T that I think this would be very helpful in helping me be more aware of my body. T agreed and thanked me for bringing it up - she said she often forgets about that aspect of therapy when she's not doing EMDR and agreed that it's good to not just look at the mind but the body as well. And then she asked me what I was feeling then in my body! I said kinda tingly but in a good way, because I was excited!
(Edit: We also discussed trying traditional psychoanalysis - I'm curious and want to try it. T agreed but said she wants to discuss it more first before we do it.)

So then we went back to my mother - I actually expressed some anger toward her, that's a first for me - T and I were both smiling about that! T had some really good suggestions for ways I can take control of the relationship more and not be on the receiving end, but instead put my mother on the receiving end more, so I'll see if that works out.

At the end of the session, I reminded T again to consider the question I asked and also to think about if there's anything she's wanted to know that I've never discussed (my apologies to whoever posted that in another thread, I don't remember). T said she'd think about it, but she said that she believes that these topics come full-circle when the time is right - that even in a session, when we veer off-topic, that it all is a part of the big picture in her mind.

So we stood up, wishing each other a Happy New Year. We hugged, as we've been doing for awhile now, and I thanked T for everything. T pulled back much sooner than normal - I thought she was done hugging me, so I pulled back, too. But T reached back out and said she wanted to give me a kiss, then planted one on my cheek! I think it was because we were wishing each other a Happy New Year. And here in New York, everyone kisses each other on the cheek - it's very common, even in my professional organization it happens. I wasn't expecting it, but it was very nice of T!

As I was putting my coat on, I told T that it didn't seem like I'd been seeing her for over 8 months - T agreed and asked if it seemed longer or shorter to me - I said definitely shorter, T said for her as well.

And then as I was leaving, the girl waiting for T gave T a big smile as she walked into T's office, and I felt that pang of jealousy that someone else was now with T. Ah, the joys of therapy!

Happy New Year, all!

[lily99]

sounds like a lovely session dream I'm impressed with the way you can question your T like that... I'd be too shy! I think reading your posts are helping me be more brave though. and what a great way to end a session!!! I bet you'll be drawing on that memory for a while, I know I would

take care

Originally Posted by lily99

sounds like a lovely session dream I'm impressed with the way you can question your T like that... I'd be too shy! I think reading your posts are helping me be more brave though. and what a great way to end a session!!! I bet you'll be drawing on that memory for a while, I know I would

take care

Thank you, lily - so glad that you can be more brave with your T, it's so worth it!

I woke up this morning feeling so cared for and loved - I even cried a bit as I journaled about our wonderful session.

[mixedup_emotions]

Wow, what an awesome session! I think I'd be on cloud 9 for a while after a session like that!

...and I totally feel ya about the jealousy part....My T usually does not open the door to greet the next client until his previous client has left. I hate that I even have to see his other clients because it makes me feel as though I am less special...But those feelings tend to go away once we are in his office and he shows me that his focus is solely on me.

[chaotic13]

Sounds like a really nice end of the year session. I think it was interesting that your T did bite on your, "Is there anything you would like to revisit?" questions. I wonder if she would have if it had been worded slightly different. "Is there anything that you think I should revisit?" I don't think my T would have answered the first question either.She might have answered if it was rephrased to be about me.

[imapatient]

In my many years of experience and serious reading, everything I've ever read says good, ethical T's never kiss their patients in any way, shape or form. And I've lived in NY and not everyone kisses everyone. And, regardless of how prevalent it goes on elsewhere, even very professional settings, T's are held to a special professional standard. Perhaps in parts of Europe it's a little different, but the US is not a casual kissing culture like over there.

I'm not putting you down. But from what I've read about state Boards rules in different states and professional codes of conduct, kissing a patient in whatever form will get a T sanctioned or stripped of whatever certification/licensing. It's a major boundary violation regardless of how good it feels.

This is a red flag. Be careful.

Originally Posted by imapatient

In my many years of experience and serious reading, everything I've ever read says good, ethical T's never kiss their patients in any way, shape or form. And I've lived in NY and not everyone kisses everyone. And, regardless of how prevalent it goes on elsewhere, even very professional settings, T's are held to a special professional standard. Perhaps in parts of Europe it's a little different, but the US is not a casual kissing culture like over there.

I'm not putting you down. But from what I've read about state Boards rules in different states and professional codes of conduct, kissing a patient in whatever form will get a T sanctioned or stripped of whatever certification/licensing. It's a major boundary violation regardless of how good it feels.

This is a red flag. Be careful.

Thank you for your concern. I understand your point of view, but I saw nothing wrong with it. And if I do feel that T does something inappropriate, I will definitely bring it up with her to discuss it.

[BlueMoon6]

Dream- I read your post when you first posted it and wanted to respond but didnt have the time then. I love your therapist. Im not saying this because of the kiss or not to kiss, I find her very professional in every way. I grew up in NYCity and in my experience it is a huggy/kissy place. People are demonstative. But not only that, I love the way your therapist re-mothers you. I understand imaptient's concern's, I really do, but in this instance, considering her warm realtionship with you, I trust she knows what she is doing. She is giving you some no-strings-attached love.

What a great idea to work on your body. What will she do in that regard? I find the mind and body to one continuous entity, as opposed to two separate things. I find the more connected I feel to my body, the more grounded I am. When I live as if my mind is my body, I feel more peace.

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

Dream- I read your post when you first posted it and wanted to respond but didnt have the time then. I love your therapist. Im not saying this because of the kiss or not to kiss, I find her very professional in every way. I grew up in NYCity and in my experience it is a huggy/kissy place. People are demonstative. But not only that, I love the way your therapist re-mothers you. I understand imaptient's concern's, I really do, but in this instance, considering her warm realtionship with you, I trust she knows what she is doing. She is giving you some no-strings-attached love.

What a great idea to work on your body. What will she do in that regard? I find the mind and body to one continuous entity, as opposed to two separate things. I find the more connected I feel to my body, the more grounded I am. When I live as if my mind is my body, I feel more peace.

Thanks, Blue! I love how you put that.

I'm not sure what all we will do as far as focusing on my mind-body connection - so far, T has just asked me what I'm feeling in my body right now, or I just bring it up, and she asks me to focus on it and try to really describe it. One time, it was really amazing, the connection we made between what I was feeling in my body and where I was mentally - I hadn't even realized it until we talked it through. So I'd love to do more of that.

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by imapatient

In my many years of experience and serious reading, everything I've ever read says good, ethical T's never kiss their patients in any way, shape or form. And I've lived in NY and not everyone kisses everyone. And, regardless of how prevalent it goes on elsewhere, even very professional settings, T's are held to a special professional standard. Perhaps in parts of Europe it's a little different, but the US is not a casual kissing culture like over there.

My old T used to occasionally kiss me on the forehead. I saw nothing wrong with it. It's a sad day when everything a therapist does is dictated by fear of violating some professional standard. There is sometimes a fine line, but it gets ridiculous when therapy becomes so rigid. They need to be able to think outside the box.

[sunflower55]

Originally Posted by imapatient

In my many years of experience and serious reading, everything I've ever read says good, ethical T's never kiss their patients in any way, shape or form. And I've lived in NY and not everyone kisses everyone. And, regardless of how prevalent it goes on elsewhere, even very professional settings, T's are held to a special professional standard. Perhaps in parts of Europe it's a little different, but the US is not a casual kissing culture like over there.

I'm not putting you down. But from what I've read about state Boards rules in different states and professional codes of conduct, kissing a patient in whatever form will get a T sanctioned or stripped of whatever certification/licensing. It's a major boundary violation regardless of how good it feels.

This is a red flag. Be careful.

I'm sorry, dreamseeker9, but, I have to agree with imapatient.
Kissing a client is behavior that is unethical. There are boundaries that exist for a reason. And the reason is for your protection. You are there for a reason; you're in a vulnerable state right now, else you wouldn't be in therapy.

This type of behavior adds a confusion that should never have occured. Just look at the title of your thread if you don't think it does.

"...an unexpected kiss!"

You put an exclaimation point! You were surprised! You didn't expect it because it NEVER should have happened in a theraputic session.

Red flags, I agree. Please be careful.

Peace!

Originally Posted by sunflower55

I'm sorry, dreamseeker9, but, I have to agree with imapatient.
Kissing a client is behavior that is unethical. There are boundaries that exist for a reason. And the reason is for your protection. You are there for a reason; you're in a vulnerable state right now, else you wouldn't be in therapy.

This type of behavior adds a confusion that should never have occured. Just look at the title of your thread if you don't think it does. You put an exclaimation point! You were surprised! You didn't expect it because it NEVER should have happened in a theraputic session.

Red flags, I agree. Please be careful.

Peace!

Again, I appreciate the concern, but what exactly is it a red flag for? Do you think my T is going to seduce me? Hardly! It was a surprise, but it was because of the New Year, that's it. I am not confused by it at all, please don't put words in my mouth. Being surprised in the moment is far different than being confused - it can lead to confusion, but it didn't for me. And even though I am vulnerable in therapy, that doesn't mean that I won't stand up for myself if T does something I consider inappropriate.

I see no reason to address this one kiss - I know what spirit it was given, and that's all that matters to me.

[TayQuincy]

Dreamseeker, you know the intention behind the kiss and that is all that matters. I think it's easy to lose the human side of the therapeutic relationship and when that happens, I think we all lose something. I've heard of some pretty questionable behavior from T's on this forum, like male Ts holding hands with female clients, that seem more inappropriate to me than a peck on the forehead or cheek on New years, which is just an innocent expression of caring.

[sw628]

Dream))
Personally I enjoy reading your post as it's great to see someone making so much progress each week and willing to put in the hard work. I do have one bit of advice for you though,I would be very careful what i post on PC. I have a therapist who is VERY MUCH like yours,So much so that i think wer'e seeing the same T sometimes . That said, each therapeutic relationship is deeply personal and intimate, so some things are best left in the room with you and T. This will also shield what you post from misinterpretation and judgment.

Originally Posted by sw628

Dream))
Personally I enjoy reading your post as it's great to see someone making so much progress each week and willing to put in the hard work. I do have one bit of advice for you though,I would be very careful what i post on PC. I have a therapist who is VERY MUCH like yours,So much so that i think wer'e seeing the same T sometimes . That said, each therapeutic relationship is deeply personal and intimate, so some things are best left in the room with you and T. This will also shield what you post from misinterpretation and judgment.

Thanks, sw628. I wonder if we are seeing the same T! I think I do post too much detail sometimes, thanks for the words of caution. You are right that some things are best left between me and T - no one else can completely understand, as they aren't in that room with us.

[sunflower55]

I see no reason to address this one kiss

But you did, and that's why we addressed it.

I gave my opinion.
It's an unethical act for a therapist to kiss a client.
The kiss *is* the red flag. It *never* should have happened - ever!

If it were me, I'd change therapists immediately, and I'd inform the person running the clinic, (or whatever operation it is you go to), of what happened. That's me.
But, I stand by my opinion.
The behavior - the kiss - was an unethical act by the therapist.

Perhaps *you* are capable of standing up for yourself.
What of others who are not?
Is it ok for the therapist to seduce them because they are vulnerable?
(A rhetorical question, of course.)

See, *that's* why the kiss is a red flag,
and *that's* why the behavior is unethical.
It can - and it often does - lead to other,
and more dispicable behavior.

I'll address this issue no further.
I wish you well.

Peace!

Originally Posted by sunflower55

But you did, and that's why we addressed it.
I meant that I see no reason to address it with my T, not with you.

I gave my opinion.
It's an unethical act for a therapist to kiss a client.
The kiss *is* the red flag. It *never* should have happened - ever!
I've been reading up on this - technically, it's not an ethical violation in the eyes of everyone - professionals and patients alike. It was a kiss on the cheek! On the cheek! It's not wrong to me.

If it were me, I'd change therapists immediately, and I'd inform the person running the clinic, (or whatever operation it is you go to), of what happened. That's me.
But, I stand by my opinion.
The behavior - the kiss - was an unethical act by the therapist.
You have a right to your opinion - how about respecting my right to my opinion as well?

Perhaps *you* are capable of standing up for yourself.
What of others who are not?
Is it ok for the therapist to seduce them because they are vulnerable?
(A rhetorical question, of course.)
The idea of my T seducing patients is laughable. You have no idea what you're talking about.

See, *that's* why the kiss is a red flag,
and *that's* why the behavior is unethical.
It can - and it often does - lead to other,
and more dispicable behavior.
One well-wishing kiss on the cheek is not despicable behavior to me.

I'll address this issue no further.
I wish you well.
I wish you well, too, and everyone else - I don't need this judgement in my life. I'm fighting hard to refrain from judging you, but I do feel sorry for you.

Peace!

Peace out, PC'ers! I wish you all well on your journeys. Thank you for your support and advice.

Don't let the naysayers get you down. It sounds like it was just a friendly peck on the check. No big deal. You know it. You know your t, and you know the context. Glad you had such a nice session. Take care.

[sunflower55]

No one judged *you* dreamseeker.
But, saying that *I* have no idea what *I'm* talking about, when I very clearly asked a rhetorical question *is* judgemental. Please do be cautious about casting that first stone. For a rhetorical question is one that is meant to elicit thought. It might do you well to just ponder for a bit what I wrote.... And not pretend that it doesn't happen.

And no one, least of all me, called one kiss on the cheek dispicable behavior.

But, it's still inappropriate by a therapist in a therapist/Client relationship, if *only* due to the nature of that relationship. It's *not* a balanced, equal relationship at all. There is a power and dependency differential. And *that* is what makes the difference. I'm sorry if you are not able to see that yet.

The fact that *some* deem relations with clients ok is irrelevant. Some also think sex with children is ok. Does that make it so? No, and any sane person knows it isn't.

Your post raises many more questions.
The more important issue, though, is this.

"Me thinks thou dost protest too much.... "

Here is a post you may glean some important information from:
http://primal-page.com/sexclie.htm

Good luck to you.
Really.

Peace!

[BlueMoon6]

I'll add my 2 cents here. I'd feel judged it someone posted and told me to report my therapist and I disagreed. Id feel as if I was being judged for not red flagging my exploitive therapist.

I wonder, Sunflower, how much information you really have about Dream's relationship with her therapist, just how many posts of Dream's you have actually read over the last 6 months to understand precisely why and what her therapist is showing her, teaching her and giving to her. I think when we read other people's stories and struggles it is up to us to keep our own ethics in check and suspend judgement knowing full well that we could not possibly have all of the information needed to reach such conclusions.

And above all, that in the end, it is our job to keep the focus on ourselves and our own struggles, without pointing out what we may believe someone else has not seen yet or inferences about protesting too much. How much do you really know about what Dream has seen yet?

Dream- I do hope you will take your responses with a grain of salt and understand that in a public forum like this people may respond out of reflex and ingnorance. Not knowing or understanding a relationship and then giving advice. Relationships, especially theraputic ones, are more complex than that and I hope you understand that not everyone takes that truth into account when responding. They like to show you that they know better.

[chancy512]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I'll add my 2 cents here. I'd feel judged it someone posted and told me to report my therapist and I disagreed. Id feel as if I was being judged for not red flagging my exploitive therapist.

I wonder, Sunflower, how much information you really have about Dream's relationship with her therapist, just how many posts of Dream's you have actually read over the last 6 months to understand precisely why and what her therapist is showing her, teaching her and giving to her. I think when we read other people's stories and struggles it is up to us to keep our own ethics in check and suspend judgement knowing full well that we could not possibly have all of the information needed to reach such conclusions.

And above all, that in the end, it is our job to keep the focus on ourselves and our own struggles, without pointing out what we may believe someone else has not seen yet or inferences about protesting too much. How much do you really know about what Dream has seen yet?

Dream- I do hope you will take your responses with a grain of salt and understand that in a public forum like this people may respond out of reflex and ingnorance. Not knowing or understanding a relationship and then giving advice. Relationships, especially theraputic ones, are more complex than that and I hope you understand that not everyone takes that truth into account when responding. They like to show you that they know better.

Dream~ My T. and I give a kiss on the cheek after every session. sometimes after a hard session I can tell she hugs me a tiny bit harder. It always makes me feel better. I see NOTHING wrong at all with your T giving you a kiss. One time we were chatting and I she asked if I was mad at her and I repsonded with " are you serious? How could I be mad ar you I love you" she looked at me and said she loved me too. All in chat nothing else. Hug your T, except her kiss and feel good.

[sunflower55]

With due respect, BlueMoon, I *never* told her what to do.
Here is my exact quote:

If it were me, I'd change therapists immediately, and I'd inform the person running the clinic, (or whatever operation it is you go to), of what happened. That's me.

Emphasis added to point out that I was clearly speaking of *me.*
I did not tell *her* what to do.
Therefore, I was not giving her advice, or judging her.
And the focus was on *me* in a given situation.
WOW!

And yes, she should take anything said on a forum with a grain of salt. ANYTHING.

But, that judgement is surely being cast.
Afterall, she wrote the post to elicit responses. I'm sorry she didn't like some of them, (not just mine.) It only shows that she needs to learn to take the good with the bad.

When anyone posts, they are going to get responses they may not always like -- especially if they post controversal things! And a kiss from a therapist *is* controversal. I didn't cause that controversy. And she herself admitted it. So why get so hyped up about what *I* would do?
Please!

Peace!

[TayQuincy]

Originally Posted by sunflower55

It's an unethical act for a therapist to kiss a client.
The kiss *is* the red flag. It *never* should have happened - ever!

I think the issue isn't your opinion necessarily, but your saying an innocent kiss on the cheek is unethical. And then throwing in a comparison to people thinking having sex with children is okay. That is ludicrous.

I think sunflower that you have gone way overboard here. Lots of things *could* lead to despicable behavior. How about hugs, handholding, just being in the same room alone with T? Really anything can lead to anything. Sex with a client is unethical. A kiss on the lips is also wrong. A kiss on the cheek or forehead in circumstances such as dream describes is not unethical. It's not so black and white. Context matters. Would you say that a therapist giving an unconscious client CPR and mouth to mouth is unethical? This kind of hysteria makes therapists afraid to be human with clients and hurts everyone.

[ECHOES]

I don't see where dreamseeker asked for any opinions or judgements or advice.
Her post was sharing her joy and happiness.


Not every opinion needs to be said out loud.
Let's not be kill-joys.

[Hearty]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I don't see where dreamseeker asked for any opinions or judgements or advice.
Her post was sharing her joy and happiness.


Not every opinion needs to be said out loud.
Let's not be kill-joys.

Yes, you seem to be in a good place with your therapist, and I'm happy for you.

As Farmergirl said, you know your T and the context of the "kiss on the cheek".

Your T sounds very warm and real...without the red flags.

I'm happy you have a caring therapist, and glad that you shared your T moments with us.

Take care, and Happy New Year to you, too, dreamseeker.