[emptyspace]

should the intellectual reality overcome the emotional need?

what i mean is this...

when i was a teen, it seemed acceptable to me to want my T to be my mother and hence act in ways accordingly. i was a kid, my T was old. in some reality, she could have adopted me....

now in my young 20s, it seems UNacceptable to me to have the same "need" because i can better intellectually understand the reality of the situation.. for example, i intellectually know that T can not become my mother, is not my mother, i am too old to be adopted, and T is a paid professional...

..thus when i start to engage T in a way that a child would, i feel horrible.

yes, it's alot about transference, and some say you need to work through it to heal...but doesnt the intellect have an important role in this?

EmptySpace,

I know I have relied on my thinking or intellect my whole life and it hasn't gotten me anywhere when it comes to my emotional health. IMHO, you have to feel the feelings in order to heal them and in my case, the only thing thinking and intellect has done is get in the way of that.

[vaffla]

I'm in my forties and I still want T to be my mom. Obviously she can't and no one can, she is only 12 years older than me, etc. But it doesn't change anything about my NEED. I still need that experience of intense connection with someone who's attuned to me.
Am I embarrassed about it? I guess that depends on the reaction I get. Former T used to discourage that and therefore I tried to hide it. My current T makes me feel like it's nothing to be ashamed of, and she is responsive to my need and so I am not as embarrassed about it .

[WePow]

We call our T by a special daddy name just for him. There are parts of me that have a NEED for this at this time. I am 41. I think that as long as you stay honest with your T about these things, that is what is most important.

[ECHOES]

Sure, sometimes.... but intellectually, I understand that therapy is the place for such things

I think it is the intellect that comes along and tries to shame us, while at the same time also recognizes that there is/was something 'missing'.

[nannypat]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

EmptySpace,

I know I have relied on my thinking or intellect my whole life and it hasn't gotten me anywhere when it comes to my emotional health. IMHO, you have to feel the feelings in order to heal them and in my case, the only thing thinking and intellect has done is get in the way of that.

I have to agree. I have thought, reasoned out, intellectualized, explained away everything that happened to me, or didn't happen to me growing up and could explain it all. When all of a sudden something tragic happened and I suddenly felt feelings, I fell apart. So started my journey in my mid thirties to learn about feelings and realize I disconnected from life and mentally unhealthy.

Yes, I have been embarrassed by my crying like a little child because I was never hugged by and kissed by my mom and dad, I never did anything right etc.etc. but My T told me it was necessary to cry now because I couldn't cry then. There have been lots of things, but I trust my T. I no longer feel embarrassed in front of him.

[Hope-Full]

Intellect and rationalization just don't fit into therapy. No matter how badly I want them to. I can rationalize my way into or out of any thinking situation, but it still doesn't stop the feeling of needing my T from overwhelming me. I need my T to re-parent me, to nurture the little me that never got her needs met from infancy.

I feel ridiculous sometimes, more by what I actually admit to my T than by how I behave (though that is open for debate) because intellectually, as a 30 something adult, I shouldn't want the things that I want. Developmentally though, these are basic *needs* that went unmet, and now T is helping me find ways to meet them safely and appropriately. I still struggle to accept the fact that sometimes I need things a 6 year old gets, or a 12 year old gets, or a sullen teen gets, but that's where I am, and each time T and I work on this, it gets a little easier to accept.

Oddly, I find it fascinating that during the day I can function as a "typical" 30-something person in society, but the hour before T, and while with my T, I let down my guard and can truly be wherever I am on the developmental spectrum with no shame anymore. And usually, within an hour after T, I'm back in the "typical" world again.

[nicoleb2]

I am 31. My T is close to my own age. She sees me at my worst, when I am sobbing, and other times, when I refuse to sob, refuse to accept my emotions, when I dig my heels in like a child and refuse to talk. She sees me in ways that my mom no longer can (mom died 3 years ago).
Sometimes, I need to escape reality and do as a child would, totally rely on someone else. That someone is my T.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by emptyspace

now in my young 20s, it seems UNacceptable to me to have the same "need" because i can better intellectually understand the reality of the situation.. for example, i intellectually know that T can not become my mother, is not my mother, i am too old to be adopted, and T is a paid professional...

Adults need parental figures too!

I'm in my late forties and I'm not ashamed to think of T as my mother.

If I feel like wishing T was my mother then I allow myself that. We cannot control our emotions, there's a reason for these thoughts and feelings, use them, get interested in them, learn about yourself.

Originally Posted by emptyspace

but doesnt the intellect have an important role in this?

I think that for me, I tried to THINK my way out of my feelings, and my memories, and my issues for years and years and years.

It wasn't until I really let myself just honestly have whatever feelings I have, no matter how childlike or immature or "unreasonable" that I started to heal.

The beauty of therapy is that we CAN go and have our feelings and our needs, and we don't have to intellectualize everything.

[noneedtoknow]

I might be way off base here, but yes, I believe that intellect does have a part in it. It helps me to process, to understand, to plan. There is definetly a place for it in therapy. And I do not want to get to0 dependent on a therapist. There is transference, yes, and sometimes that is a part, but I do have to move on. I do not, can't and won't stay in that child state for too long. It will breed more dependence. Yes, it '"is part of a therapist job to help me move through it" but it is my job also, because I am an adult and it is not a passive thing. Now this can change with time, more experience, etc, but for now, I need to deal, heal then move on.

[Joanna_says]

Originally Posted by emptyspace

but doesnt the intellect have an important role in this?

For me at least the problem is that my mind is working as an grown-up mind and understanding things like a grown up on a rational level but unfortunately the rest of me often reacts and feels like that little child who does not know much yet other than fear and pain and bad things. And it does not help much when my mind is stepping in telling the rest of me what my rational parts see.

For example some months back I was on my way home late in the evening. I passed by 2 men who appeared to be somewhat drunk. When I was just passing by they said something to me. I tried to ignore them and walked by nt looking at them. But then they turned and walked the same direction after me.
I got all panicky and was so relieved when I made it into my appartment. But even inside I was too afraid of turning on the light for a while.
At some moment my mind stepped in and said that those men did not want anything from me. They just happened to walk the same way and the danger I had felt was not there at all.
Although logically I had understood that I still could not manage to be sleep in the dark for about a month and still have sleeping trouble since then. And telling myself that this was nothings does not help with my sleeping problem at all.
It is just 2 seperate things dealing with the same situation in a different way. And I just try to accept that the way it is and work on making my beddroom a safe place and being able to sleep better again.

[Perna]

We need other people throughout our lifecycle, it's hard-wired into our brains. Any meaning, positive or negative to one's interactions with another is wholly "made up" by the person giving the meaning. The fantasy of a really nice, thoughtful, listening, loving, wholly at our service person being our mother is not anything to be ashamed of; yes we learn to take over some of those roles for ourselves but the operative word is "learn". When does a baby get embarrassed because they can't walk yet or aren't toilet trained? Being in one's early twenties and out in the world by one's self for the first time is very very scary! Wanting support, comfort, "mothering" is even more natural then, I'd think, than in one's teens where one is trying to grow away from the actual mothering one has had?

[unaluna]

It's my childish behavior IRL that embarrasses me and sends me to therapy, where I can get the real story behind the music, as they say, and nip it in the butt.

Originally Posted by Perna

Being in one's early twenties and out in the world by one's self for the first time is very very scary! Wanting support, comfort, "mothering" is even more natural then, I'd think, than in one's teens where one is trying to grow away from the actual mothering one has had?

Yes, indeed. I mentor young professionals of this age and I have felt this is true not only at a professional level, but a personal level. I have become much more comfortable at "mothering" them when they have needed it, even for so-called non-professional things, because beginning a career, especially a very stressful career that involves helping other people, is a lot like taking your first steps. I have also amped up the opportunities to give them positive support, because sometimes even something as simple as "good work today" nurtures them in ways that I don't anticipate.

Anne

I echo what everyone else is saying. I'm 36 and on Friday I was crying in session because my therapist has been so amazing and giving to me over this last really difficult week and I said aloud through my tears "I don't want you ever to leave me." It happened again... I've been seeing her for 14 months and she falls into a long line of people I've wanted to be my mother. I understand this intellectually better than I did in my teens and 20s, but the deep desire will likely never go away. It's what you do with these feelings and yearnings that can change. I used to imagine in my mind what this would be like (pretend that I lived with the person, that she took care of me, etc.) Now, I focus on what can be given during our sessions and in our emails or occasional phone calls. I've become less ashamed of these feelings (most of the time, though certainly not all...) and the therapist makes a big difference in this.

In September when I was having a difficult weekend, my therapist wrote me an email in which she self-disclosed that she had people who stepped in to fill that role in her life (her PhD adviser, some of her friends) at moments in her life, but noting that she, like I, never will get the mother she/I wants. Then she wrote that she was sending me a motherly hug. She gets it... this was so important for me to know, particularly because I respect how strong she is. I can work toward/get to this place.

It's so, so hard, but accepting and being compassionate toward your feelings is important. It's helped me A LOT to know from reading PC that I'm not alone in this, that so many people want a mother too. This helps to "normalize" my feelings.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

It's so, so hard, but accepting and being compassionate toward your feelings is important. It's helped me A LOT to know from reading PC that I'm not alone in this, that so many people want a mother too. This helps to "normalize" my feelings.

I get such a feeling of revulsion everytime I read about people wanting a mother - I feel like the guy in A Clockwork Orange. It WOULD require me being compassionate towards my feelings to even begin to change that; although I realize that is not what you said, I find it useful. But I doubt my feelings in this regard will ever normalize. I want to yell, "YOU BIG BABIES!" - but as the words come out, I hear the echoes from my past.

I am embarrassed and repulsed by my behavior, thoughts and feelings. Basically everything about me embarrasses me and repulses me.

[skysblue]

Isn't 'mother' very symbolic? Mothering is a nurturing action. Mothering fulfills our human needs. Mothering is offering acceptance and guidance.

So, although I don't have a conscious desire to make my T my mother, I suspect that the kind of nurturing I didn't receive as a child is being provided by my T. She has even commented on emotional developmental delays.

A kind of re-mothering or re-parenting can happen in therapy. There's a chance to truly become a mature adult - and an adult who does still have emotions but is able to process and regulate them well.

It is funny though that even with no conscious thinking of my T being 'mother' (and she's younger than me), when she was gone the last time on vacation, I called my 'substitute' T my babysitter. And I said, "the babysitter will never replace mommy."

[unaluna]

One of our therapy dolls, the Max doll, needed a bath, or rather, his white onesie did. So I took him home one weekend. I knew my male T wasn't up to the task, much as he CLAIMS he wants to be a good mom. Why he even aspires to that, I have no idea! But me - I got that onesie back to WHITE! And I bagged the attached black furry tail so it didn't get wet or shed. Because a mom washes clothes. That's about the extent of my definition. I guess that's all I ever saw my mom do, and all I ever helped her with. Every Monday. What "nurture"?! Gimme a hand with this laundry! Thanks, sky & all - that actually gave me some insight into my situation!

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by hankster

O Because a mom washes clothes. That's about the extent of my definition.

Well, in my house each person does their own laundry. I've never washed my H's clothes.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Well, in my house each person does their own laundry. I've never washed my H's clothes.

DID YOU HEAR ME GASP?! I literally did, quite involuntarily, upon reading your response. Seriously, this is quite a breakthrough for me. I mean, I understand what you're saying, but now I also understand why I was so offended that my SAH SIL did not do my brother's laundry. We had a wringer washer and no drier when I was growing up, and my dad and my brother and I did ALL the other household chores - making school lunches, cooking, mopping floors, grocery shopping, vacuuming, outside, painting walls, etc., but mother (who worked fulltime outside the home since I was 2) washed and ironed the clothes, and I helped. It wasn't a throw things in a machine and come back when they're done done task. Every piece of clothing was passed thru the wringer 3 times, along with swishing it around in the water (at least 2 rinses), then hung on the line, then taken down, then ironed, folded, stacked, THEN put away. And we wonder why we're fat now?! I'm tired just reading about it! Not to mention scrubbing dirty collars and cuffs by hand with cold water and Fels-Naptha soap, then again with Ivory soap so it smelled nice. I sound like the crabby old man on Saturday Night Live. THAT'S doing laundry! And we liked it!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by hankster

I get such a feeling of revulsion everytime I read about people wanting a mother - I feel like the guy in A Clockwork Orange. It WOULD require me being compassionate towards my feelings to even begin to change that; although I realize that is not what you said, I find it useful. But I doubt my feelings in this regard will ever normalize. I want to yell, "YOU BIG BABIES!" - but as the words come out, I hear the echoes from my past.

We're all big babies here. Sit down on the floor and play with us!