[Chopin99]

Session today did not go exactly as planned but that is not necessarily a bad thing. She started the session by telling me, "I've been thinking about you and your last email since I got it." That was Friday. This is the entirety of the email:

In a nutshell, I still don't know what I believe. I feel just as agnostic as I did three years ago. Have I been pretending to have a faith I don't possess? Is that why I cannot seem to free-fall, to let go? My mind and heart are at war. Please pray for me. I won't bother you again.

She said she was perplexed and asked why I made a 180-degree turnaround from Wednesday. I told her because I'd been dealing with the faith issue for quite some time. All my life really. I said it was hard to believe that faith was as simple as making a decision because I had been taught so differently from the age of 5 to 23, when I left the church completely.

She feels that everything comes back to the fact that I feel unworthy. I got a promotion and that's a good thing, but deep down I believe I don't deserve it. I don't deserve to believe in a God who forgives my sins because I'm not worthy of it. I talked in more detail about the things that bother me about my new job (instability, change, and another issue I don't want to talk about right now that took 15 minutes of session to discuss).

I read half of my journal letter to her:
With the pressures and fears quickly mounting in the areas of work, therapy, and faith, I just want reassurance that I will be okay no matter what. I am really very afraid right now. I've been using strategies that were effective in the past, but they aren't working. I am afraid that I've been "practicing" a faith I don't truly possess. That I have never possessed. This has been in my mind for quite some time. I've been ignoring my concerns; choosing to soldier on. I know I need to address these concerns, sooner rather than later. I'm always afraid it's too late for me.

So I didn't get into the physical affection part this time. I stated that I felt I needed to work on the faith issue before I did anything else because it is my main support and I believe that I will work through some of my past issues through this. She agreed wholeheartedly. She also agreed to see me 2x/week every other week instead of kinda brushing that off like she did last time? So I see her next Wednesday AND Thursday.

Also, I told her that a friend of mine invited me to her church, which is T's church. She said to please come if I wanted to. She also invited me to take a class (that she is not in), but not to feel obligated.

Two really good things about the session:
1. It was the most laid-back session (not in content, but in rapport) that I have ever had. She actually sat crossed-legged, Indian style in her chair, so I stretched out on the loveseat. I used the pillow to playfully hide behind and even sat it on top of my head for a little while and made her laugh. It was very comfortable (considering the content), like I was with a friend I'd known forever.
2. She actually gave me a REAL hug again at the end (although she made sure the door was open) and said softly, "You will be okay." That made my day!

The absolute best thing was that I truly felt supported again for the first time since the rupture!!!

I love T!!!

[healed84]

Wow, sounds like a great session and it sound like you really do have a great T!! And can I just say, I totally identify witn you about questioning your faith.. and that being the most important thing that you need to work on right now. I have been in the same spot off and on for a couple of years now.. Not a fun place.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by healed84

Wow, sounds like a great session and it sound like you really do have a great T!! And can I just say, I totally identify witn you about questioning your faith.. and that being the most important thing that you need to work on right now. I have been in the same spot off and on for a couple of years now.. Not a fun place.

I really do have a good T. I also have a good H. We just had an hour-long talk about faith and I realize I need to decide what I believe, no matter how long that takes. It is my journey right now.

[CantExplain]

Well done, Chopin!

I think you will be a great boss. I want to work for you!

[granite1]

great work.let us know how you are doing at your new job.i also think you will be OK just breathe a lot.congratulations

[SallyBrown]

That's wonderful Chopin. I'm so glad it went well! You'll get to the touch stuff when you get to it; I'm really glad that what you did talk about was so helpful and full of support.

As for faith, I did find that once I settled on my beliefs, everything clicked and I've felt a lot happier since. And I would never have predicted when that was going to happen, so just be patient. It'll work out

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Well done, Chopin!

I think you will be a great boss. I want to work for you!

The thing I like about this new position...is that I won't be a boss. I'm a boss now and dislike managing. My role will be "coordinating"; ensuring the new programs and those who run them do not fail.

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

That's wonderful Chopin. I'm so glad it went well! You'll get to the touch stuff when you get to it; I'm really glad that what you did talk about was so helpful and full of support.

As for faith, I did find that once I settled on my beliefs, everything clicked and I've felt a lot happier since. And I would never have predicted when that was going to happen, so just be patient. It'll work out

I just have to do some soul-searching on my beliefs. I think my problem is this: I've never really decided what I believe; I have just adopted the beliefs of others. I have very little "sense of self" and I see developing my belief system as the first step in that.

[kitten16]

It's actually kind of a rare and risky thing for T's to actually admit that they've been thinking about you. I think it's their (sometimes unconscious) way of admitting that you're important to them, and not just in therapy. It's really a HUGE step for a therapist to make.

It's not just us clients who make big steps along the way. Therapists develop too. This is significant! Rejoice!

I'm envious! ))
k.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Session today did not go exactly as planned but that is not necessarily a bad thing. She started the session by telling me, "I've been thinking about you and your last email since I got it." That was Friday. This is the entirety of the email:

In a nutshell, I still don't know what I believe. I feel just as agnostic as I did three years ago. Have I been pretending to have a faith I don't possess? Is that why I cannot seem to free-fall, to let go? My mind and heart are at war. Please pray for me. I won't bother you again.

She said she was perplexed and asked why I made a 180-degree turnaround from Wednesday. I told her because I'd been dealing with the faith issue for quite some time. All my life really. I said it was hard to believe that faith was as simple as making a decision because I had been taught so differently from the age of 5 to 23, when I left the church completely.

She feels that everything comes back to the fact that I feel unworthy. I got a promotion and that's a good thing, but deep down I believe I don't deserve it. I don't deserve to believe in a God who forgives my sins because I'm not worthy of it. I talked in more detail about the things that bother me about my new job (instability, change, and another issue I don't want to talk about right now that took 15 minutes of session to discuss).

I read half of my journal letter to her:
With the pressures and fears quickly mounting in the areas of work, therapy, and faith, I just want reassurance that I will be okay no matter what. I am really very afraid right now. I've been using strategies that were effective in the past, but they aren't working. I am afraid that I've been "practicing" a faith I don't truly possess. That I have never possessed. This has been in my mind for quite some time. I've been ignoring my concerns; choosing to soldier on. I know I need to address these concerns, sooner rather than later. I'm always afraid it's too late for me.

So I didn't get into the physical affection part this time. I stated that I felt I needed to work on the faith issue before I did anything else because it is my main support and I believe that I will work through some of my past issues through this. She agreed wholeheartedly. She also agreed to see me 2x/week every other week instead of kinda brushing that off like she did last time? So I see her next Wednesday AND Thursday.

Also, I told her that a friend of mine invited me to her church, which is T's church. She said to please come if I wanted to. She also invited me to take a class (that she is not in), but not to feel obligated.

Two really good things about the session:
1. It was the most laid-back session (not in content, but in rapport) that I have ever had. She actually sat crossed-legged, Indian style in her chair, so I stretched out on the loveseat. I used the pillow to playfully hide behind and even sat it on top of my head for a little while and made her laugh. It was very comfortable (considering the content), like I was with a friend I'd known forever.
2. She actually gave me a REAL hug again at the end (although she made sure the door was open) and said softly, "You will be okay." That made my day!

The absolute best thing was that I truly felt supported again for the first time since the rupture!!!

I love T!!!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by kitten16

It's actually kind of a rare and risky thing for T's to actually admit that they've been thinking about you. I think it's their (sometimes unconscious) way of admitting that you're important to them, and not just in therapy. It's really a HUGE step for a therapist to make.

It's not just us clients who make big steps along the way. Therapists develop too. This is significant! Rejoice!

I'm envious! ))
k.

Eh, maybe. My T has been everywhere on the spectrum from cool and clinical to seriously stretching boundaries toward "friend" (she actually contemplated a post-therapy friendship). She seems to genuinely like me and the feeling is mutual. She has told me she loves me several times.

I feel best with a friendly approach with good boundaries. The friendship thing was too much. I like it now: solid boundaries, good listening, helping me find answers, email once in a while, hugs, and the occasional "I love you."

I just want a little more physical affection and I'm going to advocate for that next session.

[Wren_]

that's great you have evidence of your T thinking of you something to hold on to also when any doubt comes up ever So what do you think, will you try your T's church? it seems as though you've got a good balance going on with her now with that friendly approach plus boundaries

I remember once being given a task of writing down what I believe as far as faith is concerned, in a lot more detail than just saying "i believe" and then looking at why I believed it. It wasn't a T thing but it helped at the time ... and probably something I should do again

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by tigergirl

that's great you have evidence of your T thinking of you something to hold on to also when any doubt comes up ever So what do you think, will you try your T's church? it seems as though you've got a good balance going on with her now with that friendly approach plus boundaries

I remember once being given a task of writing down what I believe as far as faith is concerned, in a lot more detail than just saying "i believe" and then looking at why I believed it. It wasn't a T thing but it helped at the time ... and probably something I should do again

I realize I don't really have beliefs of my own; I've always adopted what others in my life believe, but it's time for me to decide. I decided two things at lunch today: I believe in God and I believe He created the universe. Not much, but it's a start.

I don't know if I'll visit T's church. I have no issue with the church in and of itself, it's just not my thing. It is a non-denominational megachurch. It is likely I'd go and never see T there! Literally thousands of people attend and it has a budget of over $5 million...$550,000 goes to missions...$2.5 million go to staff salaries! I don't like large crowds and that's an awful lot of money for staff salaries.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this post. Just my humble opinion!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

Okay - eeeuuuuwwww!!! could you please post that in LGBTQA next time??? I'm turning 60 next week and I think my hormones just flamed out one last time and now died forever... Seriously, a friend had a T "prescribe" her husband hold her for an hour like every day. Would your H do that for you?

Well I certainly didn't mean to gross you out Hank...all I meant was holding hands or a longer hug!

I get physical affection from H, maybe not enough, but remember I have a "mommy crush" on T. I'm basically asking for what I wanted from my mom as a kid. Might get it from T, might not. Never hurts to ask.

[Wren_]

i can't imagine going to a mega one either; all those people and all that money ... insane and so unlike "normal" churches ... it's a great start with what you were deciding at least you are identifying what you believe not what someone has said to

[unaluna]

Sorry, chopin, I was out of line again. I have a "thing" tomorrow and i'm a little stressed out. but I did have a bit of a reaction to your post, and of course we don't know what you talked about for that deleted 18 minutes of tape yesterday
but this affection business feels coercive to me; faith being the first order of business feels delaying to me. I think you might be acting out the mommy crush, not sufficiently mentalizing it. I never thought I'd use that term ("mentalizing"), but there you go. When your T said she worked with all personality disorders, it didn't mean she was great at handling all of them - it was more like, she isn't one of those T's who says, no more BPD's for me.

Something is going on, I don't know what. I don't understand what is behind your repeating the words "physical affection" - I only know it upsets me somehow. I hope that doesn't unduly upset you. It could just be all my carp.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Well I certainly didn't mean to gross you out Hank...all I meant was holding hands or a longer hug!

I can totally relate to this myself. One thing that I've liked about reading this forum is learning not only about different types of relationships that therapists have with their everyone, but also about different people wanting different types of things with their therapists. Sometimes it's hard for me to conceptualize relationships different from my wants, but what I've most learned on PC is that there isn't *one* way to have a therapy relationship and different isn't bad.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

Sorry, chopin, I was out of line again. I have a "thing" tomorrow and i'm a little stressed out. but I did have a bit of a reaction to your post, and of course we don't know what you talked about for that deleted 18 minutes of tape yesterday
but this affection business feels coercive to me; faith being the first order of business feels delaying to me. I think you might be acting out the mommy crush, not sufficiently mentalizing it. I never thought I'd use that term ("mentalizing"), but there you go. When your T said she worked with all personality disorders, it didn't mean she was great at handling all of them - it was more like, she isn't one of those T's who says, no more BPD's for me.

Something is going on, I don't know what. I don't understand what is behind your repeating the words "physical affection" - I only know it upsets me somehow. I hope that doesn't unduly upset you. It could just be all my carp.

Well...that's what we're here for...we all have various and sundry forms of carp!

Using the term "physical affection"...it is a phrase we use at my work to mean any form of touch with clients. Regarding the 15 minutes I didn't mention...I just didn't feel like going into it last night because it's a long story, but I'll tell a very abbreviated version of it. I ain't skeered!

Two weeks after I married H, I began a 5-year affair with my boss' boss (the woman who at that time was in the position I currently hold at work). That relationship became convoluted, eventually included my H, became abusive in many ways, involved blackmail by a bf of hers, she got pregnant by another guy, we mutually decided enough was enough and it ended.

The strange part is that we remain friends...and we both still have feelings for each other. We just don't act on it. I am her daughter's godmother. I love her son. I don't like her H because he is abusive. I don't get involved; it's her life now. She is bipolar. Currently manic.

...aaaaaaand now that my job is open, she wants to come back. She meets with my boss tomorrow morning.

...aaaaaaand T completely freaked. She doesn't want me to be involved with ex-gf. It is something I have been completely unwilling to budge on so far. T has accepted that I'm not going to budge. However, she is worried that having to deal with "an area of weakness" and bipolar on a daily basis will set me back.

She also worried about a bipolar person in my job position. Apparently being depressed and anxious with OCD and borderline traits is okay, though!

I couldn't even imagine wanting to have a s*xual relationship with T. Having feelings for two people is overwhelming enough. In fact, I want something not s*xual at all!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by eastcoaster

I can totally relate to this myself. One thing that I've liked about reading this forum is learning not only about different types of relationships that therapists have with their everyone, but also about different people wanting different types of things with their therapists. Sometimes it's hard for me to conceptualize relationships different from my wants, but what I've most learned on PC is that there isn't *one* way to have a therapy relationship and different isn't bad.

No it isn't bad. I've had three types of relationships with three different T's and they were all fine! Never touched or was touched by my first T; wouldn't have wanted her to. Hugged second T every session, but the whole relationship was shallow. Plus, different people like/want/need different things.

I think the deal with the touch is that I want to learn that touch from an older female is okay and safe. My mom wasn't affectionate, a female high school teacher was too affectionate, and the ex-gf I refer to above is 13 years older than me.

[unaluna]

Dude, 13 yrs is technically old enough to BE your mother. Thanks for being honest with me. Sorry for being a pest. I felt like you were waiting for me to respond to your last thread about the reasonable request? I hope this all explains what was going on with me, as to why I didn't respond. I knew you had to have a conversation about your past relationships and how they relate to your request and I didn't want to interfere with the therapeutic tension; I think the conversation will be ongoing and wish you hope, insight, and success.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Well I certainly didn't mean to gross you out Hank...all I meant was holding hands or a longer hug!

I get physical affection from H, maybe not enough, but remember I have a "mommy crush" on T. I'm basically asking for what I wanted from my mom as a kid. Might get it from T, might not. Never hurts to ask.

No fair! Hankster has deleted her post! Now I'll never know what this was all about.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

The thing I like about this new position...is that I won't be a boss. I'm a boss now and dislike managing. My role will be "coordinating"; ensuring the new programs and those who run them do not fail.

Ouch! That hurt. I wonder why?

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by hankster

Dude, 13 yrs is technically old enough to BE your mother. Thanks for being honest with me. Sorry for being a pest. I felt like you were waiting for me to respond to your last thread about the reasonable request? I hope this all explains what was going on with me, as to why I didn't respond. I knew you had to have a conversation about your past relationships and how they relate to your request and I didn't want to interfere with the therapeutic tension; I think the conversation will be ongoing and wish you hope, insight, and success.

Funny story. My ex-gf went to a Bible college and interviewed for a job at the parochial school I attended. She decided not to take it because of the many rules they had for teachers. If she had accepted, she would've been my 6th grade teacher!

I forgot besides my mom, the ex-gf, and the touchy teacher; there's also my b*tchy ex-boss (with whom I replayed my relationship with my mom). It seems I've always had rocky relationships with older women so it is healing to go through the relationship with T.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Ouch! That hurt. I wonder why?

Why would it hurt? I asked not to have to manage. My skills are technical/professional rather than managerial. So the bottom line is I'll be doing work I LIKE to do!

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Why would it hurt? I asked not to have to manage. My skills are technical/professional rather than managerial. So the bottom line is I'll be doing work I LIKE to do!

I meant it hurt me.
And I wondered why I felt hurt.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I meant it hurt me.
And I wondered why I felt hurt.

What do you think hurt you?

That I won't be a boss and couldn't be your boss?

That I don't want to be a boss?

Don't want to hurt you by anything I say; it's just your comment reminded me that I don't have to manage anymore. That makes me happy.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

What do you think hurt you?

That I won't be a boss and couldn't be your boss?

That I don't want to be a boss?

Don't want to hurt you by anything I say; it's just your comment reminded me that I don't have to manage anymore. That makes me happy.

Maybe I felt rejected because you didn't want to be my boss.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Maybe I felt rejected because you didn't want to be my boss.

Well, I don't want to be anyone's boss.

I'd be honored to work with or alongside you on a project!

I'm a collaborative sort.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

Well, I don't want to be anyone's boss.

I'd be honored to work with or alongside you on a project!

I'm a collaborative sort.

Great! Let's work together!