I've been working with my therapist for around 3 years now and I cannot look at him. Well I have issues with eye contact in general. I don't even look children in the eyes. It's not that I'm disrespectful. I'm terrified and I hate when people say that it's a sign of disrespect.

After 3 years shouldn't I be able to at least lift my eyes off the ground? I feel like it's a lack of trust in him in general. I still make him walk in front of me if we're going through a narrow stairwell or something. I still won't let him hold a door for me, because it requires me walking in front of him or getting too physically close to him. I really want to learn to trust him, but I'm so confused. I mean he knows a lot about me, but in general I don't trust him. I thought I did, but I think it was "surface trust". There are many ways in which I do not trust him. My actions prove it. I don't trust men in general, but it's not like I trust women either, but maybe a little bit easier.

I mean I have to eventually learn to trust him or how will I ever trust a husband in the future? I can't do those things with other men, and every man I asked to wait has left. I take too much time feeling my zones. I mean 3 years for a therapist is a really long time. I still at times force him to do therapy in the big group room so I don't have to be so physically close to him.

And my therapist does a lot with me, besides individual therapy. We go out to lunch, go shopping, hiking. I mean he's watched me help a feral cat with her newborn kittens and went with me to put one of ferals down when he was sick and I still cannot trust him. That seems like ample time to do so.

I am so afraid that he will hurt me not just emotionally, but physically. I even become paranoid in a sense that he will harm me. I think because he's the first "man" I've been close to. In a way it's good that we do stuff outside of therapy, but in another way it lets me see a side to him that may not always be therapeutic. Because he starts acting like a "person". Which I don't really blame him, because it would be really hard to be in therapist mode all the time, especially when you're bowling or something. It lets me know that "therapists are just people too". But then I need that opportunity to learn to trust someone COMPLETELY safe, before I trust someone who is not. Someone who has flaws. Therapists come across in therapy as understanding, open eared, open minded, but in reality they are just people also. I never really had a chance to be "transferent" on my therapist, because I know that he's human. I'd rather for all sake learn to trust a human robot first. Too bad he didn't come second he would have been a great lead into trusting men. Somewhat safe, somewhat not.

Who knows. Can anyone relate with the feeling of knowing too much about your therapist. Did it ruin the therapeutic relationship?

Would it be of interest for me to share this with him? Do you think it's repairable or should I go search out another therapist, preferably male?

Although I don't really want to have a male. When I first started with him, I really had no choice. I didn't choose him, that's for sure. It was a county appointed thing. I always had females before him. But it turned out okay. I have come a bit of a ways. When I first went to see him I made a female sit in with us and I didn't even talk directly to him. I cried bloody murder about not wanting to see a man. Refused to talk for months. Till I jimmied my way away from him. Then I was put back with him 9 months later and have been there since.

[ECHOES]

I'm curious how you can go off with him on non-therapy outings if you are afraid of him.
It sounds like a confusing relationship to me. I wonder if the itimacy in the real therapy setting is confusing and feels like too much because of extra-therapy contact.
Maybe if the relationship becomes one that is limited to the therapy session, it might feel safer and more secure. It might be worth a try to see.
Yes, mention it. It's important.

Good question Echoes. I should specify more.

To me there is "two" hims. I trust him as a person, for the most part. I trust him like I learned to trust my guy friends. They talk to me, they generally know though not to get too close to me physically or emotionally.

I trust the person he is outside of therapy. For simple things, like I trust that when we are outside of therapy that he will physically harm me. He can help me figure out things as a caseworker. He is more "distant" then "therapist him".

But when I am in therapy with him I do not trust "therapist him". I don't even trust that he will not harm me physically. Because therapy is very "intimate". (I use that in a non sexual way). And I don't like to be vulnerable to any intimacy in conversations with men. Feeling vulnerably emotionally makes me feel vulnerably physically and it sometimes flows over into "person him" when we interact that way.

In general I do not want to feel deeply connected to a man and outside of therapy I don't have to do that. In therapy I do. He becomes a whole other person to me. It is confusing and it switches around a lot. Some parts of me trust, others do not depending on the situation. Sometimes I can separate the two and other times I mesh them together. Sometimes things in my head say "remember that time you were bowling and he got snippy with the clerk because his shoes were ripped and they wouldn't switch them, that's the therapist you're talking to right now. Remember when he cursed at your doctor for not allowing you to see a specialist? And that time he made the comment about pittbulls being bad. You love Pittbulls. A precious dog. That's who you're talking to. That's who you want to share your deepest most inner thoughts? Think again."

I understand now why boundaries are so strict with therapists and their clients. He has been really careful too about being appropriate, but it doesn't matter, because nobody is perfect outside of a therapy room. He lets his guard down and I can find a reason not to trust "therapist him".

[ECHOES]

It isn't your fault at all that you struggle trying to have 2 very different relationships with this man. What he's done to the therapy relationship is overburdened you.

Your story is like a testament for why a dual relationship doesn't work.
You are getting therapy. To do that, you need a therapist who is just a therapist. I hope you will decide to find such a therapist to work with.

[elliemay]

I would have trouble in this situation with trust as well. I mean where in this relationship are the boundaries of therapy in which you can feel safe and contained?

I don't know. I think another therapist may be in order here too. Once that frame has been broken, it's hard to put it back together.

Not impossible, just hard.

[anilam]

I don't understand- How come you two are doing this stuff together? Is he also your friend?
I cant imagine going hiking with my T...
It seem to me like a serious breach of client-therapist relationship. I see why you suffer with his double role in you life.

[dizgirl2011]

Hey,

this does seem like a very odd relationship that you have with him and in many ways I think perhaps he has done the wrong thing in crossing the boundary from therapist to friend. You highlighted one of the very reasons this is not supposed to happen - because your seeing two different people in him, which causes uncertainty and incongruency. This can cause you to doubt who he is in therapy and this is damaging.

I wonder if he thought it would help you trust him but at the same time it's very strange that he does all these things with you outside of Therapy. Is he a therapist or a case worker?

When things have happened to us in life, it can mean that we find trusting others extremely hard. What I think your Therapist should have really done was to gain your Trust as a therapist first and foremost, as this is meant to be his most important role in your life from him.

I know others on the forum have talked about doing very friend-like things with their therapists and although it is always crossing a boundary where the ethics of therapy is concerned, most of these individuals have a very trusting and long standing relationship with their T first and foremost.

I am not sure if he is the right therapist for you and also if it's good you have a male therapist so you can work through these issues or if your better off with a female you can trust first?

I am hesitant to give advice as I would hate to give it wrongly. If you can talk to him then that would be a good idea.

I know people progress at different rates but it is concerning to me that after 3 years you cannot trust him as a therapist.

*huge huggggggsss!!**

[Can't Stop Crying]

I don't have a dual-relationship with my T, but I can't make eye contact with him either. It is not about trust for me, it is about shame. He knows my deepest, darkest secrets so I stare at the floor or bury my head in my hands. I can't imagine the confusion of having him switch roles on you....

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by ECHOES

It isn't your fault at all that you struggle trying to have 2 very different relationships with this man. What he's done to the therapy relationship is overburdened you.

Your story is like a testament for why a dual relationship doesn't work.
You are getting therapy. To do that, you need a therapist who is just a therapist. I hope you will decide to find such a therapist to work with.

Oh gosh, I have to make a correction to what I said. I'm sorry that I missed this because it makes a big difference. I meant to say:

"You aren't getting therapy. To do that, you need a therapist who is just a therapist. I hope you will decide to find such a therapist to work with."

Originally Posted by ECHOES

It isn't your fault at all that you struggle trying to have 2 very different relationships with this man. What he's done to the therapy relationship is overburdened you.

Your story is like a testament for why a dual relationship doesn't work.
You are getting therapy. To do that, you need a therapist who is just a therapist. I hope you will decide to find such a therapist to work with.

Thank you echoes for the support. I am glad I discussed this on PC before writing a letter. It makes a lot more clear. Thank you for letting me know that this is not my fault. Like most therapy patients I tend to blame myself for everything.

Originally Posted by elliemay

I would have trouble in this situation with trust as well. I mean where in this relationship are the boundaries of therapy in which you can feel safe and contained?

I don't know. I think another therapist may be in order here too. Once that frame has been broken, it's hard to put it back together.

Not impossible, just hard.

Yea I definitely agree with this. For the longest time I just couldn't pinpoint why I couldn't trust him and sure it makes sense on the outside, but just like you said like a frame being broken it would take a lot of glue to fix it and even then it would look a mess. It's better just to throw the frame away or get a new piece of glass. It scares me though, because underneath it all I know that Ts are human. Every T I will ever have. In a way this relationship has bent up my frame a bit.

Originally Posted by anilam

I don't understand- How come you two are doing this stuff together? Is he also your friend?
I cant imagine going hiking with my T...
It seem to me like a serious breach of client-therapist relationship. I see why you suffer with his double role in you life.

Technically I don't think he's crossed any legal boundaries. Ethically, perhaps. Definitely. However he's a special kind of therapist. Part of an ACT team. ACT teams are met to reach people in the community. Usually they deal with severe mental illness like schizophrenia and therapy isn't as important as meds. But I have PTSD and my only treatment that would work was therapy. He's said to me numerous times that working with me is a relief, because he's a therapist and that's what he wants to do. Other staff in the office prefer working with people who do not need therapy (probably more so then do). Because they aren't as "breakable".

Over the years I've been with him this has led to him "being my main staff member". He does everything and has cut out other staff entirely. Threw my caseworker off my case and took over that part. Delivers my meds, does stuff in the community with me to help me adjust to life outside of being institutionalized. Recently I've told him before realizing why that "other staff have to be involved in my care and that it's unfair to me if they're not". I mean for awhile he was my therapist, my caseworker, my group therapist, my friend, my psych nurse. It was like I knew nothing but him. He has admitted to me that he feels the "need to take care of me". Which in general says "he had issues with wanting to control my treatment". He has since gotten better about this, but like Elliemay said it is hard to fix a broken frame.

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Hey,

this does seem like a very odd relationship that you have with him and in many ways I think perhaps he has done the wrong thing in crossing the boundary from therapist to friend. You highlighted one of the very reasons this is not supposed to happen - because your seeing two different people in him, which causes uncertainty and incongruency. This can cause you to doubt who he is in therapy and this is damaging.

I wonder if he thought it would help you trust him but at the same time it's very strange that he does all these things with you outside of Therapy. Is he a therapist or a case worker?

When things have happened to us in life, it can mean that we find trusting others extremely hard. What I think your Therapist should have really done was to gain your Trust as a therapist first and foremost, as this is meant to be his most important role in your life from him.

I know others on the forum have talked about doing very friend-like things with their therapists and although it is always crossing a boundary where the ethics of therapy is concerned, most of these individuals have a very trusting and long standing relationship with their T first and foremost.

I am not sure if he is the right therapist for you and also if it's good you have a male therapist so you can work through these issues or if your better off with a female you can trust first?

I am hesitant to give advice as I would hate to give it wrongly. If you can talk to him then that would be a good idea.

I know people progress at different rates but it is concerning to me that after 3 years you cannot trust him as a therapist. *huge huggggggsss!!**

Yes he is my caseworker AND therapist. Although he was my therapist first and then threw my caseworker off my case and took over that aspect too. I think you are right in saying that he thought doing all those things would make it easier to trust him. A bit of impatience or wishful thinking. He's relatively young and like I mentioned previously he deals a lot more with very severe cases that are not in need of intense therapy like I am. He prefers doing therapy and so I think he "clung" to me as an escape from working with something he didn't prefer. But like I also said, most of the staff in there who are most used to "meds and out" find me completely terrifying and would have rather him just handle it.

Originally Posted by Can't Stop Crying

I don't have a dual-relationship with my T, but I can't make eye contact with him either. It is not about trust for me, it is about shame. He knows my deepest, darkest secrets so I stare at the floor or bury my head in my hands. I can't imagine the confusion of having him switch roles on you....

Hmm interesting point. Maybe this is part of it too. But it's most like my "friend" knowing all my deepest secrets and lowest of lows and that is incredibly shameful in general.

[anilam]

Thanks for clarifieng.
Still I believe that he crossed that line with you. There is a reason why T, social worker and the other stuff you've mention are done by separate ppl. It just doesn't work. It seems strange though that the company he works in allow this to happened.
I would ask for a new T if I were you. Have PTSD (CSA) and have a male T too.
And him showing "special" interest in me? That would be it.

I wrote my therapist letter explaining to him that I cannot possibly separate therapist him from human him. I used the frame analogy. "Like a broken frame I'm not sure this can be fixed. We can try and glue it back together, but there will always be cracks in my image of you". I told him that no human is perfect and knowing "human him" allowed me to see the flaws that he carries as one. I also let him know, incase there was confusion that yes eventually I would have to accept the humanness in people. But if I hadn't done it yet, that it would take the boundaries of a therapist to help me. If I don't trust even my own brother, who is close to his age, who I've known since birth and who has never done anything to harm me and has always been supportive, why on earth would I trust a total stranger?

[Can't Stop Crying]

Good for you for writing the letter. I can't imagine how confusing this must all be....