[SoupDragon]

I swing between liking, hating, trusting, not trusting...not sure about the loving thing as I am still trying to work out what love is, but certainly obsessing from time to time.

Therapy is about a relationship isn't it? Isn't that how it works? So my rational head tells me whatever feeling we have is both relevant, valid and necessary - also if we share it with T, may really help us work some things out about ourselves.

So why do I feel ashamed?

[rainbow8]

I feel the same way, SoupDragon. I think everyone's answer may be a little different, but years ago, my first T told me that my feelings for her were basic. I remember after a year or so I finally got up the nerve to ask her something like "Do I want you to love me? Do I love you?" It was torture to get those words out; it probably took me an entire session because I had no idea what therapy was all about.

I was ashamed at the time because the basic need for love got sexualized and mixed up with adult needs. We're adults now, so that basic need, which is love for a parent, is shameful to us. We turn it into a more adult kind of love, which can produce more feelings of shame.

Love for a T also has the component of transference. We feel for the T what we want to feel or have felt for other important persons in our life. We feel the feelings more strongly, too. When we're angry at T, we're really bitterly angry! When we love our T, we totally love her or him! There doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

This is my experience but it may be different for you. The shame comes also from thinking that I'm not allowed to have these strong feelings for my T. They aren't normal is the way my mind goes. But they are normal, for therapy and for "real life" too. The shame also comes from knowing that my T is noticing my strong feelings for her. Does she think I'm weird? She doesn't, but still, those thoughts produce shame.

I hope some of this helps you. Hopefully others will shed some more light on it. What helps me is to tell my T that I feel ashamed of my feelings for her. But I have to because that's my "pattern" and what I'm working on in therapy.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I was ashamed at the time because the basic need for love got sexualized and mixed up with adult needs. We're adults now, so that basic need, which is love for a parent, is shameful to us. We turn it into a more adult kind of love, which can produce more feelings of shame.

Love for a T also has the component of transference. We feel for the T what we want to feel or have felt for other important persons in our life. We feel the feelings more strongly, too. When we're angry at T, we're really bitterly angry! When we love our T, we totally love her or him! There doesn't seem to be a middle ground.

This is my experience but it may be different for you. The shame comes also from thinking that I'm not allowed to have these strong feelings for my T. They aren't normal is the way my mind goes. But they are normal, for therapy and for "real life" too. The shame also comes from knowing that my T is noticing my strong feelings for her. Does she think I'm weird? She doesn't, but still, those thoughts produce shame.

I hope some of this helps you. Hopefully others will shed some more light on it. What helps me is to tell my T that I feel ashamed of my feelings for her. But I have to because that's my "pattern" and what I'm working on in therapy.

This is a brillliant explanation - thank-u it answers many things for me - I suppose that all T's know this happens - besides assuming that they have gone through therapy themselves, they probably know exactly what is going on behind the facade we may display and at what point we may reveal it - like I know what you know, but you may not know that I know what you know and I know you can't say what it is that we both know.

So maybe it is lost child feelings coming out as an adult that are all mixed up - I guess early sexualisation can also confuse things.

Thanks again rainbow8 - SD

[Hope-Full]

I read somewhere, a few articles actually, that the most important predictor to the success of therapy is the therapeutic relationship - that is, the relationship between client and therapist. Yes, it is a one sided relationship, but it is still a relationship. In other words, the single most important factor in therapy is whether or not the client and therapist connect.

I'll see if I can dig up the articles, I know I saved them somewhere.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by Hope-Full

I read somewhere, a few articles actually, that the most important predictor to the success of therapy is the therapeutic relationship - that is, the relationship between client and therapist. Yes, it is a one sided relationship, but it is still a relationship. In other words, the single most important factor in therapy is whether or not the client and therapist connect.

I'll see if I can dig up the articles, I know I saved them somewhere.

Thanks so much that would be great. Particualry interested in the connection - I am not sure if I have posted before, (sorry I lose track / poor memory), but although I know my T's name, I feel my T as more of a presence in the room than a person - don't get me wrong I know T has a body and is a person, but I can't quite connect the two - I say T's name in my head, but it is meaningless to me - even I find this weird. I think I am quite scared of that connection, probably linked to the feeling thing, like what does it feel / mean to connect. Thanks again. SD

[swimmergirl]

Hi Soupdragon.............

Rainbow gave a very good explanation..........I will just add a little to that.First to reiterate............that are many layers to the feelings, all of which are good and normal. There are the real feelings you have for the person you know as your T..........very strong, intense, illogical at times. Then there are the transference feelings for the person you wish your T was...........or the relationship that was lacking in childhood or wherever. Both are legitimate and real and it is hard to separate them at times. I think the shame comes from many places. First..........the intensity of the feelings, constant thoughts about therapy and your T, etc. is so illogical to us. You think..........where in the world did that come from? Why do I feel so strongly about my T that I have only known for x amount of time as compared to another person in real life, a spouse or friend or family member, that I have known my whole life? For me..........that was what freaked me out. The intensity, the deepness of these feelings for my T that I had only known for a short period of time made absolutely no sense to me. Another reason for the shame...........society teaches us that to some degree we should be able to control our feelings. And for most of us, these feelings are NOT A CHOICE. What we do about them is a choice.............how we behave around our Ts, etc. But who in the wide world of pete would choose these feelings? There is so so much good but also horrific pain at times associated with them. So there is shame in "not being able to control them". One of the best things my current T has said.............Why do your feelings have to make sense? Also, please don't ever apologize for your feelings. I dont think he has any idea how much those two statements have changed my perspective. He means the world to me. Third, unless you have EXPERIENCED these feelings for yourself you really don't get it. Period. End of statement. And so it is hard to explain this to someone. And everyone's experience is different, even people in therapy. So you feel isolated, alone, like you are the only one going through this. Thank goodness for PC where I found this community of people who helped to convince me I wasn't losing my mind. I asked my current T if he ever felt this way when he was the client? And he hasn't. And I know he understands it booksmart sort of way. And I know he totally gets me. But in a way, he doesn't get me like others here who have been thru it because he has not experienced it. Last, the other part of the shame for me comes as I am a religious person and married and even though these feelings are for my dad(transference) because I am an adult they manifest themselves romantically towards my T. And so there is guilt and shame in that. My T does know of my feelings as does my husband and thank goodness for their support. It is so so hard but I have quit trying to fight it(at least most of the time) and just accept that it is what it is and work through it. Hope this helps you.

[SoupDragon]

Hi Swimmergirl - thanks, yes this is very helpful. I liked what your T said about feelings not having to make sense and not feeling the need to apologise for them. In my fantasy world, I would love to move into T's house - not for romantic reasons but just so I could always be near T - maybe it is something about safety. I know this is fantasy, because in reality if I saw T anywhere else than in that room, I would die!

I have read so many books over the last year - this thirst for knowledge, I need to have an absolute understanding of what goes on in T - but maybe this is related to trust for me - maybe it will burn itself out and I will realise as your T said that not everything has to make sense, sometimes things just are...

How I wish I could get to the point when I could look T in the eye and share my feelings without feeling embarrassed and shamed.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

How I wish I could get to the point when I could look T in the eye and share my feelings without feeling embarrassed and shamed.

SD, sometimes that sharing has to happen first and then when we see their reaction the embarrassement and shame goes away...But for me, I never directly talked to T. about it...I just decided to accept those feelings as feelings and you know what ....the embarrassment and shame lessened and eventually the feelings were not so intense and I am able to know T. cares for me and I for him and I can look him in the eye and feel it and know he knows I feel it. Of course that took me 6 months...

I know you will find your way through this too..

[Sannah]

Hi SoupDragon, I get the feeling that you don't feel good about your identity/yourself? This is where shame and embarrassment come from. In order to connect with someone you need to feel good about who you are. I think that this is why you can't see T completely because this would require you standing across from her in full view?

[SoupDragon]

Readytostop - thanks - yes this is a good reminder for me that sometimes feelings are just feelings, maybe just to be noticed and not judged. Thank-you also for your faith in me

Sannah - well right on the dragon's nose with this one! Wow - yes that hit home (in a useful way) - I definitely don't have a good self view and maybe when I look closely I actually don't feel worthy of taking up T's time - so hide myself. Thank-you for your insight. SD