does anyone tape their appointments?

No no no no no! That would be a GROSS betrayal of everything your therapist is trying to do.

Ask permission to tape: yes.
Insist on taping: yes.
Saying, "Let me tape my sessions or I'm out of here": ok

But taping someone behind their back, especially someone who is trying to help you, is WRONG.

Anyway, how are you going to use that tape without confessing that you taped them against their will?

in some situations its legal and in others its not. example here in the USA businesses and stores tape people without their permission first, the police department tapes people without their permission, airports, hospitals, train stations, even the highway transportation department video tape. a lot of towns and sities in the US also have cams set up so people can go online and watch the traffic or the scenery. Zoos also video tape without getting someones permission. Schools and colleges tape classes hall ways, entry ways without permission, transportation departments tape without passengers permission on school buses and travel buses...

basically since 9/11 happened just about every public access place, business, or agency now video tapes the goings on without permission of those using those public buildings and places.

that said there are some situations that its still not legal to tape without someones permission such as court hearings cant be taped without the parents, guardians or social services permission if a minor is involved, you cant video tape your neighbor and use it in court without the courts permission and verification of authenticity. because of privacy laws doctors cant video tape your being in the exam room but can video tape the waiting room (public access area) mental health providers can tape in the waiting rooms but cant tape your therapy sessions without a signed release form.

How about private citizens secretly taping someone... like, say, their boss at a meeting where they think the boss might say something incriminating?

Sorry, this is way off the topic of the thread, but I wondered. And don't worry, I know better than to take someone's posts on a thread as legal advice, but if anyone has any ideas, it might help me get started if I ever feel the need to actually research this question.

One could use it for themselves to listen to if one found the t's voice soothing or wanted to review what happened in order to better take it in and other things like that - It would only need to be revealed if one confronted the t with the evidence. I do not see it as a betrayal at all if one was using the tapes for the former. Frankly I do not think a t would care one way or the other even when confronted with evidence.

Regarding "surreptitious" taping:

I challenge you to ask your T about that. I'd be really interested in the response.

Which part?

Taping your therapist in secret.

Whether they would see it as a betrayal or just if they would care? I do not mind asking them. I do not think it would matter to me how they viewed it.

It varies by state, I believe. I had shown a cute little pen recorder I bought (before everyone had tiny cellphones) and my boss was FURIOUS that at the thought that I might use it at work. stupid me, I might have gotten evidence that would have stopped me from getting fired. but it would have been legal for me to record without asking. my pdoc said so! and my boss said, who does your t get his legal advice from, ally mcbeal? ha ha.

Just my opinion, but in personal relationships, including intimate ones, work related ones, T's, etc., it just seems to me that if the relationship has deteriorated to the point where you need to record conversations without asking permission from the person being recorded, that is a Big Red Flag that perhaps you should fly out of that relationship as fast as your legs and head can take you. I think there is just basic human decency involved here, or the lack thereof, when recordings are made without at least asking whether it's okay. It just seems to me that if you know you will need to record something for "protection", then maybe you should just avoid being there so you don't have to actually experience what you supposedly need to be protected from.

Anne

just wanted to say, I had bought the device to record jokes while I was walking. it was an impulse buy at radio shack. I was just showing it at work when my boss went nuts - didn't even know I was in trouble til then!

Hiya hankster, of course, I wasn't trying to point my finger at you and say "bad hanky", just was trying to make a general statement, apparently not so successfully. [story of my life]

Anne

just wanted to throw something into the mix..last week when unhappyguy posted that he thought his t was taping him without his consent everyone got all upset..."oh the horror"..the nerve, etc...the t was wrong...

but now..it's ok for a client to do so without the t's consent?

wow...a slippery slope we live on here at pc...just sayin'

me..i have no need to tape my t. i trust her. she makes a mistake she fesses up to it. i make one i do too. my crappy first t didn't. screwed me up big time. took me a while but i learned to trust my t i have now & i moved on...i just think in all walks of like you come across people who are jerks & who mess with your psyche & try to hurt you. sometimes they do. you hurt, then heal & move on. i try to treat people the way i want to be treated & feel sorry for those others. life's to short to get caught up in a he said, she said battle.

because really..even if you go back & prove to this t she was wrong..what will you gain...you aren't ever going to get an apology from her...

I would consider taping without permission a violation, either me of T or T of me! I don't see any reason either of us would need to do that, anyway.

I find such things a bit sneaky. I had an employer who used the record function on his phone to record what (if anything) people said about him when he left a room. He would come back a few minutes later to retrieve the phone that he had 'forgot' to take with him.

I sometimes think it'd help to tape sessions because when I come out I can't seem to remember much. But I think if you want a good therapeutic relationship based on trust you should ask, I don't think most T's would mind if it would help you process things.

First - taping without permission was not the initial aim of this thread. As far as mine go, they (I have now asked both) do not care one way or the other. But there is a huge power differential in a client taping t from t taping client. T's can cause more damage to clients than vice versa. That is why I saw the horror in a t taping without permission. They need to be transparent. EVen if you do not get an apology, you get peace of mind in knowing that you are not the one who was wrong.

so i guess you being wanted to be treated as a professional by a professional (trusted, honest, etc in a safe open environment) is not going to happen if you feel the need to assume that there will always be a trust issue.

i guess my concern ,issue what ever is that there will never be enough to satisfy your levels of anger towards this t & towards any other one. the newer t has not done anything to harm you or damage your trust in 8 months but still you treat her as tho she will damage you. the one who did harm you you insist on revisiting to the point of self harm (physical & mental).

to me therapy is a matter of trust...i have to be willing to place some trust in the skills of the practicioner..just as i am in the skills of the mechanic, surgeon etc. i have many skills..& can fix many things...but some things i am not able to do on my own. for those issues i need help...i must assume after checking the credentials of the mechanic, surgeon etc that they are skilled at their craft. yes it is a leap of faith...if it doesn't work out then i can opt to never return file a complaint with the required reporting agency or just simply chalk it up to a lesson learned & move on. but as some point regardless i must move on & ahead..the car, my body..what ever the issue is must get repaired..the initial issue has to get resolved. wallowing, fuming raging against it does not solve the initial issue that brought me to the contractor in the first place.

you aren't taping the sessions to learn from them..you only want to tape them to see if you can catch someone in a trap...honestly it sounds like you want them to screw up.

to me it's just sad..so different from how i do my therapy...

Maybe "want" isn't the word so much as "expect"? Or what would be the verb in repetition compulsion, where you (that is, I!) keep setting up the same situation, hoping this time it will turn out differently? On the other hand, you DON'T want it to succeed, so you can say to yourself, that proves it, I was right. I was thinking about this at the bus stop last night, oh, re the do we create our own trauma thread. I was CONVINCED that everytime something good happened, something bad would follow. T's called it magical thinking. I had proof. They said I was setting it up myself. Who would do such a thing? Well, it has stopped since I stopped "conferring" with my mother. I am starting to be able to enjoy my little successes - as long as I keep them very very tiny and quiet...

Actually it is not to trap them. It is for me to learn something. No need for sadness or your approval. You have misconstrued my posts. The second one and I are doing well together. I accept I do therapy differently from you and that is fine with me.

Although some of what you wrote is a little judgmental, I do appreciate this last part. A therapist who is going to bold-face lie to you about things that were said/done in previous sessions isn't going to make amends for it or validate your frustration, so...point well taken.