[peaches100]

Some of you know that i was recently triggered by finding out about a sui on the PC board -- especially when i read her thread about how bad her life was going, in addition to her t leaving to take a new job without giving her any way to contact her. It just broke my heart to read about her experience and left me feeling angry at her t for not helping her transition. It also sparked my abandonment fears about my own t retiring soon and not having any further contact with her.

So i talked about it on my session. I said how mad i felt that her t left her without contact when everything was going wrong for her. I told her that cutting off all contact at termination felt mean and wrong to me. Why does reaching a state of healing and independence mean it's necessary to cut off all contact? I used the example of a parent with a grown child who leaves home. Do they say "Goodbye, have a nice life. We won't ever talk or see one another again, but remember the nice memories." It's true we aren't our t's children. But for some of us who never had a close relationship with a parent, the t-client relationship is the closest thing we've ever had to it! Why spend all that time trying to build up their trust and form a relationship with the client, only to cut off all contact later, once they have become close and attached? How is that any different from past relationships where they've learned to love somebody who abandoned them?

My t listened to all i had to say. Then she said that when the time for termination comes, we would work out together how our relationship would change. She asked if I wanted to talk about how it might change, and I said Yes. She asked me what would I like to see happen with our relationship? For some reason, I was afraid to say anything. She asked me how I would feel about a once-per-month check-in phone call. To be honest, that sounded reasonable to me, but what I was thinking about was what if I never get to actually see her and be with her again, and that made me cry. I told her I didn’t think I could talk about it after all.

She then asked if she could come sit next to me. She asked if she could touch me, and put her arm around my shoulder. She told me that with long-term therapy, endings are difficult, and that there is attachment on both sides. She empathized with how sad I felt, and said that in some ways it could be as painful as a romantic breakup. She said she doesn’t have much experience when it comes to terminating with a long-term client like me. But she talked about how we have to learn to let go in life. She talked about the cycles of life on the earth, birth and death, and about how even the trees lose their leaves in the winter, and that loss is a part of life. She also asked me how my religious beliefs could help me in learning to deal with the loss of relationships. So we discussed that also.

[peaches100]

I don't think she intended for me to have a check-in call every month indefinitely. But just that the relationship would not have to end suddenly when she retired. It could kind of wind down slowly and that occasional brief contact to let her know how my life is going would be OK.

I'm so glad she's not retiring yet. The thought of not being able to see her anymore one day really, really hurts. I'm glad, though, that she said there's attachment on both sides with long-term therapy. I've been in therapy with her for several years now, and it would feel awful to think i'm just a "number" or her "3 o'clock."

[cmac13]

WOW! I can relate to your two posts. My therapist has been working with me for 19 years. She is now 66. She retired from her fulltime job as a therapist in a hospital last year but continues in her private practice 4 days a week. She is in private practice with 2 other therapists. She told me that they are moving their offices in about a month back to the original one we started out in 19 years ago. She told me she signed on with her colleagues for 2 years but was not sure after that. Why do I feel so anxious. 2 years is a long time but it really worries me because this is the closest I have ever come to having a caring compasionate mother like figure in my life and I cannot imagine not knowing her. I try to talk about it but I never can really get the words out.

[doogie]

My t always says "I'm here until you reach your goals." I have such a hard time trusting her to not leave me in the midst of my trauma and pain, but then I think if she does stay how terrible it will be to "leave" her. I can't imagine, and I don't want to. We haven't even talked about it. Of course, I feel like I'm going to be in therapy forever at this point, so maybe it won't be an issue. LOL

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by cmac13

WOW! I can relate to your two posts. My therapist has been working with me for 19 years. She is now 66. She retired from her fulltime job as a therapist in a hospital last year but continues in her private practice 4 days a week. She is in private practice with 2 other therapists. She told me that they are moving their offices in about a month back to the original one we started out in 19 years ago. She told me she signed on with her colleagues for 2 years but was not sure after that. Why do I feel so anxious. 2 years is a long time but it really worries me because this is the closest I have ever come to having a caring compasionate mother like figure in my life and I cannot imagine not knowing her. I try to talk about it but I never can really get the words out.

Hi Cmac13,

Yes, we do have some commonalities. My t is in her early 60's, and she had told me previously that when she retired, she would go back to having a private practice and continue seeing me as a patient. However, a few months later, when i mentioned something about termination, she said "If I were retiring now, I'd be helping you transition and look for another therapist." I immediately thought, "But what about the idea of continuing your practice when you retire?" But i didn't have the heart to bring it up. Since then, I've assumed that she must have given up on the idea of continuing to be a t when she retires. I've wanted to ask her about it, but i feel wrong about it. I don't want to make her feel obligated somehow to keep seeing me as a patient if she wants to just retire and be done with it and enjoy her life.

I understand your worries, even though you don't know what's coming 2 years from now. I figure i may only have another 1 or 2 years with my t before she retires. I wonder if I'll be ready to terminate therapy when she retires, or if i'll need to start with someone new? After all this time with my t, i don't want to start all over. I think i'd rather be ready to end therapy myself at the same time, if it can work out that way.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by doogie

My t always says "I'm here until you reach your goals." I have such a hard time trusting her to not leave me in the midst of my trauma and pain, but then I think if she does stay how terrible it will be to "leave" her. I can't imagine, and I don't want to. We haven't even talked about it. Of course, I feel like I'm going to be in therapy forever at this point, so maybe it won't be an issue. LOL

Doogie,

Try to trust your t's words. It doesn't sound like she has any plans to go anywhere. Barring some kind of emergency situation, she will probably be there to help you until you get to the point where you're ready to end therapy.

[peaches100]

I've gotten so few responses, i'm wondering . . .

did i say something wrong? have i made board members angry with me? I hope not!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I've gotten so few responses, i'm wondering . . . did i say something wrong? have i made board members angry with me? I hope not!

Dear Peaches, if someone asks a direct question, there should be an answer of some kind......I know if I asked you a direct question I would wait for an answer.

in your post, the only question I find in there is this one >> Why does reaching a state of healing and independence mean it's necessary to cut off all contact?
and I don't think it should necessarily be so; I know I am a long way from being "done" but my T has already told me that I can always come back if I need help. Still she is going to retire within the next few years I am sure; that's not the same as just terminating; and for the T to take a new job somewhere else is another set of circumstances again. For retirement I have no answer; for moving, it seems just to myself that contact now and then should not be that big a deal.

As a Catholic I do not equate one's Confessor with one's T, but there are certainly some similarities in the two trust relationships; I have had two Confessors in the past who knew me for 6-7 yr periods each, and have now transferred, but even after 15-20 yrs I would not hesitate to contact either of them to get help that only they could give, just to me, and I know that they wouldn't mind giving it.

[peaches100]

Thanks, sittingatwatersedge. You're right. I didn't really ask a direct question in my post that i was waiting for any specific answer to.

I think i'm just feeling insecure today for some reason!

[sittingatwatersedge]

support - that's what we are all about.

It sounds as if you and yr T have a close relationship. If my T asked to sit beside me and hold my hand I might faint. Last week the cleaning crew or someone moved her chair a few inches (inches) and it totally freaked her out till she had it moved back and angled just right.

From what your T said, she obviously cares for you Peaches.

[cmac13]

Peaches - It's funny I brought it up to my therapist the other day that I have been meeting so many social workers in my new job who are therapists who are all in private practice into their 70's. Because of the job I do as a social worker I come into contact with them quite often. Anyways her response to me was "Well Yes! many work into their 80's if they can!" OK I'm crossing my fingers!! I absolutely love working with my therapist and after 19 years I cannot help but wonder how it would be to not have her around...next session is Saturday. She made me a tape of her reading a couple of my favorite children's books

[Sannah]

Peaches, it's 2 years down the road, living in the present is much better.

[TayQuincy]

Well, I don't know who you are talking about, but it is really triggering to hear about a suicide on the PC board and left to wonder who it was, what happened. It makes me very sad.

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I've gotten so few responses, i'm wondering . . .

did i say something wrong? have i made board members angry with me? I hope not!

Peaches,
I don't think you have said anything wrong. I tend to reply more often to those who take their time to respond to my posts as well. It is funny how even online there are problems with communication and hurt feelings. or feelings of insecurities. Also it can be difficult to join into some very firmly established relationships that are already developed on PC.

[rainbow8]

Hi Peaches. I just want to give you some hugs. I didn't reply because we've talked about this a lot.

[WePow]

Peaches, sorry I could not reply to your post before now. It has been a very emotional week for me. Very. I did think of you though a lot this week with this whole thing. I do not know who the person was on PC but I think I know. And it made me sad to know that there is so much pain in this world. And it hurts to know that there were no words to help that dear one.

I talked with my T about this on Wed. And he said that a good T does not just leave a client in a way that will hurt them. The T has too much invested in the client's health. It would be like a doctor getting a patient all fixed up only to give them a poisonous cupcake as they were leaving. He told me it should not happen that way in therapy - at all. And he was very mad that a T did that to a client and the result was self termination. He was MAD.

You know what you have with your T. You know it is "for real" even when fear makes you doubt. Let yourself hold onto that. You do deserve that.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Why spend all that time trying to build up their trust and form a relationship with the client, only to cut off all contact later, once they have become close and attached? How is that any different from past relationships where they've learned to love somebody who abandoned them?

. . .

She talked about the cycles of life on the earth, birth and death, and about how even the trees lose their leaves in the winter, and that loss is a part of life. She also asked me how my religious beliefs could help me in learning to deal with the loss of relationships.

One thing neither of you seems to have mentioned, is your part in creating that therapeutic relationship. I can pretty much guarantee that she couldn't have done it without you. Do you suppose there's anything you got out of it that you could go on to bring to your other relationships, including maybe with another T someday?

[cmac13]

I definitely cannot imagine starting over with another therapist. This process of attachment has taken me a long, long time (19 years). She has been so patient and compassionate. I will work with her until she totally retires. We talked in our session today and she plans to continue working with no real plans to totally retire anytime soon. I told her it worried me that she told me she signed a 2 year lease with her colleagues in a new office across the hall and that it felt like I only had her for 2 more years. She assured me that if and when she retires that I would still be able to reach her by phone should I need her and that it is a long way off and I should focus on the present. But she is 66 years old. You would never know looking at her though. I am lucky to have her in my life. I thank God everyday!!!

[peaches100]

Cmac,

It's nice that she made that recording for you! That's something that you will be able to keep and listen to over again, maybe for years to come. That's special.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Kacey2

Peaches,
I don't think you have said anything wrong. I tend to reply more often to those who take their time to respond to my posts as well. It is funny how even online there are problems with communication and hurt feelings. or feelings of insecurities. Also it can be difficult to join into some very firmly established relationships that are already developed on PC.

Kacey,

I'm sorry! From your message, it sounds like you've posted to me before and i didn't reply. I really apologize for that. I try my best to respond, but sometimes i have trouble keeping up, and sometimes i post a general thank you post to all who responded to a thread. It's something i've felt bad about at times, that i can't always respond to each individual. But maybe it's something i need to make sure i do from now on. I certainly wouldn't want to hurt anybody's feelings who took the time to respond to me. I always appreciate anyone who replies, and take into consideration what they've said. But if i don't aknowledge them individually, they have no way of knowing i appreciate their support/words of advice.

Again, i apologize if i hurt your feelings.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Peaches, it's 2 years down the road, living in the present is much better.

Sannah,

I know. I have to keep telling myself to stay in the moment. Over and over again. Otherwise, my mind automatically goes to past traumas or future worries.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by TayQuincy

Well, I don't know who you are talking about, but it is really triggering to hear about a suicide on the PC board and left to wonder who it was, what happened. It makes me very sad.

Tayquincy,

I'm sorry if my post triggered you. I didn't reveal who it was, or what happened that led up to the sui, because i felt that it would be even more triggering for people on PC to know the details. It may have been bad judgement for me to say anything about it at all, except that i felt i needed some support myself. I'm sorry if i should have just stayed quiet.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Hi Peaches. I just want to give you some hugs. I didn't reply because we've talked about this a lot.

Thanks for your support, Rainbow.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by WePow

Peaches, sorry I could not reply to your post before now. It has been a very emotional week for me. Very. I did think of you though a lot this week with this whole thing. I do not know who the person was on PC but I think I know. And it made me sad to know that there is so much pain in this world. And it hurts to know that there were no words to help that dear one.

I talked with my T about this on Wed. And he said that a good T does not just leave a client in a way that will hurt them. The T has too much invested in the client's health. It would be like a doctor getting a patient all fixed up only to give them a poisonous cupcake as they were leaving. He told me it should not happen that way in therapy - at all. And he was very mad that a T did that to a client and the result was self termination. He was MAD.

You know what you have with your T. You know it is "for real" even when fear makes you doubt. Let yourself hold onto that. You do deserve that.

WePow,

Thanks for telling me what your therapist said. I needed to hear that a t worth their salt would NEVER leave a client without support. I do know that this person's t was quite new, and that she did give her a packet of info that she hoped would help her. Her t also wanted her to transition to somebody else, which she would not agree to. So her t did not leave her entirely in the lurch. But in this case, the woman needed continued contact with her t, and should have had it. And that's what bothered me so much.

I wonder if, when her t took the new job, maybe this client never asked for continued contact, but later just wished she had it?? It may be that her need for continued contact never got voiced, and so the t didn't realize it was necessary. We can't really know for sure exactly what happened. But i feel more reassured in hearing from my t, and from your t, that this was an very unusual incident, and that the majority of t's take their clients needs very seriously and do not abandon them in times of need.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

One thing neither of you seems to have mentioned, is your part in creating that therapeutic relationship. I can pretty much guarantee that she couldn't have done it without you. Do you suppose there's anything you got out of it that you could go on to bring to your other relationships, including maybe with another T someday?

Foolzero,

Well, I am really, really hoping that the t relationship will help me learn both how to attach securely to people who are safe and healthy for me, and also to learn how to let go if and when it's necessary to say goodbye. The idea of loss is absolutely, entirerly terrifying for me. So at this point, i'm just trying to learn that it's safe and OK to attach to some people, and that they won't hurt you.

Lately, i've been starting to think about who i might want to have as friends, and if they would be a good match for me. I have a tendency to choose controlling, critical people as close friends, and then to idealize them and subjucate myself, hoping they will love me and feel protective toward me. I know now it's a "mother thing" i need to work through in therapy. But i'm trying this time to find friends who are more like peers, ones who i don't have to work so hard to have their love and acctance, and ones who love and accept me the way i am, instead of wanting to fix or reform me.