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  #26  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Snuffleupagus Snuffleupagus is offline
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Originally Posted by SpiritRunner View Post
I think some of the issue lies in that certain ones in my life do have a disagreement with some of values, particularly my spiritual values - that my values are seen to be compromised, or too worldly, and not worthy of respect, because they aren't believed to be right. My change in convictions, my convictions, are not agreed with, not respected .... I don't expect agreement, or want others to compromise themselves to agree with me, but it is possible to acknowledge that differing values are worthy of respect, or that people with differing values are worthy of respect.
The part I bolded (or attempted to from my phone) IS a core value. My experience in the religion I was brought up in was that this value was seen as menacing and dangerous--that my human nature was so predisposed to sin that any dilution any deviation from exactly what was taught was bound to result in the pollution of my soul.

My church seemed to have an incredible fear of the worldly, the secular, (which I now think of as simply human) such that we had to culturally insulate ourselves to keep from being poisoned by seductive ideas to stay pure --to not be unequally yoked. To allow respect for these ideas is the beginning of the seduction, so they must be demeaned for our own safety. The cognitive distortions of psychology were in many ways the basis of the doctrine I grew up with. Try letting go of a distortion when some deep part of yourself still believes doing so will land you in hell. This was my experience, FWIW. I don't know much about your church or if you can relate to any of these feelings.
Thanks for this!
SpiritRunner

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  #27  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 10:13 AM
ListenMoreTalkLess ListenMoreTalkLess is offline
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SpiritRunner, I think that these are very deep thoughts about the nature of marriage/intimate relationships.

It seems to me that all intimate relationships have boundaries and respect for boundaries, even if that is not articulated. I have a friend who doesn't like her husband to eat off her plate when they go out, I'm happy to let my wife steal my food. I must have my own toothpaste-- silly in a way, as I will kiss her as often as she pleases-- but I don't want her to use my toothpaste. It's my boundary. She doesn't want me to share the bathroom while she's in there, while I know plenty of couples who will engage in all kinds of hygiene business in front of each other. I also don't share my email password and I don't let my kids use my computer. There are all sorts of "mine" in all relationships and all of these are boundaries in one way or the other.

When someone asserts a boundary ("this is mine" or "this is private"), it is a matter of respect and even perhaps decency to agree to that. Or disagree, and discuss a resolution. But I don't think it's an answer to just say "no we share everything." That is definitely entitlement and one partner/spouse doesn't get to do that at the expense of the other. This kind of intrusiveness actually kills the intimacy and connection in a relationship, IMO and IME.
Thanks for this!
SpiritRunner, whatbeanbelieved
  #28  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 11:18 AM
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SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus View Post
The part I bolded (or attempted to from my phone) IS a core value. My experience in the religion I was brought up in was that this value was seen as menacing and dangerous--that my human nature was so predisposed to sin that any dilution any deviation from exactly what was taught was bound to result in the pollution of my soul.

My church seemed to have an incredible fear of the worldly, the secular, (which I now think of as simply human) such that we had to culturally insulate ourselves to keep from being poisoned by seductive ideas to stay pure --to not be unequally yoked. To allow respect for these ideas is the beginning of the seduction, so they must be demeaned for our own safety. The cognitive distortions of psychology were in many ways the basis of the doctrine I grew up with. Try letting go of a distortion when some deep part of yourself still believes doing so will land you in hell. This was my experience, FWIW. I don't know much about your church or if you can relate to any of these feelings.
The parts I bolded are parts I have felt/experienced, much more so recently .... or I should say, I acknowledged and accepted that I felt thus and that it was not a sin or wrong or lack of faith that I had them, that actually I could have my own thoughts/convictions on certain things and still be right spiritually, have faith God would recognize. For me, there was always an incongruity between certain things (outward things) that were taught/expected and what I actually felt/thought for myself deep within - this was what T1 told me, that she saw this incongruity and that it was part of what was tearing me apart within, something that kept me from being authentic or feeling safe to be authentic, because there was that conflict. The part I bolded in red, yes, very much yes. I thought deep down I must be very spiritually wrong/defective/condemned if I questioned or had a hard time fitting into certain expectations ....
I say nothing against my church. My people are really very lovely sincere people and I love and respect them, and the standard is not wrong (or even unscriptural) so much as it is strict and sort of takes away liberty where there really could justifiably, scripturally, be room for liberty ..... there is a tendency on certain things to be sort of legalistic, I guess. Sometimes an emphasis on outward things, such as choice of dress, cutting hair, painting fingernails, considered to be showing that there is not submission, faith is weak etc .....
What is important, truly important, however, to me, is truth in the inward parts .... living authentically and honestly.
Nothing wrong with conservatism, but the definition of sin and what is considered to be of the wrong spirit is somewhat narrow ...
But I am not conservative. Nor is H conservative in some things either though in others he is more definite, certain, certain that there is but one interpretation and not room for individual conviction .... On big essential principles, I have not gone radically different, but there is a growing difference in certain convictions/values/doctrinal thoughts, even, that divides us .... and makes him feel less respect for me along that line.
So be it.
  #29  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 11:29 AM
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SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ListenMoreTalkLess View Post
SpiritRunner, I think that these are very deep thoughts about the nature of marriage/intimate relationships.

It seems to me that all intimate relationships have boundaries and respect for boundaries, even if that is not articulated. I have a friend who doesn't like her husband to eat off her plate when they go out, I'm happy to let my wife steal my food. I must have my own toothpaste-- silly in a way, as I will kiss her as often as she pleases-- but I don't want her to use my toothpaste. It's my boundary. She doesn't want me to share the bathroom while she's in there, while I know plenty of couples who will engage in all kinds of hygiene business in front of each other. I also don't share my email password and I don't let my kids use my computer. There are all sorts of "mine" in all relationships and all of these are boundaries in one way or the other.

When someone asserts a boundary ("this is mine" or "this is private"), it is a matter of respect and even perhaps decency to agree to that. Or disagree, and discuss a resolution. But I don't think it's an answer to just say "no we share everything." That is definitely entitlement and one partner/spouse doesn't get to do that at the expense of the other. This kind of intrusiveness actually kills the intimacy and connection in a relationship, IMO and IME.
The bolded part I most definitely have experienced. It does. Having your boundaries disrespected and violated makes you feel unsafe, like withdrawing, guarding yourself, sharing/giving less of yourself .... it removes the security of knowing you are respected as yourself and acknowledged as having the right to be yourself and be separate, have your own individualness/identity, which are things I think are needed in order to feel safe in the connection, intimacy, togetherness/oneness that marriage also needs to have ....
  #30  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 08:27 PM
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SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
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dang. somehow this thread, while it has been good to work through things, has been exhausting for me - ha, I feel like I was in therapy today. I am wiped out to the max. for a lot of other reasons too ... just a hot, humid day and I was busy and the kids were ornery ....
but I really didn't want to end up discussing me; I really wanted people's thoughts about the respect question. well, I guess I did get some of that, so I don't need to be whining! sheesh, shut up, SR.
anyway, I didn't mean for my thread to turn into me doing all these long monologues or novels on my life or whatever. I feel a bit disappointed/displeased I did that ....
but thanks for all the support, posted and unposted alike (since I know some probably didn't post because my big, deep issues seem to be hot button, triggering type topics).
  #31  
Old Jun 16, 2012, 08:30 PM
Anonymous43209
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we are sorry we werent able to follow it all but we still care♥♥♥
Thanks for this!
SpiritRunner
  #32  
Old Jun 17, 2012, 03:13 PM
minneymouse minneymouse is offline
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SpiritRunner, I'm so sorry about my post- I sincerely regret it. I don't know what got into me that day. stopdog is quite right that it is my problem and not yours and it's not for me to judge your relationship. I also should have taken into account what you had previously posted about your posts not being private, and repsected that this thraed was not about your relationship per se. I've asked to have my post deleted, but wanted also to apologise here.
  #33  
Old Jun 17, 2012, 04:28 PM
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SpiritRunner SpiritRunner is offline
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Originally Posted by minneymouse View Post
SpiritRunner, I'm so sorry about my post- I sincerely regret it. I don't know what got into me that day. stopdog is quite right that it is my problem and not yours and it's not for me to judge your relationship. I also should have taken into account what you had previously posted about your posts not being private, and repsected that this thraed was not about your relationship per se. I've asked to have my post deleted, but wanted also to apologise here.
oh, that really wasn't necessary, the deleting or the apology (though it is accepted), as you did/said nothing wrong or inappropriate ....
I am responsible for the diversion of my thread into exploring my relationship/other issues tangent to that ... that is what I was frustrated about and not happy about, that I derailed my own intentions for my thread! And my tendency to get all verbose .... I was disgusted with myself really. And exhausted by all the thinking and the accompanying emotions .... it took too much time to fashion some of those posts and that bugged me too.
Neither you nor anyone else need feel sorry for any posts made in regards to my relationship issues. All input was valued, really.
I don't feel you judged my relationship, my H, or me ... you stated your thoughts respectfully and I really really appreciated the nice things you said about me in it too. That meant a lot to me, and I thank you for those kind words.
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