[WePow]

I found this link and it is an amazing read!

http://kspope.com/memory/relationship.php

It shows how abuse survivors can heal with the T relationship.
There is so much truth in this! Wanted to share.

[pbutton]

Everytime I read something like this - As a result of the pervasive use of denial, survivors of sexual abuse suffer from intense, persistent self-doubt, often thinking that they have "made up the memories," are "exaggerating," or being "hysterical." my brain goes into a loop trying to decide if it applies to me or not. Every damn time.

[WePow]

Originally Posted by pbutton

Everytime I read something like this - As a result of the pervasive use of denial, survivors of sexual abuse suffer from intense, persistent self-doubt, often thinking that they have "made up the memories," are "exaggerating," or being "hysterical." my brain goes into a loop trying to decide if it applies to me or not. Every damn time.

Yeah! My brain loops on that too. Like yesterday! The crud we went through in EMDR was way too heavy. And I felt I was watching and listening to a stranger open up about what went on to me! It is so difficult. I hate abusers.

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by pbutton

Everytime I read something like this - As a result of the pervasive use of denial, survivors of sexual abuse suffer from intense, persistent self-doubt, often thinking that they have "made up the memories," are "exaggerating," or being "hysterical." my brain goes into a loop trying to decide if it applies to me or not. Every damn time.

^this is me. ∞

thanks wepow!

I can read about three sentences at time before I have to go do something else. When I read articles about the characteristics of people who were sexually abused, I get really panicky that anyone could read that and KNOW that I was.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I can read about three sentences at time before I have to go do something else. When I read articles about the characteristics of people who were sexually abused, I get really panicky that anyone could read that and KNOW that I was.

i think sexual abuse is something that the majority of us have in common. and look where we are right now....

I wish I could shoot them and bury them in the woods. i feel like it infected my entire life. theydon't get punished enough. there is no punishment bad enough for what they did.

Finally finished reading it. Now my brain is telling me that therapist is only so warm and open and caring with me because he HAS to be that way according to this article.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

I wish I could shoot them and bury them in the woods. i feel like it infected my entire life. theydon't get punished enough. there is no punishment bad enough for what they did.

Totally agree. But over time I learned that I could remove their influence from my head, my relationships, and my sense of self, although all these things are still a work in progress.

I don't worry about them being punished anymore. Karma and all that. I just focus more on not punishing myself, as that may have healed me more than anything else.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Totally agree. But over time I learned that I could remove their influence from my head, my relationships, and my sense of self, although all these things are still a work in progress.

I don't worry about them being punished anymore. Karma and all that. I just focus more on not punishing myself, as that may have healed me more than anything else.

i havent been able to figure out yet how to stop punishing myself.

Although the rate of abuse varies from study to study, some researchers found instances of sexual abuse to be as high as 1 in 10 for boys (Finkelhor, 1979) and 1 in 3 for girls (Russell, 1983).

This absolutely blows my mind! What the hell is wrong with people??????

Apparently if you do NOT have abuse in your background, you're not just normal, you're LUCKY ....

This part I would love to send to my xT....
Such factors make survivors of sexual abuse particularly sensitive to any indications of disbelief, avoidance, or lack of follow-up on the indications of abuse by the therapist. Thus, the therapist's willingness to consider the possibility and significance of abuse is of primary importance (Butler, 1978; Herman, 1981). A serious response from the therapist, addressing possible indications of abuse and inviting further exploration is necessary. Direct, matter-of-fact inquiry and follow-up regarding violence or sexual abuse in childhood enhances the likelihood of self-disclosure.

This made me cry...this is what happened to me with x T...
Several sessions ago Jane spoke, with difficulty, about a memory of being abused by her brother. Her therapist, wanting to respect her pace, decided not to refer to it again, waiting for Jane to bring it up when she was ready. Jane broke the family "rules" by telling. Afterward she felt frightened and thought she had done something wrong. When her therapist failed to mention the memory, she began to think that she had been exaggerating and that the incident wasn't such a big deal

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

i havent been able to figure out yet how to stop punishing myself.

You will. Keep trying. I suspect you're a faster learner than I was. It doesn't happen in a day, or a month, or probably not even a year, and it doesn't happen all at once. But one day I realized that I didn't want to beat myself up anymore, at least not right in that moment. I realize now that then I had turned the corner from self loathing to self acceptance.

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by Readytostop

This made me cry...this is what happened to me with x T...
Several sessions ago Jane spoke, with difficulty, about a memory of being abused by her brother. Her therapist, wanting to respect her pace, decided not to refer to it again, waiting for Jane to bring it up when she was ready. Jane broke the family "rules" by telling. Afterward she felt frightened and thought she had done something wrong. When her therapist failed to mention the memory, she began to think that she had been exaggerating and that the incident wasn't such a big deal

omg. yes. damitalltohell. Why the ef did he have to jump around from week to week? I couldn't bring it up again, I was too scared, but he knew so why didn't he? He thinks I am gross.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

You will. Keep trying. I suspect you're a faster learner than I was. It doesn't happen in a day, or a month, or probably not even a year, and it doesn't happen all at once. But one day I realized that I didn't want to beat myself up anymore, at least not right in that moment. I realize now that then I had turned the corner from self loathing to self acceptance.

not so far....i retrace the same steps over and over and never get anywhere new. I am almost ready to stop trying. Giving current T a chance to help me walk in a new direction this time.

[CantExplain]

The transferential expectations victims may bring to the therapeutic process, which include failure to protect, abandonment, indifference and even assault, can be intensified by the therapist's silence and passivity (Rose, 1991). A neutral stance, appropriate for some types of clients, is not effective and can even be harmful for adult survivors. As Spiegel (1986b) explains, "traditional analytic reserve is often perceived by the patient as a lack of concern or even a sadistic pleasure in the patient's suffering" (p. 72). Attitudes of "distance" or "therapeutic neutrality" are likely to remind abuse victims of their dysfunctional family's patterns of interaction and therefore reinforce the patterns of denial. A similar recreation of the abusing family's attitudes can also result from instances where the therapist manages the intense countertransference reactions to these client's painful experiences, by distancing from or minimizing the significance of the abuse.

I've tried to persuade my T of this but she's not buying it. But then I'm not a survivor of CSA.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I've tried to persuade my T of this but she's not buying it. But then I'm not a survivor of CSA.

Right. What you need WILL NOT be the same thing that someone who has experienced sexual abuse needs. Your T is trying to help you grow. Maybe it's time to stop being mad and sad about that and try to accept her help. [That may sound harsher than I mean it to. You just seem to keep fighting the same battle over and over and your T sounds like she keeps trying to tell you that you are trying to get something from her that you DON'T need and/or that wouldn't even be good for you.]

[pbutton]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I've tried to persuade my T of this but she's not buying it. But then I'm not a survivor of CSA.

I can't imagine trying to persuade my T of this. I'd be mortified that I was acting so rude and entitled.

I am a survivor of CSA. Maybe that's the difference?

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by pbutton

I can't imagine trying to persuade my T of this. I'd be mortified that I was acting so rude and entitled.

I am a survivor of CSA. Maybe that's the difference?

I think that might be the difference. I am not a survivor of CSA... but I do experience distance and neutrality as purposely withholding, and distance does bring to mind a lot of my family's dysfunction. Those things are probably the crux of what goes wrong all the time within my family. It's possible to have a screwed up family without being abused. I don't think it's wrong for CantExplain -- or me -- to feel abandoned, vulnerable, and purposely unprotected even though we're not CSA survivors.

Whether either of us is getting into a bad pattern with our T's, though, is an individual matter.

I just think that while this might be broadly applicable to survivors, that doesn't meant it is NOT applicable to those who are not.

[pbutton]

That does make sense Sally. I think I probably should have put a bit more thought into my post.

I have a lot of people in my family who try to persuade everyone to give them what they want, even if it is not good for anyone involved. So I tend to get a little hotheaded when something reminds me of that. That's something I need to work on.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I've tried to persuade my T of this but she's not buying it. But then I'm not a survivor of CSA.

As a survivor of CSA and an xT who needed to read this article. It is not something that needed to be brought to the attention of my new T as my reaction to " Attitudes of "distance" or "therapeutic neutrality" " were very evidently detrimental and re traumatizing, see xT. Although, I agree with Sally that everyone can have these same reactions, but the level at which we experience them is different. For me it is and was a HOTBUTTON issue.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I've tried to persuade my T of this but she's not buying it.

I think that trying to persuade anyone of anything and being unhappy that they have a different opinion than you do is something you may have had difficulty with before, with T and/or others.

It's not much different from trying to get your T to react in a specific way to you. Sometimes I have wanted T to say a specific thing back to me that he doesn't believe, or to have a particular emotional reaction that he just doesn't. What both things have in common is that they don't allow the other person to truly be separate from us but also be connected and close. It's a boundary thing, in some way. For me I also think it's part of my issue that I want to demand or force, but in a non-obvious way, that people essentially be like me or think like me.

I am not saying that doing either of these things is wrong and/or bad. But trying to get others to believe or say or react in specific ways is usually counterproductive, IME. The less I need someone to react in a particular way, the more often they actually do. I think when we allow people the freedom to choose authentically how to relate to us, that's when we get the best stuff.

One that that those who experience CSA and your childhood may have in common is deficiencies in getting what we needed from others. I got some things I didn't need, and didn't get others that I did need. I sort of learned to just shut down and not seek anything from anyone. It was a helpful sort of independence as I was bulldozing my way through three advanced degrees and a high powered career. Not so helpful when I wanted to have meaningful social connections, good intimate relationships, parent in a mindful way, and do work with trauma survivors who needed my heart and mind as much as they needed my brain.

Then as I tried to become healthier, I think the pendulum swings a little too far the other way. Dammnit, people are going to give me what I want right now, as fast as I tell them too. I'm nobody's freakin' doormat. If you don't give me what I want, I'm going to kick you to the curb. You must see things the way that I see them, especially if they involve resolving my own CSA experience. I pity the people who try to tell me something about myself that I don't agree with.

Now, I'm kind of zooming around somewhere in the middle ground between independence and requiring certain kinds of reactions and responses from people. I no longer feel like I can't or won't ask people for things or to be there for me, but I have less of a need for those things to be a specific sort of thing, and I'm definitely not as pissed when I don't get what I ask for. My biggest issue is that I know I do not clearly communicate that I need support or empathy or whatever, even when I think I have.

I don't know if anything here actually relates to what you're feeling, but I thought I would toss it out there. I just came back from T in a reflective mood and this is what I connected to what you said.

[SallyBrown]

Originally Posted by pbutton

That does make sense Sally. I think I probably should have put a bit more thought into my post.

I have a lot of people in my family who try to persuade everyone to give them what they want, even if it is not good for anyone involved. So I tend to get a little hotheaded when something reminds me of that. That's something I need to work on.

No worries, no worries. I just wanted to be sure not to get too stuck in generalities. I can absolutely see how persuading someone to give you what you want hits on the past (and that with CantExplain, since we know so much of his history with his T, it brings up all of that information as well)... probably in the same way that being taken seriously as someone who wasn't abused hits a button for me! I hope I wasn't too harsh.