Starting To See

Hi everyone....I wrote awhile back about my relationship with my T, for those who don't know her and I are dr./friends...I did alot of thinking about the responses I got here and also about something I will share in a minute...I am starting to see how the relationship is imbalanced...

I cannot call her at home, I have told her that I would never call her at home as a client but I still have to either leave her a message on her work cell, send her an email or go through her sister if I want to talk to her as a friend...This bothers me ALOT so I wrote her an email saying that I think we should go back to

being dr/client and she responded with "I think we should keep our Dr/Friend relationship intact it is beneficial and healthy"...Now I have been thinking does she really consider me a friend or is she keeping it dr./client in her mind and telling me we are friends...

I have Borderline Personality Disorder and until now I could not imagine her not being in my life but lately this not being able to call her as a friend is really getting to me...Cavi

i don't think this relationship can be good for you. therapy needs boundaries for a reason and this relationships boundaries are blurred and confusing. you can't be "friend" and not be able to call her at home but you can't be "patient" and have her share her life with you. this is why all over the world therapists are NOT friends with their patients. that she can just ignore all those professional ethics is a really bad sign to me.

You are right, as much as I hate to admit it...Thanks for responding....Cavi

no problem. i can only imagine how hard this is for you. i know i wouldn't be able to do the healthy thing in your situation. i would get all kinds of enmeshed with my t if he wanted to be friends. but that is why they are supposed to be the ones enforcing the boundary. because we are vulnerable, particularly in relationships, particularly with bpd!!

Hi,
I don't know the whole story, having not read your other post.
However, this relationship's boundaries seem very blurred to me, confusing and surely not healthy for any client, especially one with BPD. Clients with this diagnosis especially need boundaries in therapy. You were right to say you wanted the relationship to be therapist and clients, and it's a bad sign to me that she can't accept it.
Maybe it's time to at least consider finding a new t, and then just being friends with this person, since you were friends anyway? Or just not having a relationship with them, or something. But at the very least not having this person as your therapist might be something to think about.
Sorry you're going through this. I remember discovering that there were unethical things going on in a therapy relationship I was in a few years back where at the time I felt so close to the therapist. The feelings I had upon discovering this were very strong and hard to deal with. You'll find a lot of support here on the forum.

(((Cavi))) this unfortunatly is a prime example of why a T and a client can't be friends. It gets complicated. I would seek out another therapist (I know it's not easy).

Keep us posted.

Hey,
I agree with everything that has been posted in the replies, as I think you do also, about the boundaries being blurred and how it can't be healthy. It sounds like you are actually more level headed on the issue than your T is.

Can I ask, as "friends" what do you do? What I mean is, what is it that makes you friends? Where you friends prior to being T/client? How did it come about?

You dont have to answer if you don't fee comfortable but maybe thinking about these things will help you decide who the relationship is benefitting.

I am really impressed with your insight.. pretty dang mature.

What you're describing here is at the root of the problem with trying to be 'friends' with a therapist. A friendship is reciprocal, worked out between the two people to meet each others' needs. That's hard to do when the relationship has its origins in the context of therapy. Therapists traditionally restrict a client's access. Clients are generally encouraged to think of the relationship as being one-way, all about them (the client). The therapist's needs are not supposed to enter the equation. This dynamic is crucial to therapy being effective, and it works very, very well. I remember being in crisis one time. It was because of a therapeutic rupture. My therapist found out, I'd written her a harsh, accusatory email. She called me and moved heaven and earth to get me in to see her ASAP. I texted her, expressing misgivings about inconveniencing her, I didn't want to accept the time she offered. She responded "I'll take care of me. You just be there." That was such a powerful statement! And think about it.. as my therapist, it was her job to make sure that I did not concern myself with her needs. She was supposed to be acutely focused on my needs, but I wasn't allowed to even consider hers - other than being on time and compensating her. A friendship would not survive long if it was imbalanced like that - but a therapy relationship depends on the imbalance.

It surprises me that your therapist doesn't seem to 'get it.' She's referring to it as a 'friendship,' but it's not. And I think that her attempt to make it seem like it is could ultimately be very painful to you and harmful to your therapeutic progress.

Your therapist's first priority should be to protect the therapeutic relationship.

Cavi,
I'm sorry you're going through this. I also have BPD and am very attached to my T of 2 years. I KNOW intellectually that it is unethical for Ts and clients to be friends, but just at my last session I asked my T why not, because part of me wishes very much that we could be friends.

She said that we wouldn't have met if I hadn't come for therapy. She said she never does therapy with her friends. It just wouldn't work. I know that's true for the reasons others have posted. I'm glad you're starting to see it too.

I don't know why your T is telling you that it's possible. She's not helping you by encouraging this friendship, and is being unethical too. Usually it's the T who keeps this boundary and the client who wants to cross it, not the other way around. I'm sorry but I have to agree that you may need to find another T. I'm also wondering what is this friendship like?

I am sorry you are going through this. I think you will need to find another T, and I wish she would own up to her ethics violation and recommend that. I try to protect myself from this by not knowing anything about my T. I have never asked a personal question and if a thought enters my mind I try to remember that it truly does not have anything to do with MY therapy. She has great boundaries and does not bring up her issues. I have very rigid boundaries and do not ask. At times I do wonder if she truly can relate, but then think " my gyn is a man and he has never had cramps so.....". Not quiet the same but the point being the training is there. I also know that we would have absolutely NOTHING in common outside of the therapy room. Good luck to you.

Thanks for the replies...I will answer a little bit later today...Thanks Cavi

I am unclear if you cannot call her at home when you want to talk to her as a friend because of your own reticence/rules about calling her at home as a client or if this setup is on her part as well.

What does being "friends" mean in this relationship; do you hang out with her, go to the Mall together, out to eat, etc.?

Hi Everyone...I met her as a therapist...I was going through a bad time, I had just quit a T that was very controlling...But that is another story....As far as what we do as friends, when she came here she helped me put a glued puzzle into its frame...I live at a apt. complex and there is a gym here, one day she came over and we worked out at the gym...STuff like that...We are suppose to get together and take the dogs to the beach...
We have parties at her office sometimes too...I am looking for another T that takes my ins. but so far no-one wants to touch the case because of the nature of it...Another thing that is bothering me is my session starts out with her telling me her feelings and stuff that is going on with her...Usually the session is just chit chat and if I am having a bad day we discuss how it affects her...I went through transference with her when I first started and I am not so sure it is over...It is one BIG mess...Thanks for responding.....Cavi

Perna...It is because in the beginning I was a client only and of course we cannot call our T's at home but even now that we have become friends that rule still stands...Cavi

oh god. this sounds really terrible. it's like you're paying her to be her therapist!! she is deeply unethical. i hope you cut ties with this woman soon. she is damaging you!

I can't see any way that continuing therapy with this woman will do anything but harm you. No therapist should ever open a session with their feelings and what's going on in their own lives. Your bad day should be discussed only because of how it affects YOU, not her.

This is one very unethical therapist. Get away as fast as you can.

I wonder if you feel she is maybe using you to meet her own needs? Instead of putting you first, as a therapist is meant to do.

Yes I do very much so...There has been times I thought of walking away but with having BPD my abandonment issues kick in and I panic that is why I want to find a T that I can talk to but I say BPD and unethical T and so far no-one will take my case...Cavi

Well you need to get what you need, but IMO you are shooting yourself in the foot by declaring to potential T's that you have BPD and an unethical T. And at this point I would question the BPD dx cos you're being pretty darn obedient or compliant or something. And "unethical" makes it sound like a sexual r/s, not mutual dog-walking. You could ask a prospective T for a consult, like for help for a referral to another T once they hear your story.

You don't need to take care of this T. She has her sister to look after her if she needs help. She does kinda sound like she's losing it. Maybe you should talk to her sister if you have concerns for her personal safety if you leave her. But I hope the sisters are not coercing you into a financially abusive situation.

That's true - maybe find a T and say you're switching therapists. See if you can get in to talk to someone in person.

I can see your point Hankster...Thanks Cavi

i'm sorry if I come across as crabby or harsh - I feel like either i'm too vague and I don't explain myself at all (really, people say they don't understand how I made such a connection), or I come across as bossy or something? not how I mean it! (this time, anyway ) just trying to put my ideas out there.

Hankster your fine....

I emailed my T today and told her about this thread and the jist of her response says that what she has done as a friend is being done as part of therapy....That she has kept her dr. boundaries...I called and left a message saying that I want a break from contact...Truth is on one hand I knew but on the other I believed we were friends because that is words she has used...Right about now I want to get stoned drunk...Cavi

i think she's defending her actions when she's really in the wrong. i really don't understand how on earth she could think her actions have been for your benefit or that she hasn't crossed boundaries. either she believes that and she's delusional or she doesn't believe it and she's covering her ***.

Oh dear, what a nightmare! This is definitely not what a therapeutic relationship is supposed to be!

I fear you are going to have to be the bigger person in all of this and stop the relationship. I am so concerned that your therapist used the word "friend". Therapists shouldn't say that, or even imply the relationship is even LIKE a friendship, because it's not. It's meant to be one sided for the purpose of helping the client.

Rest assured...this definitely isn't you or your BPD diagnosis. This is because of your therapists own issues.

Maybe you could say to her that the confusion around your relationship and her use of the word friend has complicated the therapeutic relationship that you need and you feel you should seek assistance with another therapist?

Definitely a difficult situation to be in....especially in therapy where often what we really want is a friend.