[Chopin99]

***Possible trigger; not abuse, but emotional situation.

This is what I just wrote in my journal that brought me to tears:

I am very depressed. I have been afraid to leave the house since yesterday. I do not want to be around people, but I am on-call for work and company is coming this evening.

I remember when Mom was agoraphobic for several months when I was 10 or 11 years old. She could barely take me to or pick me up from school. I hope I never get that bad. I'll lose my job.

I felt like I was in a decent frame of mind this week overall, but *client's mom* asked me if I was okay Thursday. Maybe I'm fooling myself.

I reread what I wrote Thursday evening to T. Thinking back on the last few sessions, I remember that she's also physically pushed me out of her office twice recently. I feel silly asking for affection. Does she really not like me? Do I annoy her? Does she think I'm crazy? Does she get disgusted by me? Does she think my desire for affection is sexual? How should I know? If I ask, she might lie to me. Everybody lies for all kinds of reasons. I just crave motherly affection. I wonder if this is what my bisexuality is all about? I really just want to be held by an older female. Nothing sexual about it. I want to be comforted. I want to be reassured that I will be okay. In my childhood, nothing was ever okay. Nothing I did was good enough. Nothing I did to try to make Mom feel better worked. She was always depressed and sad or anxious and angry. Then when I was 15, I slapped her and called her a selfish b***h. I started screaming and ran into my room and shut the door and Dad literally broke the door down, picked me up, and threw me over his shoulder, carried me into the living room and put me down on the couch and said, "What in the hell is wrong with you? How dare you call your mother that name after all she's done for you. We don't know what to do with you anymore. If you don't calm the hell down, we'll take you to *local psychiatric hospital*."

They didn't take me. I stopped screaming, but cried and cried. Dad fixed my door, but it still has a hole in it 19 years later where he broke it down with his fist.

I really am a horrible person. Who would do that to their own mother? I'm becoming her; depressed and sad or anxious and angry. It's why I haven't had kids yet. I don't want to be my mother and I don't want my kid to become me.

[Nelliecat]

(((((Chopin)))))

I don't believe you're horrible

I understand the craving for maternal affection. I've had this need ever since my teens and it is making itself known in T. It's hard and I wish I could say something to make you feel better. I just wanted you to know that I know how you feel.

[Callmebj]

Chopin, I doubt if pushing you out of the office was anymore than having another patient due in. I can remember my mom pushing me away when I tried to hug her.
She was a pretty sick woman with schizophrenia/paranoid problems. As much as you wanted to help your mother, she was beyond your help. I think having a mom like that
leaves lasting negative impressions on a person.

I think I eventually built a big wall between my mother and my self so as to protect me from her and her emotional/physical abuse. I've had periods where I wanted to be affirmed by an older woman...luckily I did wind up with a really great mother-in-law.
She was my surrogate mother for years and years.

I thought too that I was too damaged to be a good mother. I knew I instinctively I could not be a worthy mom without cutting off the negatives in my own mothering.
That wasn't easy as you have to act according to your feelings of what a good mother should be....and not with learned behaviors.

Yes I think that could be one of the many reasons people become bisexual/gay..of course there is the argument that people are born that way. Just my thoughts. Take Care and hugs to you. bj

[Chopin99]

Thanks Nellie and BJ

Originally Posted by Callmebj

Chopin, I doubt if pushing you out of the office was anymore than having another patient due in. I can remember my mom pushing me away when I tried to hug her.

I am her last client of the day on Wednesdays. She never did this until we had a rupture a little over a month ago. She would sometimes put her hand on my back and guide me, but that hand has pushed me twice now. I don't know if she realizes she's doing it.

Originally Posted by Callmebj

Yes I think that could be one of the many reasons people become bisexual/gay..of course there is the argument that people are born that way. Just my thoughts.

I believe it's just as possible I was born that way. However, I do have a pattern of looking for "mothers" and I fall in love with them.

[SallyBrown]

I really am a horrible person. Who would do that to their own mother? I'm becoming her; depressed and sad or anxious and angry. It's why I haven't had kids yet. I don't want to be my mother and I don't want my kid to become me.

One emotional outburst for which you feel sorry (and no you shouldn't strike your mom, but one slap is more like an outburst of emotion than an actual desire to cause physical harm) does not a horrible person make... and the fact that you are going to wait to have kids until you're ready to face managing your own mental health AND caring for children means you're definitely not a horrible person.

I am feeling the same way right now. I am almost right at the place I need to be to start having kids. I feel like I'm doing a good job managing my own mood troubles, but I'm aware they may arise again. So the next item on my agenda is to "out" myself, so to speak, to my parents, who don't know that I see a therapist or am on medication. I don't want my kid to feel like my occasional bad days are their fault, and I'm worried that's what will happen if it stays a secret. And I definitely don't want to be a mother that doesn't own her own problems, and instead allows them to burden her children.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you crave maternal affection. Your mom probably felt like she was far away even when she was right there.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I feel silly asking for affection. Does she really not like me? Do I annoy her? Does she think I'm crazy? Does she get disgusted by me? Does she think my desire for affection is sexual? How should I know? If I ask, she might lie to me. Everybody lies for all kinds of reasons. I just crave motherly affection. I wonder if this is what my bisexuality is all about? I really just want to be held by an older female. Nothing sexual about it. I want to be comforted. I want to be reassured that I will be okay. In my childhood, nothing was ever okay. Nothing I did was good enough.

... It's why I haven't had kids yet. I don't want to be my mother and I don't want my kid to become me.

Just wanted to let you know I really identify with what you've wrote here. I'm trying to figure this stuff out, too. You're not on your own. Thanks for posting.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

I am feeling the same way right now. I am almost right at the place I need to be to start having kids. I feel like I'm doing a good job managing my own mood troubles, but I'm aware they may arise again. So the next item on my agenda is to "out" myself, so to speak, to my parents, who don't know that I see a therapist or am on medication. I don't want my kid to feel like my occasional bad days are their fault, and I'm worried that's what will happen if it stays a secret. And I definitely don't want to be a mother that doesn't own her own problems, and instead allows them to burden her children.

It doesn't surprise me at all that you crave maternal affection. Your mom probably felt like she was far away even when she was right there.

That last statement is exactly it. I've also been told that I am that way.

I've already "outed" myself to my parents, but they don't know exactly why I'm in therapy. They know I have depression and anxiety and take meds for both.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

I really am a horrible person. Who would do that to their own mother? I'm becoming her; depressed and sad or anxious and angry. It's why I haven't had kids yet. I don't want to be my mother and I don't want my kid to become me.

I don't think you are horrible.

I'm really sorry you are feeling so low. I can see how upset you are about hitting your mother.

It's no joke being a teenager, even in a normal house.
It's no joke living with a parent who can't cope.
I think most people have defied their parents in one way or another at some point in their lives.

So: you shouldn't have hit your mother, but one incident doesn't make a monster.

I can understand your fear of "becoming your mother". I'd be scared too.
But here's the difference: you have sought help, you are being helped, and you will get better.

And one day you will be a great mother.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I don't think you are horrible.

I'm really sorry you are feeling so low. I can see how upset you are about hitting your mother.

It's no joke being a teenager, even in a normal house.
It's no joke living with a parent who can't cope.
I think most people have defied their parents in one way or another at some point in their lives.

So: you shouldn't have hit your mother, but one incident doesn't make a monster.

I can understand your fear of "becoming your mother". I'd be scared too.
But here's the difference: you have sought help, you are being helped, and you will get better.

And one day you will be a great mother.

Thank you CantExplain. Your words bring me to tears.

I'm starting to think it's a good thing I have two sessions this week. I am just not in a good frame of mind. Wednesday can't come soon enough.

[~EnlightenMe~]

I felt like I was in a decent frame of mind this week overall, but *client's mom* asked me if I was okay Thursday. Maybe I'm fooling myself.

It's perfectly okay and normal to not feel 100% all of the time. If client's mom asked you if you were okay but you thought you were in a decent frame of mind, client's mom may have seen something that wasn't there. She may have been projecting her not feeling okay onto you. OR she might be extra perceptive and wanted to help you

I reread what I wrote Thursday evening to T. Thinking back on the last few sessions, I remember that she's also physically pushed me out of her office twice recently. I feel silly asking for affection. Does she really not like me? Do I annoy her? Does she think I'm crazy? Does she get disgusted by me? Does she think my desire for affection is sexual? How should I know? If I ask, she might lie to me. Everybody lies for all kinds of reasons.

The only way to know is to ask your T. I suspect I know the answers, though. I hear you when you say you feel silly asking for affection. I don't know about you, but the feeling of shame usually accompanies that. It's difficult when we have unmet childhood needs that enter our adult life. I would hope that you will work on not feeling silly as you deserve affection!! Tell her that you really want the truth to your questions, not words to avoid discomfort.

I just crave motherly affection. I wonder if this is what my bisexuality is all about? I really just want to be held by an older female. Nothing sexual about it. I want to be comforted. I want to be reassured that I will be okay.

It is difficult to desperately want something that you never got. I'm glad you were able to say you want to be comforted and reassured that you will be okay. Many of us feel the same, at least I do.

In my childhood, nothing was ever okay. Nothing I did was good enough. Nothing I did to try to make Mom feel better worked. She was always depressed and sad or anxious and angry. Then when I was 15, I slapped her and called her a selfish b***h. I started screaming and ran into my room and shut the door and Dad literally broke the door down, picked me up, and threw me over his shoulder, carried me into the living room and put me down on the couch and said, "What in the hell is wrong with you? How dare you call your mother that name after all she's done for you. We don't know what to do with you anymore. If you don't calm the hell down, we'll take you to *local psychiatric hospital*."
They didn't take me. I stopped screaming, but cried and cried. Dad fixed my door, but it still has a hole in it 19 years later where he broke it down with his fist.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It sounds like nobody sat you down and explained to you that your mother's depression had NOTHING to do with you. You could not have fixed it no matter how hard you tried. BUT it was definitely good enough that you cared enough to try. Your father handled that very poorly. He was unable to see your pain and frustration and what he said to you, although I think he wasn't thinking straight, was a good way to make you feel shame as if you were to blame. Well, you weren't. Many 15 year olds have gone off on their mother/father or whomever. I wish you had gotten what you needed back then!!!!!

I really am a horrible person. Who would do that to their own mother? I'm becoming her; depressed and sad or anxious and angry. It's why I haven't had kids yet. I don't want to be my mother and I don't want my kid to become me.

If you saw this happen to another family with a 15 year old girl in it, what would you think about her? That she was a horrible person? You absolutely AREN'T! What would we do without you here?

As far as you becoming your mother, your kids becoming you -- well, you are aware of yourself. You are in therapy. Say that you did end up becoming depressed and agorophobic for a bit and you had a 15 year old daughter. I highly suspect you would sit her down beside you and tell her how much you love her and that although its not under your control, that it definitely is not her fault nor responsibility. To me, communication can make a horrific problem into just a problem.

Take care and keep us posted!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

It's perfectly okay and normal to not feel 100% all of the time. If client's mom asked you if you were okay but you thought you were in a decent frame of mind, client's mom may have seen something that wasn't there. She may have been projecting her not feeling okay onto you. OR she might be extra perceptive and wanted to help you

The client's mom is having a hard time dealing with placing her son within our group home. A lot of emotion goes along with that and we were meeting about her son's progress. So it could be any of the above. I was very quiet in the meeting.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

The only way to know is to ask your T. I suspect I know the answers, though. I hear you when you say you feel silly asking for affection. I don't know about you, but the feeling of shame usually accompanies that. It's difficult when we have unmet childhood needs that enter our adult life. I would hope that you will work on not feeling silly as you deserve affection!! Tell her that you really want the truth to your questions, not words to avoid discomfort.

I know she probably doesn't think those things of me, but I really do feel shameful asking for affection. It's not her job to give that to me, but she has chosen to hug me. Then things changed a bit related to circumstances without an explanation, so it brings up feelings of shame and low self-worth, same as when things changed within my family without explanation.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

It is difficult to desperately want something that you never got. I'm glad you were able to say you want to be comforted and reassured that you will be okay. Many of us feel the same, at least I do.

My T told me last session I'd be okay, but that "reassurance" never holds. I even asked my boss for reassurance today, but he recognizes I am not in a good frame of mind.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I'm so sorry this happened to you. It sounds like nobody sat you down and explained to you that your mother's depression had NOTHING to do with you. You could not have fixed it no matter how hard you tried. BUT it was definitely good enough that you cared enough to try. Your father handled that very poorly. He was unable to see your pain and frustration and what he said to you, although I think he wasn't thinking straight, was a good way to make you feel shame as if you were to blame. Well, you weren't. Many 15 year olds have gone off on their mother/father or whomever. I wish you had gotten what you needed back then!!!!!

My mother was in denial about her condition. Still is to this day. That's why nobody "explained anything to me". There was nothing to explain. My parents were not affectionate to me after I hit school age. I think they thought I was too old and didn't need it.

Originally Posted by Antimatter

If you saw this happen to another family with a 15 year old girl in it, what would you think about her? That she was a horrible person? You absolutely AREN'T! What would we do without you here?

I think my gut reaction would be "why did she do that?". If I knew the situation, I'd definitely understand. Most of the time, people act out for a reason, not simply for the sole purpose of hurting someone else.

As far as you becoming your mother, your kids becoming you -- well, you are aware of yourself. You are in therapy. Say that you did end up becoming depressed and agorophobic for a bit and you had a 15 year old daughter. I highly suspect you would sit her down beside you and tell her how much you love her and that although its not under your control, that it definitely is not her fault nor responsibility. To me, communication can make a horrific problem into just a problem.

Take care and keep us posted![/QUOTE]

I hope that I would do what you describe and not try to hide things to "protect" my children. I think it is a serious disservice to the child.

Thank you for your thoughtful answer, Antimatter! It gives me food for thought and my first session this week is tomorrow.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

My mother was in denial about her condition. Still is to this day. That's why nobody "explained anything to me". There was nothing to explain. My parents were not affectionate to me after I hit school age. I think they thought I was too old and didn't need it.

I can so relate to this.

[Sannah]

Sounds like you are really triggered Chopin.