[Thimble]

What do you think about "using" a therapist? Instead of creating a connection with them, having personal feelings - just "using" them in a business-like relationship to gain whatever knowledge and insight they have. Ignoring when *they* hurt you. Not caring whether what *you* say upsets them, bores them. Not caring whether they judge you. Just saying whatever you want, discussing whatever you want. Just plowing through to get whatever available answers there are to the questions you have - and putting all personal feelings aside, and not worrying about theirs. Pursuing your own goals regardless of the therapist's goals (for you). Is that immoral?

My therapist doesn't have goals for me. I didn't feel I have to worry about. She has never judged me. She tells me I may use her in anyway I need too. I say whatever I want. She doesn't get bored, boredom is about the person themselves not the person their with. Have you heard of the term "codependency"?

[unaluna]

I think that's pretty much the idea - therapist as working partner. They don't know anything about you when you come in - how can they set your goals for you? Assuming you're being reasonable and your goal is within the law - what would be immoral?

[Perna]

Therapy is about you, is your therapy. But you cannot get "answers" without interaction because that is where the difficulties lie, in interactions with others. If you did not need to learn to navigate the interpersonal, you probably would not have problems in the first place, for which you sought out a therapist; instead, you could read a book and learn what you need to know.

[Emptty]

It might help if my therapist set goals for me... he lets me follow my own agenda and I don't think I would know if he were bored or not... I've said some pretty mean things to him and he hasn't really expressed any feelings. If you get a good therapist its all about you and for the first few months you talk all about you and then go after accomplishing what you want to accomplish. The therapist is there to encourage you to do what you think is best it has nothing to do with the therapists beliefs/opinions- they're totally accepting and unbiased

I've read in many articles and seen many opinions that support the theory that a big part of the healing and effectiveness of therapy is through the relationship - that it is key. (Except perhaps in short term therapies like CBT.) Regardless, I don't see how it is healthy to enter into a relationship with the idea of 'using' someone. Immoral? Perhaps not.. you pay for your time, they impart knowledge.. but I wouldn't think you'd get very much of of that arrangement. Answers in therapy aren't always cut and dried, black and white - if this were so perhaps you could get what you needed from a book and cut out the therapist altogether? In my experience what happens in the therapy room involves emotion, the subconscious, communication (verbal and otherwise), attachment, and a lot of people would say transference of some kind.

I think it would be far healthier to enter therapy with an open mind and an open heart. In my experience, part of the beauty of the therapeutic relationship is that I feel I can trust my therapist, and I don't feel like I'm judged by her. I say whatever is on my mind. We get along. It's nice. She keeps me strong even when the work is difficult.

Just my thoughts..

I think that that approach probably works for a lot of people. Do you think that its something that would be helpful for you?

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Thimble

What do you think about "using" a therapist? Instead of creating a connection with them, having personal feelings - just "using" them in a business-like relationship to gain whatever knowledge and insight they have. Ignoring when *they* hurt you. Not caring whether what *you* say upsets them, bores them. Not caring whether they judge you. Just saying whatever you want, discussing whatever you want. Just plowing through to get whatever available answers there are to the questions you have - and putting all personal feelings aside, and not worrying about theirs. Pursuing your own goals regardless of the therapist's goals (for you). Is that immoral?

Well, I certainly don't think it is immoral. In fact, I think it is nice work if you can do it.

I've found, however, that sooner or later, the realization comes that there is another person in that room.

That's when things get infinitely worse, and yet infinitely better at the same time.

I honestly don't worry about my T's comfort level. I've never felt hurt by him. We don't discuss goals though I'm certain he has them for my therapy and they for the most part match with mine. If I disagree with something he says, I tell him and we definitely have a couple things we have agreed to disagree about. We do have a healthy connection though. We like and respect each other as people. But I don't like the term "using" him. Such a negative term to me that feels manipulative and devoid of respect (that's MY response to the term and I realize it will feel different to other people) . But I see my T to work through my issues with great respect for his insights, his honesty, and his skills.

Is your idea immoral? No, I wouldn't think so. Not quite how I approach therapy, but if that is what you think you need and it actually works for you then I would guess it is fine. The question would be does that really work for you.

[PreacherHeckler]

I don't really think of it as using the therapist to meet my goals. Instead, I use the relationship we have as a vehicle to help me reach my destination.

[rainbow_rose]

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

Instead, I use the relationship we have as a vehicle to help me reach my destination.

this is what I wanted to say, but PreacherHeckler said it SO much better.

[Thimble]

Thanks for your feedback - I value your opinions. The problem is I fail at relationships with people, especially in therapy. I need answers to questions about the past, present and future - to determine what is real and ensure I am not missing/distorting anything. But I can't get those answers because the "relationship" thing keeps getting in my way - I fail at that so can never get to discussions for the answers I need. I have tried to find my answers by reading as suggested, rather than with a therapist - and while helpful, I still am missing out on the feedback to ensure I am not missing something particular to my specific case, versus examples I read about. I cannot continue without my answers - I am at the point where I need those to move on and cannot continue in this same place as I have for too many years - so I thought maybe I could circumvent all my people issues (ego, needy little child inside, etc.) and try to ignore all personal aspects and disconnect so I could get my answers. It is hard to do - I have been trying - ignoring the things that hurt me that make me quit therapy (therapist side) - and ignoring the shame and humiliation of my ego that make me quit therapy (my side). I do feel deceitful though...and like I am "using" the therapist. I think the therapist is really committed to helping me...so like the therapist is "invested" on some kind of personal level but I'm not, so I'm betraying them. But if it is the only way I can get the answers I need now, I don't know how else to do it... Anyway, your comments have helped a lot. Thanks!

[stopdog]

A client does not owe the therapist anything more than the fee. Anything else is the client's. It is not betraying them or immoral. It is a business relationship. The therapist has the duty and obligation to take care of themselves. The client has the responsibility of deciding if it is helping the client or not.

[rainbow_rose]

I see the therapeutic relationship as an avenue towards learning how to have a healthy relationship. For me, the relationship IS the work.

But as I see it - it is your therapy - do what works for you to get what you want out of the process.

[eclogite]

I think that's fine. One thing I really like about the relationship is that I can fool myself into thinking it's a friendship on the days when I need to use that to open up, but other days I don't need to be considerate of her feelings. She's a professional, and it's in her job description to serve my needs, whatever they are at that moment.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Thimble

Thanks for your feedback - I value your opinions. The problem is I fail at relationships with people, especially in therapy. I need answers to questions about the past, present and future - to determine what is real and ensure I am not missing/distorting anything. But I can't get those answers because the "relationship" thing keeps getting in my way - I fail at that so can never get to discussions for the answers I need. I have tried to find my answers by reading as suggested, rather than with a therapist - and while helpful, I still am missing out on the feedback to ensure I am not missing something particular to my specific case, versus examples I read about. I cannot continue without my answers - I am at the point where I need those to move on and cannot continue in this same place as I have for too many years - so I thought maybe I could circumvent all my people issues (ego, needy little child inside, etc.) and try to ignore all personal aspects and disconnect so I could get my answers. It is hard to do - I have been trying - ignoring the things that hurt me that make me quit therapy (therapist side) - and ignoring the shame and humiliation of my ego that make me quit therapy (my side). I do feel deceitful though...and like I am "using" the therapist. I think the therapist is really committed to helping me...so like the therapist is "invested" on some kind of personal level but I'm not, so I'm betraying them. But if it is the only way I can get the answers I need now, I don't know how else to do it... Anyway, your comments have helped a lot. Thanks!

If it's hard to ignore the personal aspects, then they're still there. In a way, it's clear that you are (perhaps unwillingly) invested in the relationship. You're just ignoring that investment right now to focus on something else. To continue the investment metaphor, it's sort of like you've put your emotional "funds" in a blind trust for the time being. You can come back to them if you like.

In fact, if this strategy allows you to stick with therapy long enough to truly come to believe that your therapist is trustworthy and committed to helping you, you may very well at some point start to feel comfortable making small "withdrawals" of disclosure about the relationship with your T in the here and now. And if you have that basis of trust it may well not have the same results you've experienced in the past. Best of luck.

[Gently1]

I think more of using therapy rather than using the/a therapist.

[Mike_J]

Originally Posted by Thimble

What do you think about "using" a therapist? Instead of creating a connection with them, having personal feelings - just "using" them in a business-like relationship to gain whatever knowledge and insight they have. Ignoring when *they* hurt you. Not caring whether what *you* say upsets them, bores them. Not caring whether they judge you. Just saying whatever you want, discussing whatever you want. Just plowing through to get whatever available answers there are to the questions you have - and putting all personal feelings aside, and not worrying about theirs. Pursuing your own goals regardless of the therapist's goals (for you). Is that immoral?

Immoral NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST, in fact it sounds like it would be a great way to go through therapy, I just don't see it as being realistic, you are not a robot, the thought that you could bear your soul to someone without feeling something for that person seems so odd, not bad, just something I can't quite get my mind around.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Thimble

Ignoring when *they* hurt you.

Just plowing through to get whatever available answers there are to the questions you have - and putting all personal feelings aside

Originally Posted by Thimble

The problem is I fail at relationships with people, especially in therapy.

the "relationship" thing keeps getting in my way

so I thought maybe I could circumvent all my people issues (ego, needy little child inside, etc.) and try to ignore all personal aspects and disconnect so I could get my answers.

I have been trying - ignoring the things that hurt me that make me quit therapy (therapist side) - and ignoring the shame and humiliation of my ego that make me quit therapy (my side).

These things above that you mention are good things to work on in therapy. Being in a relationship and telling someone when they hurt your feelings is a very good skill to acquire.

Healing isn't just about getting answers. Healing is about acquiring skills too, skills that are acquired in a healthy relationship. (You know, those things that we missed out on while growing up). Allowing that inner child to grow up and develop in therapy would be an excellent use of your therapy time.

[likewater]

In my therapy, I ALWAYS set the goals. I'm paying and i KNOW what i want. I dont always get it . . . Because i want a lot i guess. But someday. .