[ECHOES]

I used to get jealous and envious when reading about others' therapy and therapists. I wanted to be able to email T in the worst way. We talked about it many times.

But now for a while, I have trusted the process, as she suggeted early in therapy when it was so much harder. "Can you just be willing to trust the process?" she asked when I struggled to trust her, to get accustomed to therapy.

Now, I wouldn't trade her spoken words, warmth, smiles as well as looks of concern, for anything.

I'm glad for what works for others, and that's fine. I'm just really glad for what works for me, and I no longer feel like I'm missing out on something. I no longer feel she's denying me something because I am right there to receive all she gives.

Yeah, I had a good session yesterday, talking about missing/mourning the fantasy therapy and fantasy T, and about my awareness of that and of how I continue to search relentlessly for the perfect caretaker, the rescuer - in and out of therapy. It isn't a pleasant awareness, but there it is. And something to learn about and learn from. We talked about the emptiness, the bottomless pit, and that the searching is a response to feeling that and that it's from the emptiness of growing up without the nurturing that I wanted. And how I used to isolate myself even then, and tell myself to just get used to it - that some people get good families and some people don't and you can't make them what they aren't. Only now, it just causes me to isolate and the emptiness feeling is still there and the hopelessness about doing something about it is still there. So that is one thing we're exploring. It was a good session and I'm still feeling the calm and the connectedness. All it took was my being able to say when I went in that I was noticing my quest for the perfect caretaker and rescuer and that I was disappointed in that awareness. She complimented me in being able to bring my awareness in to therapy.

I also told her about her pouncing on the first thing I said about something last session, that I wondered all week why I was so instantly angry at the very last minute of the last session. It was good to talk about that and she complimented me on remembering it, as I am not good at remembering.

Anyway, the real therapy seems to be back. Whew!

[SpiritRunner]

Glad for you, Echoes, that it feels like the real therapy is back, and that you have held on to the calm and connectedness. That is so nice when it's like that! Glad too that you are content with the way your therapy works and with the way your therapist is. That is an awesome place to be in and hopefully I can get there, too!
My T doesn't do text or email, either, and I am actually quite fine with that. I don't feel like I need that sort of contact; I just like knowing I can call her if I need to. I'm happy with her giving hugs at the end of session, too......what I wish is that the connection could feel more consistent. Who knows, if my perception that sometimes she is a little more distant than others is really her, or me that's pulling back, or just my perception of a coolness and guardedness from her that's not quite the way I perceive it to be, but just my reaction or misinterpretation of that moment and her manner in that moment. This is the confusing part for me....

[Sweetlove]

Echoes...so happy for you and your wonderful T.

I have to say, that I agree with your new decision. I used to be jealous also or envious of people always talking to their T's on the phone, texting or emailing. I thought that maybe my T didn't like me enough to offer that. But what I've realized is that he just isn't that type of T. He is HUGE believer of the process during therapy. He wants to talk more about what comes up as we are talking, in session. He said I can call him in a crisis...and I'm happy with that.

I know some types of therapy (CBT, DBT) involve more contact out of the session so that's fine. I've come to realize that I'm doing my own, personal kind of therapy and what we are doing now is working just fine..thank you for bringing this up

[granite1]

maybe i should read this over and over again

No email would be a deal breaker for me. If she ever stopped it, therapy would be over for me. I didn't start out emailing, but once I did send her one, SHE is the one who has encouraged me to continue.

I think it is great that some of you do not need that contact between sessions. I feel like something is wrong with me, that I do need it. But then again, we are all different. What works for one, may not work for another.

[PreacherHeckler]

I think it shows real progress in therapy when we can let go of our own need to control the process because it means we are developing more trust in our T's. I've been able to email my T for several years and it's helpful, but that didn't prevent me from being jealous about other things I wanted but couldn't have in therapy. I used to be jealous of people whose T's hugged them, played games with them, took walks with them, gave them lots of contact between sessions -- basically if it was something I wanted but couldn't have, I became jealous and angry because I felt deprived and I thought my T didn't know what was best for me because it felt terrible to be denied something I desperately wanted.
I think it's great that you've reached a place of contentment in therapy, Echoes. That's what eventually happened with me, too, and it really does feel good to be content with what I do get from my T and to know I can trust him to do what he thinks is best based on his knowledge and experience and the fact that he knows me better than anyone else does.
But don't be too surprised or disappointed if the feelings of jealousy return once in awhile as you continue to work through issues in therapy. I have found it's not unusual for that to happen when intense longings or trust issues get triggered by something I haven't yet resolved. The good news, though, is that it's much easier to recognize what's happening now and it doesn't create a huge rupture anymore -- just a little bump in the road.

[PTSDlovemycats]

It wouldn't work for me but, Good for you Echoes!!

[Suratji]

Since I've never had email contact, I can't be sure whether it would work for me or not. I think I'd be worried that I would overdo it and frustrate my T. It's probably best that there is this firm boundary or else I would embarrass myself more than I do already. My T encourages me to call if I need to. And I do call but with the request she not return my call (except on occassion). That way she can hear what's going on with me and I don't need to feel guilty about her needing to be my T when we're not in session. I prefer to talk to her face to face. I do find it helpful to vent or relay my appreciation on telephone at least once a week on her voicemail.

[ECHOES]

I should mention that my T does allow phone calls and even provides her cell. Phone calls are to be brief, call back must be requested, and she does not guarantee to be available by cell phone. I have called, mostly to leave messages, sometimes requesting a call back, but those times are rare anymore.

But in the beginning I really really really wanted to be able to email her and she just doesn't offer that.

[Liam Grey]

I just text and/or email for schedule changes... only other times I write my T for something different (if she's not emailing me first) is if I'm going through something really big and she ask me to email her for the outcome immediately- and it's happened maybe twice in two years.

She said to me that I could have call her other specific, tough moments if I felt like I needed to, but I never ever took the chance... mostly cause I would feel a little embarassed (and invadent, but it's really just me and my particular story!) in calling her, and secondary cause I feel better in use our "live" hour of therapy .

(((((((((((Echoes)))))))))))))

I LOVE that you trusted the process and came to the place you're at

I was thinking recently about how much certain boundaries of T's used to bother me, and how much easier it is to accept them now. There is something very safe-feeling about knowing what the boundaries are, knowing what to expect, and learning to accept things how they are.

[rainbow8]

ECHOES, I'm glad you feel good about your Ts boundaries and rules. That's great!! I'm glad you feel like you have your T back and that therapy is working. Feeling content with your T is so important!

My T and I had that problem with emails but I now accept that I can write as many as I want, but she will only respond once during the week, and it's going to be a brief message. I didn't like it at first, but it feels good that she cares enough to want to take care of herself and of me.

Echoes, thank you so much for sharing this. It feels so important that you were willing to trust and try and wait, and you've come to feel that what you have is right for you, and is enough. Thank you also for acknowledging that this has involved a good deal of loss as you have let go of what you wished for and come to be with what is.

I guess we'll never get every aspect of our needs met by our Ts. My T offers me a great deal of out-of-session contact, for example, but won't touch me at all- which felt very hard for a long time, and I still feel a bit confused when I read how many people on here's Ts hug them.

I like what tree said about feeling safe knowing where the boundaries are. Bumping up against a boundary isn't comfortable, but it proves to me that T is in charge of keeping us safe. And knowing that means that I can express all kinds of impossible wishes and needs- knowing that she will be steadfast and acknowledge the need but maintain the boundary. If I thought for a second she might say 'yes', I wouldn't be able to express any of it, because it would be my responsibility to keep us safe by keeping quiet.

[elliemay]

I'm really happy that your therapy has returned to you. I think it's a real accomplishment to rest your head against the therapy and simply trust the process.

I'm not an emailer and I'm definitely not a texter. I know my therapist has a cell phone, but I'm not sure he has a computer. At least he doesn't have one in his office.

My therapist is simply, utterly dreadful on the phone. He seems tongue-tied, hurried and, for some reason, his voice comes through really really loud - no matter what phone I use.

I still call when I am in a bad place, but it's usually to say "Look I'm in a bad place, sitting with some stuff and I just wanted you to know." Just letting him know is enough.

It's almost as though trusting in the process is trusting in myself to handle my own recovery.

[eskielover]

Very interesting.......got me thinking about my situation over the last.....oh so many years now.......

When in California, my psychologist hugged after our session. He allowed me to call whenever I needed.....& there were many times when I needed over the years for many reasons....some very serious reasons when I needed to be in the hospital.

However.....in therapy, he sat there & listened to me talk....& the amount of time I ever remember real feedback is slim to almost none.

Now......I finally found a wonderful psychologist. She provides the greatest amount of feedback (something I always wondered why it was missing before). It was almost very difficult at first to take the feedback without responding to how I thought about what she was suggesting.....sometimes it wasn't in an accepting of what she was saying rather than taking the suggestion & thinking about it. However with her, there is no phone calls between my every 2-3 weeks sessions & there are no hugs at the end of therapy.

The point.......I have the best psychologist in the world now & I am getting something that for me is even more valuable than the hugs & the calls.

Something really hit me in reading your first post Echoes:

missing/mourning the fantasy therapy and fantasy T, and about my awareness of that and of how I continue to search relentlessly for the perfect caretaker, the rescuer - in and out of therapy. It isn't a pleasant awareness, but there it is. And something to learn about and learn from. We talked about the emptiness, the bottomless pit, and that the searching is a response to feeling that and that it's from the emptiness of growing up without the nurturing that I wanted. And how I used to isolate myself even then, and tell myself to just get used to it - that some people get good families and some people don't and you can't make them what they aren't. Only now, it just causes me to isolate and the emptiness feeling is still there and the hopelessness about doing something about it is still there. So that is one thing we're exploring.

Interesting how so many search for that fantasy caretaker (not just therapist). It seems that most people didn't have that fantasy caretaker to nurtured them....& most people didn't have that fantasy good family that we all wanted & think we should have had. If there were so many good families that nurtured their children, there wouldn't be so many people in therapy searching to fill that emptiness.

Interesting how therapy has pointed out how important that the nurturing is.......for me, after I quested after my career rather than being that nurturing mother for my own child. It's also interesting because when we look for that nurturing, we look at it usually as our mother NOT being there for us to give us that love & caring that we see the families of the long past used to give to their families. The farther we move away from that type of family.....the family where the mother was there to make sure that family had their breakfast & got out the door safely in the morning with a hug & a kiss & was there for the kids when they came home from school & provided the dinner on the table by 6pm when Dad got home from work. We look at those families & the parents mostly also provided their family with their religious moral values to feel safe with, knowing that if they followed those values trouble wouldn't be following them around every corner they turned.

But we also don't want that kind of family any more either. I know for me, my drive for having a career was deeper than my drive to be there to nurture a family. We were there to care for our daughter most of the time & when we weren't, my parents were......but so was the pre-school & all the activities we could throw our daughter into as a child....under the guise of making sure that she had all the opportunities that we didn't......& how many of us tell our children, they can grow up & figure out what they want to believe when they get older without giving them any foundation because we don't want to corrupt their minds with out thoughts like our parents did with us?

And yet we crave the nurturing of the past families that we feel we have missed out on because we didn't have that illusive nurturing family that we should have had. Unless the family structure changes in the future......how many nurturing families will there be in the future?

Not saying that it's not possible to have our own lives as parents & still be nurturing, but the more demands that there are on us outside of the home, the more our mind is pulled away from the home & focusing on those things that place the most demands on us. Our employer places immediate demands on us or we get fired in worse case, or don't get the raise or the promotion because we aren't serious about our career. Our children don't place those demands on us until they are in therapy, searching for that illusive nurturing family that we thought we were being while struggling to have our own lives outside of the family.

These are just some thoughts that went through my mind while reading this.....it doesn't mean that every family that doesn't have the stay at home mom isn't a nurturing family& it doesn't mean that every family with a stay at home mother was actually a nurturing family either, but we look at the statistics of the families & the number of divorces because the family of the abuse that exists within the family & they can't possibly stay together & shouldn't stay together just for the kids either But this just points out even more problems with the values we have in how we treat each other & the lack of responsibility we take on at being that good husband (or wife) that wouldn't cause the need for the divorce in the first place. One can be a nurturing single mother/father, it's not impossible, but the more outside pressures we feel on ourselves, the harder it becomes.

We can see by the statistics that the more our society has changed, the more of us are searching for that illusive caretaker that wasn't there for us when we needed them & we continue the search to find the illusive caretaker that will take care of everything in our life, give us the security we never experienced & fix the things that are wrong.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that there ever really was that perfect caretaker because there is no one that perfect in the first place even though there are some that are better at it than others. Even though I had parents who wanted to be those nurturing parents, they failed in their own way to provide what I needed......As humans we are always looking for what we don't have & many times not satisfied with what we do have.....just seems to be something about human nature.

Do we just have to be just satisfied with what we do have???? We don't have to be satisfied with it but we are stuck with what we do have & have to learn how to get beyond it & on with our life in spite of the hand we were dealt. We have to focus on what we can change & that isn't the past, but the future & what we need to change in our lives so that the future children don't find less & less nurturing in their lives as our society's statistics get worse & worse in terms of the family & the amount of abuse that is out there & the temptations that are out there in society, pulling our children into lower & lower moral values & more into self absorption, doing whatever feels good.

Where exactly did it start? Where exactly will it ever end????

[ECHOES]

ellimay, thanks and your post made me laugh because my T says good things in a phone message, but sometimes it's as if it is her first time using the phone. She sounds more formal, yet off-guard somehow, even though it is her decision if and when to call so you'd think she'd be totally prepared. I get it when I stammer in my call, but I'm surprised at the "umm" and "yes" as if those are being said to herself about how her call is going.
It's actually kind of funny, after the fact. Like a few weeks ago she called at my request about a family member I was in crisis about. I knew she couldn't tell me what to do, and I stated that in my call (one of them) but still asked if she could call back. She called and left a message on my cell while I was at work (no privacy at work, so I ask that she not call there because I can't talk). Her message was long, and yes she couldn't tell me what to do, and my relative might be okay with the limitations I have about relationships, etc. and then abuptly as if she was aware of how long she had talked (she is the one who walked in one day after a holiday break and announced as she was sitting down "Phone calls will be brief"... when I play that back in my head there is an Austrian accent... "Phone calls VILL be brief!".. anyway..)... so suddenly in this call she simply states "Yeah. Well good luck with it. Bye." I put punctuation in there, but I didn't hear any. lol. It was like a timer went off. goodluckwithitbye.

Originally Posted by Improving

Bumping up against a boundary isn't comfortable, but it proves to me that T is in charge of keeping us safe. And knowing that means that I can express all kinds of impossible wishes and needs- knowing that she will be steadfast and acknowledge the need but maintain the boundary. If I thought for a second she might say 'yes', I wouldn't be able to express any of it, because it would be my responsibility to keep us safe by keeping quiet.

Yes!!!!!! THIS.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by treehouse

Yes!!!!!! THIS.

If I thought for one second that my therapist had any desire, or was even capable of allowing a breach, I would be out of there.

I've definitely come to learn, and appreciate in my soul, that the boundaries contain and keep safe my therapy.

It's not going to get sloppy in there.

[Perna]

Yes, I find it so wonderful over time to discuss how things use to be (when it was hard) at the beginning of therapy and seeing how the hard things (my T wouldn't read or let me read from books, etc. aloud to her, made me put things in my own words) were actually what helped the most.

It reminds me of any other "exercise"; you don't build muscles without putting in the time doing the weight bearing exercises.

[rainbow8]

I agree. I resist the boundaries but I accept them because my T saying "I like you very much and that won't change no matter what you write" is much more worth it than emails back to me. I am safe to say or write anything at all. Wow!

[with or without you]

My T doesn't e-mail or text, and I've never asked. Lots of misunderstandings can happen with the written word.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by eskielover

It's also interesting because when we look for that nurturing, we look at it usually as our mother NOT being there for us to give us that love & caring that we see the families of the long past used to give to their families. The farther we move away from that type of family.....the family where the mother was there to make sure that family had their breakfast & got out the door safely in the morning with a hug & a kiss & was there for the kids when they came home from school & provided the dinner on the table by 6pm when Dad got home from work. We look at those families & the parents mostly also provided their family with their religious moral values to feel safe with, knowing that if they followed those values trouble wouldn't be following them around every corner they turned.

Reading your post made me sad, eskielover, because superficially, that is the description of how my family was. Mom at home, made all the meals on time, made a lunch for school each day, there waiting after school, made us go to church and taught us the religious dogma she knew, etc. I had all those things that you said, but yet it was the most unnurturing family ever. Never a word of love or a show of affection or kindness. Lots of yelling and dysfunction and hitting and beating and just plain cruelty. (And a dogmatic religion was zero consolation or help.) I just don't see that nurturing and those superficial qualities go together at all. I have worked outside of the home off and on as my children grew up, I haven't made their lunch each day, and my husband and I shared cooking duties and diaper changes. But I was very nurturing, far more than my parents. (That was a big goal of mine with my children since I never experienced it myself and know that inside, I missed it.) My children have no doubt that I love them because I tell them that all the time! They have had a mom who hugged them, complimented them, supported them, and was generous of heart. It's been a topic of mine in therapy--looking for clues in my past that my parents may have loved me. I cling to the flimsiest of evidence. I'm not obsessed with the hunt, but it surfaces from time to time. It's pathetic really--this stupid search for "proof". My T is great about it, and answers my strange questions--I ask him how a person would know if another person loved them. What would be the expression on a person's face, a gesture, actions, etc. I have asked him if his parents loved him, and if so (they did, he said), how he knew that. It's like I'm asking him questions about the strange customs of a foreign land. Now that I am older, and my relationships with my parents are improving, with T's help, I am finding little signs that they may love me TODAY. And maybe that means they loved me back then too. (Another clue to the past.)

Originally Posted by ECHOES

I continue to search relentlessly for the perfect caretaker, the rescuer - in and out of therapy

Your search is different than mine, ECHOES, but I know how those relentless searches hurt. (Perhaps oddly, I have never searched for the perfect caretaker. For some reason, I guess I was a realist and accepted that my parents were not nurturing and didn't look further.) Your T sounds like a lovely, caring, and compassionate woman. It can be nice to know that a person is not the perfect caretaker but can be "just right", in their own way. It sounds like your T is not perfect, but she is wonderful, and just right for you at this time in your life. And you have come to give her space to be her own way, instead of seeing her as a shadow parent, which I think is a sign of a healthy and mature person.

Note to eskielover: I think there is more divorce today partly because people place greater emphasis on personal happiness for themselves. Perhaps that means people are more selfish today? Is there a sense of entitlement now, that one deserves to be happy in life? I do wish I had divorced earlier in life instead of clinging to the idea that one should stay no matter what, that it was better for the children, etc. (My children have commented many times how much better things are since the divorce.) "One can be a nurturing single mother/father, it's not impossible, but the more outside pressures we feel on ourselves, the harder it becomes." Contrary to what you wrote, I find it even easier to be nurturing now that I am divorced, because there are fewer internal family pressures. With all that gone, I have even more of myself to give.

[ECHOES]

Sunny, I didn't mean that I am actively searching for or that it is my goal to find the perfect caretaker and rescuer, but that I notice that there is still that element in my interactions and relationships with others.
Sorry if I misstated that.