[stopdog]

I experience therapy as adversarial.
"Therapy is an inherently adversarial process, not an alliance to buffer innocent victims against a world that isn't gentle enough."
Frank Pittman - a psychotherapist who wrote an article called "Buyer's Guide to Therapy" seems to think it is. He does seem like a jerk but at least he is honest about it.
It is perhaps pertinent to note, most of my close relationships have started out as adversarial and then ended up not. Perhaps I cannot ally until I have had the battle to figure out where everyone stands.
But seriously = do you all not find it adversarial at all?

I have never considered my therapy experiences adversarial at all. Now, my T's certainly don't baby me or "buffer" me "against the world", but I just find that to be straight-forward honesty. I don't want to be treated as fragile or breakable, but that can be done without the relationship becoming adversarial.

[WikidPissah]

Do you have a link to that article? I have always seen my T as an ally. That doesn't mean I have always trusted him, I just have never thought of him as being against me.

[granite1]

some days i do but that is because i didn't like what she was saying at all.

[Perna]

I was certainly adversarial in stance originally, the first 92 years, to maintain distance like I'd had to do with my stepmother. Over time though I found that a working relationship (like my father and myself doing algebra word problems together :-) felt a lot more comfortable and took less energy and provided more of what I wanted. Retooled the plant and now I'm a Volt!

I think there have been times where I felt that way. That is a good question and one I need to really think about.

[stopdog]

This is the link - I hope it works. Otherwise you can search Frank Pittman and Buyers guide to therapy or adversarial and it comes up.
Try this:
www.solutioninmind.org - go to links page and click on buyer's guide to therapy.

Like I said, it sounds like he is a total jerk, and I can only imagine I would not have stayed there 5 minutes with him, but just as another idea from the alliance thing and at least he admits it.
I seriously think I may simply have to have adversarial to be able to accept alliance. I find that somewhat comforting (like I am not a complete failure - just going through my way of getting to alliance).

[tooski]

There's a certain kind of emotional intimacy in the therapeutic relationship. I think it depends on whether one is craving that kind of intimacy and slips into it easily, or is afraid of it, doesn't trust it and therefore fights it. In my case, I was dragged kicking and screaming into it by a very smart T. So ... yeah, it was a bit adversarial at first, but I wasn't really conscious of it. I didn't KNOW I had this giant fear of intimacy.

[pbutton]

Yes, I experience it that way. This is due in part to the fact that I fight attachment, due to my fear of intimacy. It's coming from me, not from the therapy process.

I had no idea I had a fear of intimacy until after I started therapy.

When I'm in my "fight vs flight" mode of dealing with attachment...I turn the relationship in my head into something adversarial. That is all on me as PButton said...

[mcl6136]

i have an appropriate fear of intimacy with jerks. Several of my therapists have been jerks, and I have feared being connected to them, rightly so. for that reason, and probably several others, I have had adversarial relationships with some therapists some of the time.

When someone wins my trust (it is not available all the time for all people) then amazing things can happen.

I like to quote Carl Jung.....

The combination of two people is like the mixing of chemical substances. If there is any reaction at all, both are transformed.

I'm not very interested, at this late date, in dealing with people like the guy who wrote the Buyers Guide and said:

The most important work of psychotherapy takes place inside the therapist's head as he or she thinks through the patient's snag points in dealing with this latest bump along the road of life.

Huh?

It takes all kinds, I guess, but why would anyone want that kind of therapist?

stopdog, with at least three therapists that I saw briefly, I DID experience therapy as adversarial. However, because I had a good experience with the very first therapist I saw, I knew that kind of relationship was not inevitable and not what I was looking for. So, I kept looking.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

The most important work of psychotherapy takes place inside the therapist's head as he or she thinks through the patient's snag points in dealing with this latest bump along the road of life.

It takes all kinds, I guess, but why would anyone want that kind of therapist?

I was certainly snagged and was unsuccessful in getting myself unsnagged (or would not have been in therapy in the first place) so I'm glad my T thought about my situation and where/how she saw I might be snagged so she could help guide me toward unsnagging myself.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Perna

I was certainly snagged and was unsuccessful in getting myself unsnagged (or would not have been in therapy in the first place) so I'm glad my T thought about my situation and where/how she saw I might be snagged so she could help guide me toward unsnagging myself.

I was snagged too. However I did not think that the most important work was happening inside my T.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

iI'm not very interested, at this late date, in dealing with people like the guy who wrote the Buyers Guide and said:

The most important work of psychotherapy takes place inside the therapist's head as he or she thinks through the patient's snag points in dealing with this latest bump along the road of life.

Huh?

It takes all kinds, I guess, but why would anyone want that kind of therapist?

I agree - I would not want to deal with him either. It just gets rid of the myth that adversary ONLY comes from the client.

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

The most important work of psychotherapy takes place inside the therapist's head as he or she thinks through the patient's snag points in dealing with this latest bump along the road of life.

I need help finding my snags; that's why I go to therapy. I don't always see the points at which I depart from reality into my own warped perception. Pointing out the places where I go off track is probably the most important thing that T does in our time together.

[dismantle.repair]

Yes, I do have an adversarial relationship with my T.
There are times when I need to be antagonised in order to stick up for myself, it seems.
I also don't like to get attached to anyone.

[unaluna]

I was NOT willing to admit T was right and I was wrong. I had been given so much incredibly bad advice by my family, so inappropriate to ME, so blind to who I actually was, that the FIRST thing I needed from T, was for T to validate that. T taking an adversarial stance in the beginning would not have worked for me. Of course, that raises the question, then why go to T if you're just looking for someone to agree with you? You obviously are going because you admit something is wrong, you must be doing something wrong; why not just let them tell you what it is? Because they don't know what happened to me, so how can they advise? Heck, I barely understand what happened to me and what it meant, what the repercussions were for my development, what I missed, what went wrong, what went right. I guess I DO do my therapy like I did my computer work - dig until I find all contributing factors. No "striking from the record" allowed. You can't fool a computer.

[tooski]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

i have an appropriate fear of intimacy with jerks.

Ha - I love this!! I'm so glad my T isn't a jerk, but looking back I probably would have had emotional intimacy with Attila the Hun to get the revelation I did. It was through experiencing intimacy with T and all of the accompanying terror, misery, anger, etc that I discovered WHY I was afraid of it. Turns out my fear was logical and fully justified, and nothing to be ashamed of. The intimacy with T was a means to an end. My goal was to be able to have relationships in RL instead of running away from them.

And stopdog, if your relationship is adversarial there is probably a good reason for it. Just keep going. I hope the light bulbs will start lighting up soon.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I experience therapy as adversarial....
But seriously = do you all not find it adversarial at all?

No. I do not experience therapy as adversarial. I would not be able to work with a T that I had an adversarial relationship with. I need someone that is patient with me, that I can feel comfortable with, and that will gently challenge me. At the same time, I don't want a T that will buffer me from the world or baby me. I want simple honesty and respect.

I think, for me, I desperately want to feel a connection with someone, but I'm afraid to. If my T were strongly adversarial (not talking about gently challenging my beliefs and thoughts) then it would be very frightening for me and I wouldn't be able to build a connection. I need to be able to respect and feel respected to work with someone.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I experience therapy as adversarial.

I certainly did for many years. I think that says more about me than about the process.

P.S.

My T seems to think that the adversarial stage was valuable, perhaps even necessary. The deepest, most lasting relationships often start off adversarial, she thinks. This is a common plot device in novels.

Originally Posted by stopdog

It is perhaps pertinent to note, most of my close relationships have started out as adversarial and then ended up not. Perhaps I cannot ally until I have had the battle to figure out where everyone stands.

Good insight. This is true about me, too, especially in my relationship with men.

My wife used to say I was a "prickly porcupine". That would have made a good user ID!

P.S.

Me: Am I still a prickly porcupine?
Wife: Not any more.
Me: (Relieved) When did I stop being a prickly porcupine?
Wife: About a year ago.
Me: (Horrified) As recently as that?
Wife: It's a slow process.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by mcl6136

The most important work of psychotherapy takes place inside the therapist's head as he or she thinks through the patient's snag points in dealing with this latest bump along the road of life.

I would say very little of the work take place inside the therapist.

Not at all. My T and i are a team,& fighting on the same side.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I would say very little of the work take place inside the therapist.

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx.
For some reason I thought of this. Inside of a T seems a terrible place.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho MarxFor some reason I thought of this. Inside of a T seems a terrible place.

**** Cavett has an opinion / book review in the nytimes this past weekend of two new and/or revised bios of the great Groucho.