[elliemay]

Well, I can honestly say that I have never run across this before. Have you ever been in a position, or felt as though you were put in a position where you had to help your therapist through something?
Without divulging too much (my therapist is very internet savvy), I do have a level of expertise in an area that inevitably people do need guidance and instruction in. (it’s medical).
When something comes up with family, friends etc… I am always the one that gets the call, always the one that soothes the fears, always the one that answers the never ending questions.
My therapist ran into a situation like this and, naturally called on me. We spent a session discussing his problems. Then we spent another session discussing how they resolved.
Just like all the others situations, there were equal amounts of knowledge and support dispersed.
On one hand, I really really really don’t mind doing that for anyone. I know that I have helped a lot of people. It also felt really nice that I was able to help my therapist.
On the other hand, dude… really? You brought that into my session? It put me in a rather sticky position because, well, what could I do – say no? This is my time?
I’m quite confused as to how to proceed, or even how to wrap my brain around this. It’s way out of the therapeutic boundary – at least the one modeled by my old therapist.
Is it okay that I helped him? Is it fair? Should I be put in that position?
Why do I always have to be the strong one in the room? Why can’t I have my superman?

I'd tell him you were happy to help, but your session is your time to talk about your problems, and you would appreciate a credit/refund for the two sessions where you did not discuss your problems/issues. That sounds cold, but it's what I would do and be perfectly within rights to do so.

Tell him you are more than happy to help him, you would just prefer not to PAY HIM to help him. That's hardly fair.

I do think its ok you helped him tho, just not that it was done during a paid therapy session.

[stopdog]

I have had the same thing happen where I had expertise in an area the therapist asked me about. But I did not pay the therapist for that appointment or the next one. And then we went back to usual.

But as to your other question about what could you do?
I do believe it is perfectly okay to tell the therapist no, it is your time. I think it is okay to tell a therapist if he wants info about something from you that you are the expert in, he can arrange an appointment with you for it at your normal hourly fee.

[unaluna]

and he made you pay for the session? that would be my first objection. if insurance covered it, then the fact that this is a fairly new r/s would bother me. OTOH, it does mean you are a formidable resource. after 6 years with my T, I feel on pretty equal footing, but I can still tell he manages it. Your T must be in pretty dire straits to expose that side of himself to you? Or did he play it professionally or what? How did you act and feel during the transaction? Maybe that's the point, the mutuality?

[Anne2.0]

I have had this happen with more than one therapist, although the professional information I provided did not take up two whole sessions.

What it brought up for me was actually quite instructive in a couple of ways. The first was about the conflict that some children (like myself) feel when having something "put on" them that really shouldn't be there because of their role as the child-- which commonly happens in many kinds of abuse and neglect. One of the things that I am crazy about as the parent is having my child be a child. But what I learned about this conflict from my T putting me into the role of helping him (or her) in this role-reversal was that my childhood role-reversal experience carried both power and damage. I felt both that I had control (because of being assigned the "adult" role) and that I was a failure (because no child can succeed in an adult role) and that really messed up my head. When the role reversal happened in T, it gave me a lot of empathy for the child me who felt so conflicted, who wanted to do the "helpful" thing and yet wanted very much in T to be able to let go of helping everybody else and enjoy being nurtured. It reminds me of when I was a full time academic, how wonderful it was to attend a conference or a workshop when I didn't have to give a presentation, I could just learn and absorb, and have no responsibility for teaching anyone.

The other thing I learned was about reciprocity in social relationships more generally. I learned that ultimately that my T asking for a limited amount of help from me was not the same thing as being "parentified" as an abused kid. But other social relationships were more like that, that they were unbalanced where I was too much the helper and not helped enough (really I basically don't let people close enough to help me). So I started re-evaluating my social relationships, including my marriage, and made a new start at trying to allow others to nurture and support me.

I don't think there's any right or wrong answer, such as a T shouldn't ever ask a client for help. I also think that the stock answer of it's important to talk to your T about how you feel also applies.

I find on this third round of therapy that this is an underlying dynamic in my T relationship. That it is a much more disclosing, less tightly boundaried version of my earlier therapy where I knew very little of my T's life and life experiences. This relationship is a much more reciprocal one, and it has something to do with where I am in the therapeutic process that my T is so willing to be so open about himself and his life. Even that is teaching me that relationships are not so cookie-cutter in type, and to be more flexible with my own boundaries when it is good for me.

Originally Posted by elliemay

Well, I can honestly say that I have never run across this before. Have you ever been in a position, or felt as though you were put in a position where you had to help your therapist through something?
Without divulging too much (my therapist is very internet savvy), I do have a level of expertise in an area that inevitably people do need guidance and instruction in. (it’s medical).
When something comes up with family, friends etc… I am always the one that gets the call, always the one that soothes the fears, always the one that answers the never ending questions.
My therapist ran into a situation like this and, naturally called on me. We spent a session discussing his problems. Then we spent another session discussing how they resolved.
Just like all the others situations, there were equal amounts of knowledge and support dispersed.
On one hand, I really really really don’t mind doing that for anyone. I know that I have helped a lot of people. It also felt really nice that I was able to help my therapist.
On the other hand, dude… really? You brought that into my session? It put me in a rather sticky position because, well, what could I do – say no? This is my time?
I’m quite confused as to how to proceed, or even how to wrap my brain around this. It’s way out of the therapeutic boundary – at least the one modeled by my old therapist.
Is it okay that I helped him? Is it fair? Should I be put in that position?
Why do I always have to be the strong one in the room? Why can’t I have my superman?

[anilam]

Not fair and surely not professional- did you have to pay for the sessions?
Happened to me too- I work in the medical field and am use to help ppl so when my T was ill (had to cancel few session) I asked him what's wrong and he refused to tell me. I argued that I could help him and he said that that's the reason he won't share this with me. I was a bit angry at him then. He explained to me that in therapy T shouldn't get any help/service from his client. That T-client RS is hard enough without any additional second/third/forth... meanings.
So sorry your T have crossed this boundary. I know it's hard to ask for what is rightfully yours (feeling guilty that he needs your help now, is sick and scarred). You are paying him for his service, he is NOT your friend and should have known better than to use you for his needs.

I wonder if its more that you experienced your T as being vuneable and that felt too unsettling? I know once when my T's doorbell broke & I made light of it and she sort of said she would need help in fitting a new one and I mentioned that you can get non wired (she's an old hse) now and she seem relieved to be told that. I felt like the balance in our relationship had tipped & I kinda of liked it for a second but further thinking I decided I never wanted the imbalance to happen again. Just a little thing but it had enormous conitations for me.

[critterlady]

If he needed your professional expertise, I think it would have been ok for him to ask for a referral to someone with similar knowledge who is not his client. But to have you spend two of your sessions dealing with his personal issues having nothing to with you therapy is unethical and just plain wrong.

Can you bring him the contact info for someone else who could advise him and say, "I'm not comfortable continuing to discuss with you, but if you need more guidance, here's a person I think can help." Would that work?

[pbutton]

That does sound a little hinky to me. I agree, I think he should have asked you for a referral.

Elliemay,
this was highly unprofessional of your T, and I really can't believe that he charged you for those two sessions that were mainly about his problems. You have a right to ask for your money back and I would have a talk with him about ethcs and dual relationships.
This could have changed your relationship forever and therapy is about your problems not his. I would not have an issue if he had kept you back after your session or rang you but not on your time. its not fair.

[Wren_]

((((elliemay)))) can you tell t this ... that just for once you need someone to be the strong one for you ...
and see if you can get that feeling back

[skeksi]

Originally Posted by critterlady

Can you bring him the contact info for someone else who could advise him and say, "I'm not comfortable continuing to discuss with you, but if you need more guidance, here's a person I think can help." Would that work?

I really like critterlady's suggestion. It would make me feel so uncomfortable to be put in that position! To have it happen once might be an error in his judgement, but twice is clearly unfair to you. If it comes up again it seems like you have to be the one to remind him of his professional boundaries. Eesh!

((((((Ellie)))))))

A few years ago, my T had to have an MRI on his back. I asked him how it went and he said "thank you for asking me, but I have a lot of support and this is about you". It kind of stung, but it did set a clear boundary and helped me not feel so much like I have to "take care" of T (something so completely ingrained and left over from my childhood).

I wonder if being put in the "caretaker" position - like you were probably in with your mom - was kind of triggering??

I completely agree that you shouldn't have to pay for these sessions.

You seem to have really good skills when it comes to working things out with T...maybe this weird situation will lead to more understanding and closeness in the relationship.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have had the same thing happen where I had expertise in an area the therapist asked me about. But I did not pay the therapist for that appointment or the next one. And then we went back to usual.

But as to your other question about what could you do?
I do believe it is perfectly okay to tell the therapist no, it is your time. I think it is okay to tell a therapist if he wants info about something from you that you are the expert in, he can arrange an appointment with you for it at your normal hourly fee.

Sadly, i do not think my therapist could afford my hourly fee. Even for academics, it rather pricey...

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Sadly, i do not think my therapist could afford my hourly fee. Even for academics, it rather pricey...

Then refer him to someone else or exchange appointments for it. His problem, not yours.

[Chopin99]

I just don't think he should have done that. A couple of times I offered to help my T with something I am good at. Both times, it occurred after my session was over and took less than an hour both times.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I find on this third round of therapy that this is an underlying dynamic in my T relationship. That it is a much more disclosing, less tightly boundaried version of my earlier therapy where I knew very little of my T's life and life experiences. This relationship is a much more reciprocal one, and it has something to do with where I am in the therapeutic process that my T is so willing to be so open about himself and his life. Even that is teaching me that relationships are not so cookie-cutter in type, and to be more flexible with my own boundaries when it is good for me.

I will admit that this guy has pretty much been an open book compared to my last one. It's made me uncomfortable on several occasions, but it's doable you know? Just different.

[elliemay]

You know, I type these responses and they just go away. It's really annoying...

[Asiablue]

You def should NOT have had to pay for those sessions. Fair enough advising on something that you have expertise but if you want to, but it shouldn't be at the expense of your time and you def shouldn't be out of pocket!

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by nightsky

((((((Ellie)))))))

A few years ago, my T had to have an MRI on his back. I asked him how it went and he said "thank you for asking me, but I have a lot of support and this is about you". It kind of stung, but it did set a clear boundary and helped me not feel so much like I have to "take care" of T (something so completely ingrained and left over from my childhood).

I wonder if being put in the "caretaker" position - like you were probably in with your mom - was kind of triggering??

I completely agree that you shouldn't have to pay for these sessions.

You seem to have really good skills when it comes to working things out with T...maybe this weird situation will lead to more understanding and closeness in the relationship.

I do think that this is all about me feeling put in the caregiver position. I get so tired sometimes. I feel put in that situation way too often. I know it's because I can do it, so it falls to me. I'm just tired.

It's not that I want my therapist to take care of me. I don't need or want that. I just don't want to have to take care of him. It's causing all kinds of strange, upsetting feelings.

I just don't want that.

My old therapist created a very nice space for me. It was so safe. He was in the space with me, but it was mine. I don't know how he did that actually.

this guy occupies my space.

Also, he handled the payment thing kinda ****** (or I did depending on how you look at it). He said that he felt like he shouldn't charge me for the sessions. Me? Oh. I paid for November in full.

I really don't know what to do here. I have no idea how this guy will handle my upset. I can't trust his reaction yet.

Oh well, time will tell. If he reacts poorly, then my suspicions are well on the way to being confirmed.

[pbutton]

You should not be put anywhere close to an area where you need to take care of him. Particularly if this is a problem area for you with your family.

[thinkpositive]

Originally Posted by elliemay

Well, I can honestly say that I have never run across this before. Have you ever been in a position, or felt as though you were put in a position where you had to help your therapist through something?
Without divulging too much (my therapist is very internet savvy), I do have a level of expertise in an area that inevitably people do need guidance and instruction in. (it’s medical).
When something comes up with family, friends etc… I am always the one that gets the call, always the one that soothes the fears, always the one that answers the never ending questions.
My therapist ran into a situation like this and, naturally called on me. We spent a session discussing his problems. Then we spent another session discussing how they resolved.
Just like all the others situations, there were equal amounts of knowledge and support dispersed.
On one hand, I really really really don’t mind doing that for anyone. I know that I have helped a lot of people. It also felt really nice that I was able to help my therapist.
On the other hand, dude… really? You brought that into my session? It put me in a rather sticky position because, well, what could I do – say no? This is my time?
I’m quite confused as to how to proceed, or even how to wrap my brain around this. It’s way out of the therapeutic boundary – at least the one modeled by my old therapist.
Is it okay that I helped him? Is it fair? Should I be put in that position?
Why do I always have to be the strong one in the room? Why can’t I have my superman?

You obviosly feel you have to have all the right answers in order to feel fulfilled.Sometimes we don't have all the answers but the way to gain them is to go through our own personal trials and errors. You may be a controller and find yourself by directing others. We have to take time out for our issues(to let go and face our own selves).We can then better ourselves by gaining wisdom through our walk in life and we can grow and help others with experience

[adel34]

In my oppinion, this does put you in a very hard position, and is something I would not apreciate, having to help my therapist with anything! I had a t in the past who disclosed way too much about her life and family issues in my sessions, and it ended up reinacting the role I had in my family of listener and someone to be there for others, rather than it being my therapy!
If he does this again, I'd kindly tell him to seek medical advice elsewhere. Sorry this happened.

[thinkpositive]

Originally Posted by thinkpositive

You obviously feel you have to have all the right answers in order to feel fulfilled.Sometimes we don't have all the answers but the way to gain them is to go through our own personal trials and errors. You may be a controller and find yourself by directing others. We have to take time out for our own issues(to let go and face our own selves).We can then better ourselves by gaining wisdom through our walk in life and we can grow and help others with experience

I would not try to help a therapist to feel valuable. This is not appropriate. It takes away from you recognizing your issues. It could be a form of denial and a way to feel superior to ignore the work you might need to do on your own problems.

[adel34]

Think Positive,
Ely May said that her therapist brought this problem to her, and spent two sessions going over it with her. She didn't go out of her way to help her therapist "as a form of denial, or a way to feel superior," or to " avoid working on her own issues."
Sorry, but your response feels kind of judgmental to me.