[sittingatwatersedge]

the idea of self acceptance is a large & very difficult one for me.

I brought this to T yesterday, something I have just run across in my reading - I thought I would share & ask for comments

The acceptance of oneself is the essence of the moral problem and the epitome of a whole outlook upon life... what I do unto the least of my brethren, that I do unto Christ. But what if I should discover that the least among them all, the poorest of all the beggars, the most impudent of all offenders, the very enemy himself - that these are within me and that I myself stand in need of the alms of my own kindness - that I myself am the enemy that must be loved - what then?"
-- Carl Jung, Modern Man in Search of a Soul

[WePow]

For me, it is an on-going process. Because I started that journey on the very bottom of things, it has taken almost 20 yrs to get to where I am now. And I still have a long way to go. I share that not to discourage you, but to let you know it is not something that happened overnight (in my situation).

The bottom line is to try to start finding just one thing about yourself you like in a day. Even if it is something you think is small such as "I am good at following up on tasks." And write it down in a special journal that will ONLY have these statements in them.

Every day, go back and read all the entries you have before. Read them aloud.
Do this just one time a day.
When you start to be hard on yourself for something, go to that journal and just randomly pick one thing to read.

Doing this will help you start to build those positive self acceptance statements.

Intellectually I knew I too carried the capacity to be the worse as well as the best any human can be, but secretly I feared only bad was within and not good. In therapy as each layer was/is unpeeled
I got afraid of T's correcting me or critising me. Not that she does, and I begun to dread going to therapy. Gradually I realized it was my own realisation begining emotionally, I begun to "look" at those dark parts of me and for a while I thought the knowledge would kill me, I wouldn't be able to bear knowing this about me. But it drip fed itself into my consiousness and not only could I bear it, it "normalized" itself.

When I read about the evil people do now, I don't have knee jerk reactions and fear them, or condem them, I no now that given the wrong circumstances in life we can all be that person, we are all from the same wheel. BUT we do have a choice over what we do with this knowledge, do we let it control us or do we learn to understand it and accept it? In accepting our own inner enermy, we befriend it and take the power away from it.

The greatest way to live with honor in this world is to be what we pretend to be. -Socrates

[Sannah]

This reminds me of defensiveness because it is defensiveness that keeps us from looking at ourselves and accepting ourselves just the way we are. I have just made huge strides in this defensiveness myself and it started by understanding my attachment style.

"Dismissive–avoidant attachment
People with a dismissive style of avoidant attachment tend to agree with these statements: "I am comfortable without close emotional relationships. It is very important to me to feel independent and self-sufficient, and I prefer not to depend on others or have others depend on me." People with this attachment style desire a high level of independence. The desire for independence often appears as an attempt to avoid attachment altogether. They view themselves as self-sufficient and invulnerable to feelings associated with being closely attached to others. They often deny needing close relationships. Some may even view close relationships as relatively unimportant. Not surprisingly, they seek less intimacy with relationship partners, whom they often view less positively than they view themselves. Investigators commonly note the defensive character of this attachment style. People with a dismissive–avoidant attachment style tend to suppress and hide their feelings, and they tend to deal with rejection by distancing themselves from the sources of rejection (i.e., their relationship partners)."

"In Freudian psychoanalytic theory, defence mechanisms (or defense mechanisms) are unconscious[1] psychological strategies brought into play by various entities to cope with reality and to maintain self-image. Healthy persons normally use different defences throughout life. An ego defence mechanism becomes pathological only when its persistent use leads to maladaptive behaviour such that the physical and/or mental health of the individual is adversely affected. The purpose of ego defence mechanisms is to protect the mind/self/ego from anxiety, social sanctions or to provide a refuge from a situation with which one cannot currently cope.[2]"

Vaillant's categorization of defence mechanisms:
[edit] Level 1 - Pathological

The mechanisms on this level, when predominating, almost always are severely pathological. These four defences, in conjunction, permit one to effectively rearrange external experiences to eliminate the need to cope with reality. The pathological users of these mechanisms frequently appear irrational or insane to others. These are the "psychotic" defences, common in overt psychosis. However, they are found in dreams and throughout childhood as well.
They include:

• Delusional Projection: Grossly frank delusions about external reality, usually of a persecutory nature.
• Denial: Refusal to accept external reality because it is too threatening; arguing against an anxiety-provoking stimulus by stating it doesn't exist; resolution of emotional conflict and reduction of anxiety by refusing to perceive or consciously acknowledge the more unpleasant aspects of external reality.
• Distortion: A gross reshaping of external reality to meet internal needs.
• Splitting: A primitive defence. Negative and positive impulses are split off and unintegrated. Fundamental example: An individual views other people as either innately good or innately evil, rather than a whole continuous being.
• Extreme projection: The blatant denial of a moral or psychological deficiency, which is perceived as a deficiency in another individual or group.

[edit] Level 2 - Immature

These mechanisms are often present in adults and more commonly present in adolescents. These mechanisms lessen distress and anxiety provoked by threatening people or by uncomfortable reality. People who excessively use such defences are seen as socially undesirable in that they are immature, difficult to deal with and seriously out of touch with reality. These are the so-called "immature" defences and overuse almost always leads to serious problems in a person's ability to cope effectively. These defences are often seen in severe depression and personality disorders. In adolescence, the occurrence of all of these defences is normal.
They include:

• Acting out: Direct expression of an unconscious wish or impulse in action, without conscious awareness of the emotion that drives that expressive behaviour.
• Fantasy: Tendency to retreat into fantasy in order to resolve inner and outer conflicts.
• Idealization: Unconsciously choosing to perceive another individual as having more positive qualities than he or she may actually have.[14]
• Passive aggression: Aggression towards others expressed indirectly or passively such as using procrastination.
• Projection: Projection is a primitive form of paranoia. Projection also reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the undesirable impulses or desires without becoming consciously aware of them; attributing one's own unacknowledged unacceptable/unwanted thoughts and emotions to another; includes severe prejudice, severe jealousy, hypervigilance to external danger, and "injustice collecting". It is shifting one's unacceptable thoughts, feelings and impulses within oneself onto someone else, such that those same thoughts, feelings, beliefs and motivations are perceived as being possessed by the other.
• Projective identification: The object of projection invokes in that person precisely the thoughts, feelings or behaviours projected.
• Somatization: The transformation of negative feelings towards others into negative feelings toward self, pain, illness, and anxiety.

[edit] Level 3 - Neurotic

These mechanisms are considered neurotic, but fairly common in adults. Such defences have short-term advantages in coping, but can often cause long-term problems in relationships, work and in enjoying life when used as one's primary style of coping with the world.
They include:

• Displacement: Defence mechanism that shifts sexual or aggressive impulses to a more acceptable or less threatening target; redirecting emotion to a safer outlet; separation of emotion from its real object and redirection of the intense emotion toward someone or something that is less offensive or threatening in order to avoid dealing directly with what is frightening or threatening. For example, a mother may yell at her child because she is angry with her husband.
• Dissociation: Temporary drastic modification of one's personal identity or character to avoid emotional distress; separation or postponement of a feeling that normally would accompany a situation or thought.
• Hypochondriasis: An excessive preoccupation or worry about having a serious illness.
• Intellectualization: A form of isolation; concentrating on the intellectual components of a situation so as to distance oneself from the associated anxiety-provoking emotions; separation of emotion from ideas; thinking about wishes in formal, affectively bland terms and not acting on them; avoiding unacceptable emotions by focusing on the intellectual aspects (e.g. isolation, rationalization, ritual, undoing, compensation, magical thinking).
• Isolation: Separation of feelings from ideas and events, for example, describing a murder with graphic details with no emotional response.
• Rationalization (making excuses): Where a person convinces him or herself that no wrong was done and that all is or was all right through faulty and false reasoning. An indicator of this defence mechanism can be seen socially as the formulation of convenient excuses - making excuses.
• Reaction formation: Converting unconscious wishes or impulses that are perceived to be dangerous into their opposites; behaviour that is completely the opposite of what one really wants or feels; taking the opposite belief because the true belief causes anxiety. This defence can work effectively for coping in the short term, but will eventually break down.
• Regression: Temporary reversion of the ego to an earlier stage of development rather than handling unacceptable impulses in a more adult way.
• Repression: The process of attempting to repel desires towards pleasurable instincts, caused by a threat of suffering if the desire is satisfied; the desire is moved to the unconscious in the attempt to prevent it from entering consciousness;[15] seemingly unexplainable naivety, memory lapse or lack of awareness of one's own situation and condition; the emotion is conscious, but the idea behind it is absent.[citation needed]
• Undoing: A person tries to 'undo' an unhealthy, destructive or otherwise threatening thought by engaging in contrary behaviour.
• Withdrawal: Withdrawal is a more severe form of defence. It entails removing oneself from events, stimuli, interactions, etc… that could remind one of painful thoughts and feelings.

[edit] Level 4 - Mature

These are commonly found among emotionally healthy adults and are considered mature, even though many have their origins in an immature stage of development. They have been adapted through the years in order to optimize success in life and relationships. The use of these defences enhances pleasure and feelings of control. These defences help us integrate conflicting emotions and thoughts, while still remaining effective. Those who use these mechanisms are usually considered virtuous.
They include:

• Altruism: Constructive service to others that brings pleasure and personal satisfaction.
• Anticipation: Realistic planning for future discomfort.
• Humour: Overt expression of ideas and feelings (especially those that are unpleasant to focus on or too terrible to talk about) that gives pleasure to others. The thoughts retain a portion of their innate distress, but they are "skirted round" by witticism.
• Identification: The unconscious modelling of one's self upon another person's character and behaviour.
• Introjection: Identifying with some idea or object so deeply that it becomes a part of that person.
• Sublimation: Transformation of negative emotions or instincts into positive actions, behaviour, or emotion.
• Thought suppression: The conscious process of pushing thoughts into the preconscious; the conscious decision to delay paying attention to an emotion or need in order to cope with the present reality; making it possible to later access uncomfortable or distressing emotions while accepting them."

[sittingatwatersedge]

so there is no such thing as altruism, really, it's only a defense mechanism?! that's depressing.

Naah....

[Sannah]

This was one of my defense mechanisms! I still volunteer but now since I'm aware that I was using it when I was upset about something I no longer use it for that purpose, you know, making the unconscious conscious. So no, not all altruism is a defense mechanism but some of it might be.

Really, me just being aware of this released so much of my defensiveness it was almost unbelievable. (I released so much of it that I didn't need my defense mechanisms anymore to deal with it!)

Once we accept our "humanness" its not depressing. Doesn't mean we don't do things because we care. We can care and be human at the same time. Being human is as altrustic (is that a word lol) as we can get, and that's enought, truely.

[sittingatwatersedge]

being human is acceptable; it seems that Jung is talking about more than that.

the most impudent of all offenders, the very enemy himself - that these are within me

There isn't anymore than that.

[sittingatwatersedge]

oh I disagree. It's one thing to cheat on an exam, and another to be a perp - just as an example.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

oh I disagree. It's one thing to cheat on an exam, and another to be a perp - just as an example.

What the $%A^^? You folks have totally lost me in your conversation.

I do want to talk about self acceptance, though, because I have learned a little about that recently, or I've realized that I am in a different place with it.

My T and I were reviewing yesterday some of the ground we've covered, and how some of that ground is not ground that I necessarily intended to cover. We had a long conversation about how frustrating it was for me when he consistently refused to collude in my bad feelings about myself. I posted about this once not too long ago. And then I stopped asking him to do that, but I still liked to beat myself up and have him witness it, either by giving him my journal or directly talking about it in front of him. Then one day I realized as I was doing it inside my head, distracting me from the wonderful exchange I was having with my T, that I just wanted to stop (beating myself up). I just lost interest in doing it. And since then, my journal writings have lost this as a major theme, and I have written (and feel) more accepting towards those parts of myself that were or are vulnerable, compliant (a big issue for me, as I now think of myself as a brave person who defends others from abusers) or even wounded and hurt. So I guess that part of what I have learned is either direct modeling from my T in that I refuse to collude with myself any more. Or I have internalized his tender and compassionate stance towards those parts of me and made this my own response. Or maybe I just got sick of myself and there eventually was some sort of catharsis of getting it all out of my system and now I don't need to try to beat up on myself anymore. Whatever has happened in terms of greater self acceptance, I'm pretty sure has something to do with my T.

The other thing I notice is that I am no longer disrespectful and avoidant in my response to reading my own journals. This seems like a bit of self acceptance too.

And one more thing I notice-- the more self accepting I am, the less critical I am of others. I suspect this is also a good thing.

Anne

Sitting, nope both examples are within the range of being human. Cheating and being a perp, both still human. There are no god nor devils. My particular pathology isn't to be a perp, nor to cheat, but I am well aware that some peoples are. If we start to detach ourselfs from these behaviours and labelling them as inhuman then we loose ourselves. If you read my original reply I explain this. Once we have self acceptence we learn to understand the full range of what humans are capable off.

[skysblue]

This topic of self-acceptance has been dominant in my conversations with T. And the word 'humanness' has come up often. It has been hard for me to accept what I call 'the bad' in me. I guess striving for perfection (in character, not in say, being a perfect housewife or a perfect mathematician or a perfect bookkeeper) will always result in disappointment. I still don't know how to balance the laudable effort to be a good person with the inevitable failings that accompany that effort.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

.... Once we have self acceptence we learn to understand the full range of what humans are capable off.

I know what they're capable of. I can even make excuses for others, to a degree that might surprise you, because I can't know all the circumstances that led to their actions; but for myself, I can find no excuses, I know the circumstances.

3rd times, for your parts that are vulnerable, compliant, wounded, or hurt; that's not what I am refering to though.

oh and earthMom - about this >> There are no god nor devils
I absolutely disagree. What a dangerous assertion that is. besides we are talking about people. now don't go hijacking my thread , you can PM me if you want.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by skysblue

I still don't know how to balance the laudable effort to be a good person with the inevitable failings that accompany that effort.

excellent point. To counter a focus on inadequacies, or failures, T asks me to list my talents, at another time my achievements, but why? at the end she says, these are not you.

Sitting, sorry I didn't realise I was "hijacking" "your" thread, I thought we were having a conversation, a subject that interests me very much. I'll bow out peacefully in that case.

Regards.

[sittingatwatersedge]

I didn't say you were, I only asked you not to (this is not the thread to discuss whether or not God or devils exist), that's all. Just in case we were headed in that direction. If not, why bow out?

[confuseduk]

"...To dream of the person you wish to be is a waste of the person you are..."

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by confuseduk

"...To dream of the person you wish to be is a waste of the person you are..."

So, accept what a shithole I am and don't waste myself by wishing I were better?

[lastyearisblank]

“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? ...Your playing small does not serve the world....And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

Just a quote I saw and liked this week!

[sittingatwatersedge]

[quote=lastyearisblank;2043294] “Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. /quote]

not for me...

[Wysteria]

Hi Sitting at Waters Edge...

You know, I've always believed as many have also said they felt, that there was something inherently flawed, deeply black or dirty, or different about me that did not allow me to thrive and flourish and be worthy and loveable like others. I have mistreated myself and doubted and talked down to myself for years. Look at where it has left me...Depressed, broken and scarred.

In the end, I would never treat a dog the way I treat myself nor would I allow anyone else to treat a friend the way I treat myself. That is what finally brought me to the realization that I had to accept myself. I'm learning how to do that. Sometimes I rely much more on my T's vision of me or his hope for me than I do my own...But I want to accept me and that is what I'm working towards. That I'm inherently acceptable and worthy of my time and efforts and being loved. You are too. We all are...

We do not believe in ourselves until someone reveals that deep inside us is valuable, worth listening to, worthy of our trust, sacred to our touch. Once we believe in ourselves we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
- e.e. Cummings

I want very much to be full of wonder and to go out into my world and find peace and joy and serenity and love. You're worth it. Why aren't I? Turn it around and you'll see that it can work for you too. You are exactly who you need to be right now to be who you will be tomorrow... I hope you can accept that. That's where I started and it seems to be helping. T is the one holding up the mirror to help reveal that I am worthy of self-acceptance...so are you. You deserve it. You earned it.

I don't know if this helps at all...I hope it might. I've attached a little something that helps me..maybe it will give you a little strength too..

Hugs,
Wysteria Blue

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Wysteria

Hi Sitting at Waters Edge...

You know, I've always believed as many have also said they felt, that there was something inherently flawed, deeply black or dirty, or different about me that did not allow me to thrive and flourish and be worthy and loveable like others. I have mistreated myself and doubted and talked down to myself for years. Look at where it has left me...Depressed, broken and scarred.

In the end, I would never treat a dog the way I treat myself nor would I allow anyone else to treat a friend the way I treat myself. That is what finally brought me to the realization that I had to accept myself. I'm learning how to do that. Sometimes I rely much more on my T's vision of me or his hope for me than I do my own...But I want to accept me and that is what I'm working towards. That I'm inherently acceptable and worthy of my time and efforts and being loved. You are too. We all are...

We do not believe in ourselves until someone reveals that deep inside us is valuable, worth listening to, worthy of our trust, sacred to our touch. Once we believe in ourselves we can risk curiosity, wonder, spontaneous delight, or any experience that reveals the human spirit.
- e.e. Cummings

I want very much to be full of wonder and to go out into my world and find peace and joy and serenity and love. You're worth it. Why aren't I? Turn it around and you'll see that it can work for you too. You are exactly who you need to be right now to be who you will be tomorrow... I hope you can accept that. That's where I started and it seems to be helping. T is the one holding up the mirror to help reveal that I am worthy of self-acceptance...so are you. You deserve it. You earned it.

I don't know if this helps at all...I hope it might. I've attached a little something that helps me..maybe it will give you a little strength too..

Hugs,
Wysteria Blue

I think this is so TRUE! I began my first T years ago with a nagging sense that I did not feel worthy. I think on some level I believed that others could SEE my brokeness, flaws, awful history -- that I was somehow "marked" or even cursed...I was so far from self-acceptance...T was exactly what WB says here...the mirror that could reflect me as I was, not as my self-loathing made me appear. My self loathing was a kind of otical illusion that caused me to see myself as UNACCEPTABLE. T helped me to see with more perspective, clarity, honesty and love. I still struggle a lot with self acceptance, even this far into the process. The only thing is, I know people who have never attempted any kind of T or any kind of self inquiry, and compared to those I know who have, they seem kind of BLIND.

I think this self acceptance thread has been important and illuminating...

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by skysblue

So, accept what a shithole I am and don't waste myself by wishing I were better?

Acceptance of who you are in this very moment must occur before any moving forward is going to happen. Why? Because you need a stable foundation to start your work. If you won't accept who you are then your foundation is a mirage. Work must begin with a stable foundation.

And I get the feeling that you are being way too tough on yourself anyway.

There must be a lot of pain in facing who you are?