[Tiberius]

I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I have thought about learning to deal with transference the same way that therapists learn to deal with countertransference. I just need to learn how they do it and the rest should be a matter of practice.

Can someone please recommend me a book that might help me find the information that I am looking for?

[Kacey2]

Tiberius,
I have read your posts and one thing that is clear to me is that you are really struggling with your t relationship right now. And oh how I can relate to that. A part of me knows exactly what you are saying and I see your pain and frustrations. The other part of me also wants to jump in and defend my fellow PCers who have formed a very strong bond with their ts and are fairly stable in their t relationships right now. I know it only takes one thread to trigger doubts and fears in each of our own delicate t situations.

What I can tell you for sure. And the reason I can tell you is that I have been there, and still go there, is that you do not want to try to read on this transferance yourself and navigate solo on this situation. The writings will trigger you and make you angry. It will lead to a larger rift in your therapy than you feel now.

One way to ease into this would be to ask your t if they can recommend any material for you to read regarding transferance. This will definately give your t the opening that they need to lead you through the conversation that needs to happen. You don't have to spill all of the beans if you know what I mean. You could simply admit to feeling unsettled about the t relationship and you could also say that you read other peoples struggles on PC and you are just having thoughts about the psychotherapy proccess in general.

This is what I have done with my t and it has NOT been easy by any means. I do not have the magical answers for you. I can tell you that I understand your pain and I hope you can find a way to talk to t about it and get the conversation going to see where it can take you. Good Luck.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I have thought about learning to deal with transference the same way that therapists learn to deal with countertransference. I just need to learn how they do it and the rest should be a matter of practice.

Can someone please recommend me a book that might help me find the information that I am looking for?

here the mental health community learn to deal with countertransference (therapists projecting their own problems into the client) through our training sessions ie role playing, lectures, films of actual sessions to critique. Alot of our training centers on the dangers of what our unresolved issues / hiding holding unresolved emotions about our clients ie love, hate, frustrations.. could do to our clients. just like children can pick up what their parents are feeling no matter how hard they try to hide it, our clients can also pick up on our hidden emotions. So this issue is a major part of our seminars, workshops, rolee playing trainings.

We are also required to have their own therapists and also required to meet with a supervisor.

Being in therapy our selves we therapists can resolve any of our personal and work related issues during our own therapy sessions. this way we dont bring them in to our sessions with the clients. meeting with the supervisors ensures the therapist has the clients best interests at heart and isnt reading into the sessions things that are not actually there.

one of our work rules where I am is that if any one of us has any attachments, or negative reactions to a client we must take ourselves off the case, refer the client to another therapist within or outside our agencies that can work with the clients issues objectively and with clarity without our emotions, for or against that client.

the clients best interests must always come first before our own.

we also give our clients a form to fill out where they get to evaluate us and our performance, interactions with them and whether there are things we should be working on that we havent gotten to, along with a suggestion question asking if they have any suggestions that they feel would better our interactions with them.

the best thing I can suggest is that when you are experiencing transference or counter transference in your sessions talk with your treatment providers. many times all that is needed to fix something like this is talking over the points where there may be some miscommunication leading each other (therapist and client) to read things with in each other that are not actually there during the conversations.

and by all means if you feel your therapist is projecting their own issues on to you speak up and let them know. The only way we therapists know when there is a problem is if our clients speak up. we are not magical, nor can we read our clients minds.

[ECHOES]

Working through this is part of therapy. I think you might be wanting a less painful shortcut, which is understandable, but another kind of avoidance. On the other hand, I like to know more about things, so ...

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/tra...psychotherapy/

http://bpd.about.com/od/treatments/a/transference.htm

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_d...pe=doc&id=8253

http://apt.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/6/1/57

http://www.toddlertime.com/mh/terms/...sference-2.htm

http://www.borderlinedisorders.com/t...chotherapy.php

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

here the mental health community learn to deal with countertransference (therapists projecting their own problems into the client) through our training sessions ie role playing, lectures, films of actual sessions to critique. Alot of our training centers on the dangers of what our unresolved issues / hiding holding unresolved emotions about our clients ie love, hate, frustrations.. could do to our clients. just like children can pick up what their parents are feeling no matter how hard they try to hide it, our clients can also pick up on our hidden emotions. So this issue is a major part of our seminars, workshops, rolee playing trainings.

Any books in particular that you think I might want to read?

Originally Posted by amandalouise

We are also required to have their own therapists and also required to meet with a supervisor.

Must you receive therapy within your agency or are you expected to receive therapy elsewhere? Who pays for it? But regardless of who pays for the therapist's therapy, what if the therapist is a psychologically stable person and doesn't have any issues that need to be resolved with the help of a therapist? Concerning the supervisor, what are his/her typical qualifications? And what exactly do you discuss with him? Do you share with him your thoughts about your patients' problems and ask for suggestions on how to deal with them?

Originally Posted by amandalouise

Being in therapy our selves we therapists can resolve any of our personal and work related issues during our own therapy sessions. this way we dont bring them in to our sessions with the clients

Please illustrate with an example.

Originally Posted by amandalouise

meeting with the supervisors ensures the therapist has the clients best interests at heart and isnt reading into the sessions things that are not actually there.

For example?

Originally Posted by amandalouise

one of our work rules where I am is that if any one of us has any attachments, or negative reactions to a client we must take ourselves off the case, refer the client to another therapist within or outside our agencies that can work with the clients issues objectively and with clarity without our emotions, for or against that client.

Negative emotions is self-explanatory but what exactly constitutes an attachment to a client? Do you mean like romantic feelings or just liking them too much?

Originally Posted by amandalouise

and by all means if you feel your therapist is projecting their own issues on to you speak up and let them know. The only way we therapists know when there is a problem is if our clients speak up. we are not magical, nor can we read our clients minds.

What would be an example of a therapist projecting his or her issues onto the client? Do you mean like the therapist who gives the client an attitude?

[ECHOES]

When we project onto the therapist, for example we react to them 'as if' they were someone from our past, that is tranference. We transferred those feelings from the initial experience and person onto the present experience and person.

If a therapist reacts to the patient the same way, it is countertransference. If the therapist finds him/herself feeling anger because the patient is being demeaning and that anger is coming from the therapist's past experience of his parent being demeaning, then that is counter-transference. The therapist is reacting from his past experience and person and no longer being therapeutic. So the therapist who has had his/her own psychotherapy/psychoanalysis and knows him/herself well, is more likely to be aware of the counter-transference right when it happens and hopefully before it affects the therapy.

Simple transference happens every day. The best example I know is seeing an older gentleman at the grocery store who reminds you of your favorite and kind uncle, so you immediately have warm and kind feelings about this gentlemen, who in fact you know nothing about. The feelings (and attributes) for the person from the past have been transferred to the person in the present.

[Melbadaze]

The biggest relief I had in dealing with these types of feelings was when after 6yrs found the courage to tell T I loved her...it was so scary up till that point....Ts eyes and whole body language when I told her really helped ...cant et that out of a book..therapy is about responses to our feelings...changing how we feel about ourselves when we have such feelings especially if our feelings had been shamed growing up.....afraid that if I let my guard down T would somehow change into my past...she didn't she took my ove foe her and didn't try to deny it or change it...

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

How are therapists taught to deal with countertransference?

Different training programs will deal with it differently. Here are some ways therapists might deal with countertransference:
1) Self awareness. If the therapist knows himself well, he will be aware when countertransferential feelings arise and can apply diligence to managing them so as not to harm the client.
2) Supervision. This means the therapist sees a therapist for advice on his clients. The therapist can talk to this supervisory therapist about his feelings toward clients, where they are coming from, how to manage them, etc. This leads to greater self awareness (#1). Tiberius, you also asked what qualifications the therapist's therapist (who provides supervision) would have. I believe this is determined at the state level. In my state, the Ts providing supervision must have training in supervision and have some sort of certificate in this. You can look this up for your own state.
3) Transparency. Not all Ts do this, but my T does. When he is feeling something transferential towards me, he tells me. By identifying it openly, and laying it out on the table before us, it is somehow disarmed and loses its power. I appreciate my T's honesty in these instances. It makes him seems more human to me to know that his own feelings sometimes arise. I know some Ts would not be transparent with their clients as it goes against their training (e.g. some therapists believe they should be a "blank slate" to the client).

These are just 3 ways a therapist might deal with countertransference. Not every T will use all of them, and some Ts might use other ways.

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I have thought about learning to deal with transference the same way that therapists learn to deal with countertransference.

Do you think any of the 3 ways I've mentioned might be helpful to you?

There are many books on how to be an effective therapist, which encompasses managing countertransference. I don't have a specific recommendation but there are probably a lot of books of this sort that can be found by searching Amazon (or your public library database).

[amandalouise]

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
here the mental health community learn to deal with countertransference (therapists projecting their own problems into the client) through our training sessions ie role playing, lectures, films of actual sessions to critique. Alot of our training centers on the dangers of what our unresolved issues / hiding holding unresolved emotions about our clients ie love, hate, frustrations.. could do to our clients. just like children can pick up what their parents are feeling no matter how hard they try to hide it, our clients can also pick up on our hidden emotions. So this issue is a major part of our seminars, workshops, rolee playing trainings.

Any books in particular that you think I might want to read?

Like I stated we get our training through seminars workshops and roleplaying, these are not done with books. they are taught through mental health providers that are faccilitating the classes. they them selves have been in the business for many years some for decades.

my actual book learning is textbooks you can find in any state university college on the topics of psychologiy and applications of psychiatric therapy modules taught by any professor of psychology.

its very easy to register at any USA community and state colleges for any field of study including psychology. write to colleges you think you would like to take psychology classes at, tell them you are interested in the psychology field. they will send you information about their pyschology classes. Choose your class. go tot he colleges registration office and they can help you register for classes and fill out financial aid forms if needed. then when the classes begin you are all set.

for books that fit your actual situation talk to your treatment providers. they will know which books will be of best use to you.

if you dont want to discuss this problem with your treatment providers you can go to any library, use their card catalog or computer to access their books about psychology. then you can take all the time you need looking through the books and decide for yourself which books best fit you.

Im not your treatment providers, I dont know what the full situation is nor do I know what your level of understanding is about psychology and all that so what I might suggest for you could do more harm than good. its best that you either contact your treatment providers or visit your nearest library and decide for yourself what best fits you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
We are also required to have their own therapists and also required to meet with a supervisor.

Must you receive therapy within your agency or are you expected to receive therapy elsewhere? Who pays for it? But regardless of who pays for the therapist's therapy, what if the therapist is a psychologically stable person and doesn't have any issues that need to be resolved with the help of a therapist? Concerning the supervisor, what are his/her typical qualifications? And what exactly do you discuss with him? Do you share with him your thoughts about your patients' problems and ask for suggestions on how to deal with them?

here we have our own therapy outside of our work places. if we were being treated by the same people that we have for co workers that would be a conflict of interest. kind of like a police officer doesnt investigate crimes commited by or against their relatives and doctors dont treat their own families, and judges dont preside over cases where they personally know the people involved with the trial.

each location (state, country...) has their own requirements for what constitutes what in careers. to find out what is required where you are contact your treatment providers or any mental health agency. they can tell you how to find that information for your location.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
Being in therapy our selves we therapists can resolve any of our personal and work related issues during our own therapy sessions. this way we dont bring them in to our sessions with the clients

Please illustrate with an example.

example about 6 months to a year ago I was on the job and was a witness to a domestic violence murder. Having someone kill your client before your very eyes causes PTSD symptoms. Instead of going right back to work and projecting on my clients I was full of anxiety, and scared that other clients abusive partners, spouses would do the same thing, I took some time off and addressed my PTSD symptoms and that situation of having a client murdered in front of me up with my own treatment providers.

now when Im with a client I dont sit there outwardly addressing their problems while inside feeling panicy, anxious that any second that clients partner is going to barge in with a gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
meeting with the supervisors ensures the therapist has the clients best interests at heart and isnt reading into the sessions things that are not actually there.

For example?

Example many of my clients are survivors of abuse. Im a survivor of abuse. having this common ground can be hard. while working and hearing clients stories you think - this is what needs to be done. but because of that common ground there. I have to think - is this what is right for the client or is this what I would like to happen because I would have wanted that to happen. bouncing my thoughts on the case around with my supervisor gives clarity to the issue so that the plans for my client is whats best for the client not whats best for me.

another example is here on psych central. read the posts and you will find many cases where we all react to the posts according to how we perceive the posts and what we think is right because of our own common grounds. sometimes it takes the objectivity of the moderators to show us that not everyone benefits from the same things that we ourselves benefit from. Sometimes its anothers point of view that shows us not all posts are about us when someone here is having a problem.

thats what meetings with a supervisor is like. having someone to bounce ideas with and have another persons point of view to ensure everything going on in the therapy sessions is for the clients not the therapists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
one of our work rules where I am is that if any one of us has any attachments, or negative reactions to a client we must take ourselves off the case, refer the client to another therapist within or outside our agencies that can work with the clients issues objectively and with clarity without our emotions, for or against that client.

Negative emotions is self-explanatory but what exactly constitutes an attachment to a client? Do you mean like romantic feelings or just liking them too much?

sometimes it is romantic feelings, sometimes it isnt. sometimes its just that the client and therapist have so many common grounds that its hard on both the client and therapist. sometimes its a conflict of interest and treatment options, sometimes its because the therapists own personal views on their clients.

example..say you had cancer and you had a therapist with the american cancer society who had cancer.

you decide you dont want any more chemo, refuse any meds, refuse any management options and your therapist thinks you should keep going through treatment, keep trying to follow your treatment plans.

the therapist is hiding anger, frustration and doesnt want to be your treatment provider any more because they feel you are giving up, too hard to work with now because you are refusing to participate in treatment.

it doesnt do you any good trying to take with a therapist who cant make eye contact with you, their jaw muscles clenching and unclenching, fidgiting with this and that, constantly eyeing the clock, constantly focusing on what you wont do vs what you think is best for you.. all thats going to make you feel is my therapist hates me.. my therapist this or that..

with this therapist harboring unresolved feelings about you it in turn affects you, no matter how hard the therapist hides it. So its better for a therapist to go to their boss or supervisor, tell them the situation and have your case assigned to someone else who is better at this kind of thing or have the therapist refer you to the agency that deals with people who have decided no more cancer treatment which is hospice program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amandalouise
and by all means if you feel your therapist is projecting their own issues on to you speak up and let them know. The only way we therapists know when there is a problem is if our clients speak up. we are not magical, nor can we read our clients minds.

What would be an example of a therapist projecting his or her issues onto the client? Do you mean like the therapist who gives the client an attitude?

no clients and therapists give each other "attitude" all the time. its comes with the job that clients are not going to be receptive to everything and vice versa. thats human nature from being individuals.

take the situation above... my having witnessed a clients murder. my projecting on you the client would be my thinking every time you raised your voice even if you are doing it out of excitement and happiness I feel you were getting volatile and any minute expecting you to get violent so I tell you to settle down and quit being so volatile.

another example I have a bad day so I assume you are having a bad day. you come in sit down and I say to you.. rough day huh without even finding out from you that you in fact had a really good day.

[Gently1]

http://www.hypnosisdepot.com/Psychot...nd_of_Love.php

someone posted this somewhere some time, and it answered some questions for me

Tiberius hope you find what you need.

[Christina86]

Hey Tiberius,

As someone who is (slowly) training to do counselling but who is also in therapy:

Lemme tell you, counter transference and transference are two wayyyyy different ballgames.

Therapists/counsellors are given tools to deal with their own issues and countertransference. They also dont work through their own issues with their clients -- they do it through supervision with a colleague, or with their own therapist.

Now, transference is something that happens in a lot (if not most/all) of therapeutic relationships. It just means you've got something that may be unresolved that you need to deal with. Not the end of the world by any means, and it's kinda interesting figuring yourself out while working with a therapist.

I think transference happens in daily life, we just dont call it that. If you have a coworker who really pisses you off and reminds you of a parent of yours, that's a kind of transference. (There is also the term "projecting" in this)

http://www.crisiscounseling.com/arti...ansference.htm

Book on countertransference: http://books.google.ca/books?id=ML8C...page&q&f=false

And some random links from PsychCentral which may be of interest:

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...nt-a-good-fit/
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/unplug...our-therapist/
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...-my-therapist/
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/unplug...-my-therapist/
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...our-therapist/
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/unplug...th-dependency/
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...of-therapists/
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/unplug...herapist-ever/
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/unplug...-on-the-couch/

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

Any books in particular that you think I might want to read?

Must you receive therapy within your agency or are you expected to receive therapy elsewhere? Who pays for it? But regardless of who pays for the therapist's therapy, what if the therapist is a psychologically stable person and doesn't have any issues that need to be resolved with the help of a therapist? Concerning the supervisor, what are his/her typical qualifications? And what exactly do you discuss with him? Do you share with him your thoughts about your patients' problems and ask for suggestions on how to deal with them/

I noticed upon rereading my post I didnt fully answer this part of Tibierius's questions..

Like already stated here mental health providers that I work with receive therapy outside of the work place because of conflict of interest.

who pays for it. we do just like everyone else we have our own insurance or pay out of pocket for it. Some companies are able to supply their employees with insurance plans offered as part of the job but others dont. where I am they dont.

what if the therapist is a psychologically stable person and doesn't have any issues that need to be resolved with the help of a therapist?

where I am its a requirement for therapists to have their own therapists.

besides theres always something to talk about with a therapist.. just like you therapists have bills, rent, morgage payments to make, families to raise, relationships that sometimes goes sour, we have our sad times, our stressful times, we are human we have occasional nightmares, some have problems from childhood...

today I talked with my therapist about my partners and my decision to start a family, medication changes, and buying a new refrigerator because the one in my home is on its last days.

do therapists including me, talk with their therapists about their clients?

sure they/I do. thats part of the reason why mental health providers here are required to have their own treatment providers.. so they have someone to talk with about the stress, frustrations, good times and bad times of the job, just like a teacher, (business person, waitress...)who is having work related problems talks with their therapist about their work day and the problems they are having.

if you had a job working construction and you were in therapy and had a problem with a co worker or a client you are working for..thats one of the things you can go to your therapist and talk about and work out with them.
therapists do the same thing.

after witnessing one of my clients being murdered I talked with my therapist about it.

thats what therapy is for..a place and person you can go to to work out your problems, stresses, frustrations and the like.

this is all a part of how therapists handle their own problems so that they are not bringing those problems into the sessions with their clients.

[soniyou]

Is transference always relevant for every client? People may be depressed etc without it being relevant to for instance unsolved relation to parents..

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by soniyou

Is transference always relevant for every client? People may be depressed etc without it being relevant to for instance unsolved relation to parents..

Transference has not been a big part of my therapy and I have made a lot of progress, so I don't think it need figure prominently. I think sometimes things come up in therapy and the therapist, depending on his orientation, may choose to interpret it in terms of transference or in another way. For example, I was having unreasonable trouble getting along with a financial advisor. Several times I reacted to his actions and words out of proportion to what he was saying. I could see this and it was frustrating, but I could not stop my feelings. Something was going on. My T probed a bit, trying to explore the transference angle--he asked if this guy reminded me of someone from my past, or the events made me feel the same way as particular events from my past (my answer was that I could not identify such a person or events). But his main focus was on ego states, as he does ego state therapy quite a bit. We explored whether the reactions to this man were coming from a different ego state, and if so, who that state was, what were his/her needs, etc. So I think it all depends on the therapist as to whether they will interpret what is going on for you as transference or something else--depending on the type of therapy they employ. I think it is very interesting how the type of therapy influences how a therapist works with a specific problem. What is transference to one therapist can be something very different to another. What is most important is the outcome of the therapist's efforts rather than the exact interpretation he makes, i.e. there are many ways to skin a cat.

[soniyou]

Sunrise:
Yes I agree that it's worthwile to discuss what may cause one to react out of order with the actual situation.

[gally]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

here the mental health community learn to deal with countertransference (therapists projecting their own problems into the client) through our training sessions ie role playing, lectures, films of actual sessions to critique. Alot of our training centers on the dangers of what our unresolved issues / hiding holding unresolved emotions about our clients ie love, hate, frustrations.. could do to our clients. just like children can pick up what their parents are feeling no matter how hard they try to hide it, our clients can also pick up on our hidden emotions. So this issue is a major part of our seminars, workshops, rolee playing trainings.

We are also required to have their own therapists and also required to meet with a supervisor.

Being in therapy our selves we therapists can resolve any of our personal and work related issues during our own therapy sessions. this way we dont bring them in to our sessions with the clients. meeting with the supervisors ensures the therapist has the clients best interests at heart and isnt reading into the sessions things that are not actually there.

one of our work rules where I am is that if any one of us has any attachments, or negative reactions to a client we must take ourselves off the case, refer the client to another therapist within or outside our agencies that can work with the clients issues objectively and with clarity without our emotions, for or against that client.

the clients best interests must always come first before our own.

we also give our clients a form to fill out where they get to evaluate us and our performance, interactions with them and whether there are things we should be working on that we havent gotten to, along with a suggestion question asking if they have any suggestions that they feel would better our interactions with them.

the best thing I can suggest is that when you are experiencing transference or counter transference in your sessions talk with your treatment providers. many times all that is needed to fix something like this is talking over the points where there may be some miscommunication leading each other (therapist and client) to read things with in each other that are not actually there during the conversations.

and by all means if you feel your therapist is projecting their own issues on to you speak up and let them know. The only way we therapists know when there is a problem is if our clients speak up. we are not magical, nor can we read our clients minds.

I am having some trouble with countertransference not directed toward a client but instead mine is directed toward another therapist - i feel aweful - i am not used to feeling this way - i get along well with everyone (well now I have to say almost everyone). the good news is that our contact is minimal - she has her clients in her group and I have my clients in my group - but it does not feel good and is not a healthy work environment - help me please

[Snakebit]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

I'm not sure if this is a good idea but I have thought about learning to deal with transference the same way that therapists learn to deal with countertransference. I just need to learn how they do it and the rest should be a matter of practice.

Can someone please recommend me a book that might help me find the information that I am looking for?

Oops, my comment didn't fit your question.

[elliemay]

My therapist says he uses his countertransference to move the therapy.

If he feels mad, then I am likely mad.
If he feels sad around me, then I am likely depressed.
If he feels frustrated, then he knows I'm likely to be as well.

In fact, a physician friend of mine (a hematologist no less!) says the best way to tell if a patient is depressed is if you feel depressed around them.

In essence, it seems the well trained therapist is able to use their own feelings to uncover and explore how the client is feeling.

But, yes, they have to be able to look outside themselves and rationally evaluate what is their "own" baggage, and what is actually in the room, coming from the client. It is a skill developed in their training.

That's why I think understanding how therapists deal with countertransference may fail to help with transference.

We're in therapy to sort out what is our own baggage versus what is actually going on and to develop the skills to know the difference.

Of course, that doesn't mean transference is useless in therapy, in fact, just the opposite. I think it can move the therapy as well, but it is not solely up to the client to "handle" it.

Letting your therapist know how you feel and exploring why you feel that way can be very important in developing an understanding of yourself and how you interact with others.

Just my two cents.