[Anne2.0]

Mention of medical issue and one dynamic (not act or incident) of CSA. Also, like most of my posts, it’s way longer than it really needs to be for what I have to say, but writing is sort of my processing, you’ve been warned.









It has been a tough week. I had two medical appointments to work on my now chronic nerve pain issues, both invasive exams, one was physical therapy and even though the therapist was really amazing and very emotionally supportive, it was just draining and triggering. And I had a bad flashback during s*x that really freaked me out. I have felt that body memories and flashbacks and just a low level feeling-triggered-all-the-time sense (does anyone else have this?) have ruled my life.

So I spent some time at the beginning of my session talking about this stuff and how I felt like I was regressing because of feeling like my PTSD symptoms were flaring and at the forefront of my life. My T said it didn’t look like regression to him, it looked like progress from where he sat, and maybe for the first time I didn’t try to correct him and make him see it from my perspective. I cried a lot, off and on, and when it was near time to stop, I asked him for help in putting my “stuff” away. I told him that I had tried to put it in my usual “container”, which is some kind of heating or cooling unit box that is on the roof outside his window, but it wasn’t working. He got out of his chair and leaned over to see what I was talking about, which really pleased me in some kind of inexplicable way, as if he was making some extra effort to see things from my perspective (literally).

He said that he didn’t have anyone coming in the next hour and that we had time to work on putting it away. Then he asked me if I wanted to see if I could tune into it (the thing I’m trying to put away) as a way to understand better how to put it away. He asked me what might help me do that and then he added what he did (which makes that “what helps you” question not aggravating, I also discovered); he said he puts both feet flat on the floor and does his yoga breathing; I said I didn’t want to do that but I did want to change positions. I got into my meditative position on the couch and closed my eyes and said that I felt it pressing in on me, not in an aggressive way, but sort of like waves in the ocean, like I was in the ocean (I love water and swimming). I said it was hard to tell where I ended and the ocean and waves began.

He asked me if I wanted to let it come to me rather than put it away, if I thought that I could tolerate that. I love his “can you tolerate this” questions, also for reasons that I can’t really explain except that I know that whatever my answer is, it is truly okay with him and he isn’t trying to control me. What kind of rocked about this in retrospect is that I didn’t come to T thinking I needed to say something about my CSA. On any previous time that I have disclosed something, it’s because it has been dogging me for days, weeks, I’ve been thinking about it, journaling about it, feeling I wanted to say it but couldn’t in previous sessions, etc. The previous disclosures, at least with this T, have been about catharsis and sort of letting it out into the universe to disperse, and there haven’t been all that many of them.

I realized what “it” was that was trying to get me to pay attention to it. And then I started talking about talking about it to him. I asked him something like, “what do you do with knowing something new about what happened to you, when there is already so much known about it, maybe this thing is true and maybe it’s not, but the thing is not exactly earth shattering but it does shift the corners of the story?” He said some very T like thing about how it becomes part of what you work with and explore and you start where you’re at. I asked if I could tell him where I’m at and he said, very believably, “always.”

So I told him that I had always thought that my perpetrator had taken me out, away in the car, and abused me during the day. But now I think that he also abused me at home, in my own room, at night or in the middle of the night. In my story about where things happened I felt protected in a way, because I thought that it had never happened at home. For some reason, I now feel that I was more vulnerable then, and I feel more vulnerable now. And I know that I need to talk to my H now about what I need him to do to help me feel safer.

Now I realize that he had some sense that there was something I needed to deal with rather than the issue was really something I needed to put away. And that’s the part of the T process that has left me in awe, because I don’t understand how he knew that—and of course maybe it was a lucky guess or there was just something about having more time (I only stayed 20 minutes past the hour so it wasn’t even that much longer) that allowed him to guide me towards it. And it was his ability to transform the thing from my inability to put something away to my insight, I guess, about the puzzle shifting piece of what I learned about my CSA experience, that I find most astonishing. Like, how did that happen? Was there some clue in the flashback symptoms I was describing to him, was it because I am usually capable of putting something away, was it that he just gave me what I needed emotionally to be able to look at it rather than avoid it? I dunno. But it was definitely the most healing T experience that I have ever had and I have a new appreciation for how the relationship helped to get me here.

I wound down pretty quickly after the disclosure, I was wiped out and ready to leave. We talked some about how to put it away and he asked me how long I needed to put it away for, I said until next week. He also remembered that there was maybe something historical going on around this time of the year for me; he said that he remembered that last year he took time off and I was having some trouble working with something (his very nice way of saying that I called him five days in a row when he was on staycation and he came in during my regular appointment time on Friday (of his vacation) just to see me). That helped me put this in context as well.

Thank you for reading.

I am glad he was able to guide you through and able to hear what you were saying.

I feel like this, too:

I asked him something like, “what do you do with knowing something new about what happened to you, when there is already so much known about it, maybe this thing is true and maybe it’s not."

"but it does shift the corners of the story?”

Ever since my cousin has been telling me stuff about his version of what happened. It is all very confusing, but mostly what I am left with is that nothing is safe. When I have those body memories you mentioned, I dig my nails into my arms or I try to cut them away with razors.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by TentativeConnection

Ever since my cousin has been telling me stuff about his version of what happened. It is all very confusing, but mostly what I am left with is that nothing is safe. When I have those body memories you mentioned, I dig my nails into my arms or I try to cut them away with razors.

I do understand this and have had my own struggles with SI. I have gradually come to welcome my memories, body-wise and other, and have felt that I want all my memories, because they belong to me.

It's been too long and I couldn't really explain the process of eliminating SI, but I know it had a lot to do with being able to somehow acknowledge the memories, so they would leave me alone, and not wanting to continue to abuse myself and keep the abuse alive through what I did to me (making it as if the perpetrator had won or that he still continued to have an influence over me), and realizing that I and my body were worthy of kindness.

I am sorry that the memories dog you and that you have to respond with SI to cope. I know that you know that there are better ways, and you have better ways to cope, and when you are ready, you'll make the changes you need to.

Thanks for replying and letting me know that I'm not alone in how I feel. I appreciate that more than you can ever know.

Anne, one of my big fears in finally starting to dig through my CSA stuff is whether I will be able to get it all put away at the end of the allotted time. I am so happy for you hat your t took the time to accommodate you and lead you to his new insight. So happy for you, in that respect.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Anne, one of my big fears in finally starting to dig through my CSA stuff is whether I will be able to get it all put away at the end of the allotted time.

I'm sure you've already talked to your T about it, but this "containering" idea is something I learned from a previous T. My current T spoke about it as taking the fences down and then building them up again before you leave, but he's happy to go with my box-it-up imagery.

You can do it, I know that you can. It works.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I am so happy for you hat your t took the time to accommodate you and lead you to his new insight. So happy for you, in that respect.

Thank you-- but it wasn't his insight, it was mine. mine, mine, mine His brilliance was expressed in the way he seemed to know that this was a time to allow something to make its appearance rather than try to box it up.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Anne,
I think you are really courageous and am so glad that you were able to experience your memories in a safe place with a safe person.

I have felt that body memories and flashbacks and just a low level feeling-triggered-all-the-time sense (does anyone else have this?) have ruled my life.

I do feel this way, that my triggers have compounded in such a way that I am almost triggered by different things on a daily basis. I don't feel like I was damaged enough in the past to have this happen, though, so I don't really know. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, but I thnk it is good that you have realized this so when it happens, maybe it won't be so frightening if you have an understanding of it.

Also, like most of my posts, it’s way longer than it really needs to be for what I have to say, but writing is sort of my processing, you’ve been warned.

I totally get this, Anne. I think I have written posts on here that could constitute a novel I read all of your post, and in my opinion it was just as long as it needed to be.

and maybe for the first time I didn’t try to correct him and make him see it from my perspective.

I did the same thing with my xT, and it was maddening. I can't explain why I can't tolerate him not seeing things from my perspective. But I couldn't. I did a few times, though, and he said, "I can see you are not trying to get me to change what I am saying." But it still felt difficult. Thanks for posting this I totally get it. Good for you on being able to not only tolerate this, but to keep going and connecting more deeply with your T.

Now I realize that he had some sense that there was something I needed to deal with rather than the issue was really something I needed to put away. And that’s the part of the T process that has left me in awe, because I don’t understand how he knew that—and of course maybe it was a lucky guess or there was just something about having more time

I love this part of therapy! I think that in the therapy room, there is the patient's and the therapist's communication in the conscious realm, but that there is also communication in the subconscious realm that exists but that is more elusive. Either party may sense it or it may just present itself with neither party knowing how/what happened. This is the beauty, in my opinion, of the therapeutical relationship, in that it brings to light that there is more going on in human interaction than meets the eye. This happens in everyday communication, also. It's so amazing to me. I am so glad that you got to experience this, as it is very awesome, and it brings a realization that human connection is so much deeper than we realize.

I am SO inspired/impressed by your post. I am so glad that you had such a healing session. You are making so much progress, and you so deserve that. You didn't deserve what happened, and it makes me so sad that it did. You will find peace, a peace that is not just transitory but that lasts and stays with you. Thank you so much for sharing your story.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

I love this part of therapy! I think that in the therapy room, there is the patient's and the therapist's communication in the conscious realm, but that there is also communication in the subconscious realm that exists but that is more elusive. Either party may sense it or it may just present itself with neither party knowing how/what happened. This is the beauty, in my opinion, of the therapeutical relationship, in that it brings to light that there is more going on in human interaction than meets the eye. This happens in everyday communication, also. It's so amazing to me. I am so glad that you got to experience this, as it is very awesome, and it brings a realization that human connection is so much deeper than we realize.

Wow, you really explained this so very well. There is more to the interaction in therapy than the words exchanged in any given moment. And you are right, it does happen in other relationships as well, especially when you have a long history with someone.

Thank you so much for all the many kind words and thoughts in your post to me. I drank them in and will hold them with me. Er . . . I didn't mean to make that sound like a creepy body image . . . but hopefullly, and I think you do, you get me and what I'm saying.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Wow, you really explained this so very well. There is more to the interaction in therapy than the words exchanged in any given moment. And you are right, it does happen in other relationships as well, especially when you have a long history with someone.

Thank you so much for all the many kind words and thoughts in your post to me. I drank them in and will hold them with me. Er . . . I didn't mean to make that sound like a creepy body image . . . but hopefullly, and I think you do, you get me and what I'm saying.

Thank you for helping me, too. lol, nothing creepy, I do get you and I get what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I'm sure you've already talked to your T about it, but this "containering" idea is something I learned from a previous T. My current T spoke about it as taking the fences down and then building them up again before you leave, but he's happy to go with my box-it-up imagery.

You can do it, I know that you can. It works.


Thank you-- but it wasn't his insight, it was mine. mine, mine, mine His brilliance was expressed in the way he seemed to know that this was a time to allow something to make its appearance rather than try to box it up.

I'm on my phone so it's hard to type. . I was honest to goodness trying to say "this"'insight and NOT "his" insight. I wouldn't have tried to reply on this phone except that I was really moved by your experience.

My t mentioned the container idea and offered me a drawer in the filing cabinet. First, I have way too much **** to fit in there and second, I cannot leave it with any one else even in my imagination. Third, I just have concerns about the time constraints and having to get it put away in a timely way. I appreciate your vote of confidence in thinking I can do this.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I'm on my phone so it's hard to type. . I was honest to goodness trying to say "this"'insight and NOT "his" insight. I wouldn't have tried to reply on this phone except that I was really moved by your experience.

Thank you, and my apologies for misunderstanding you.

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

My t mentioned the container idea and offered me a drawer in the filing cabinet. First, I have way too much **** to fit in there and second, I cannot leave it with any one else even in my imagination. Third, I just have concerns about the time constraints and having to get it put away in a timely way. I appreciate your vote of confidence in thinking I can do this.

The **** you need to container on any given day, in session I mean, is only the stuff that you talk about that day. I don't leave my entire history in the AC unit on his roof; I only leave the piece that I talked about today, the bit about my perpetrator also coming to my room. And the idea is that you box it up until you're ready to deal with the next time, so it doesn't dog you throughout your week. So I'm not sure you need as big of a space as you think. And the idea is that when you take it out of the box the next time to deal with it, you might not need to put it away/container it at all. Usually mine just kind of becomes part of the universe-- in the vast space of the universe, my *** is really small and pretty innocuous.

This time, I didn't leave it in the AC unit outside. For some reason that wasn't working for me. I asked him for help again in putting it away (yes I noticed I asked for help twice in the same session, i'm surprised his head didn't explode). He pointed to a file drawer. I asked him to open it. Then I asked him to sit back down. This was starting to get fun, like a game of Simon Says, T style. Then I asked him if I could intimidate it into the file drawer. He said, you could do what you want, you might try inviting it in and asking it to leave you alone until next week. It's just my little bit about my perpetrator coming to my room, at night. It hops nicely in the drawer. I ask T to close the drawer. He sits down before I can ask him to sit. I feel like I can breathe again, the full kind of breath that swirls in the belly and lightens my spirit.

Just little bits at a time, MKAC. Like a spoonful of an experience, not a bulldozer's shovel full. Bit by bit, you can box it up and leave it with T. Or leave it under the roof or outside the window so it's not "with" him, but not with you. Sometimes it finds its own way into the universe and you don't need to take it out again.

Thank you for sharing with me. It really helps to feel that this kind of stuff connects with people, in some way.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Thank you, and my apologies for misunderstanding you.

It's not you; it's my phone and my giant fat fingers. LOL.

The **** you need to container on any given day, in session I mean, is only the stuff that you talk about that day. I don't leave my entire history in the AC unit on his roof; I only leave the piece that I talked about today, the bit about my perpetrator also coming to my room. And the idea is that you box it up until you're ready to deal with the next time, so it doesn't dog you throughout your week. So I'm not sure you need as big of a space as you think. And the idea is that when you take it out of the box the next time to deal with it, you might not need to put it away/container it at all. Usually mine just kind of becomes part of the universe-- in the vast space of the universe, my *** is really small and pretty innocuous.

This time, I didn't leave it in the AC unit outside. For some reason that wasn't working for me. I asked him for help again in putting it away (yes I noticed I asked for help twice in the same session, i'm surprised his head didn't explode). He pointed to a file drawer. I asked him to open it. Then I asked him to sit back down. This was starting to get fun, like a game of Simon Says, T style. Then I asked him if I could intimidate it into the file drawer. He said, you could do what you want, you might try inviting it in and asking it to leave you alone until next week. It's just my little bit about my perpetrator coming to my room, at night. It hops nicely in the drawer. I ask T to close the drawer. He sits down before I can ask him to sit. I feel like I can breathe again, the full kind of breath that swirls in the belly and lightens my spirit.

Just little bits at a time, MKAC. Like a spoonful of an experience, not a bulldozer's shovel full. Bit by bit, you can box it up and leave it with T. Or leave it under the roof or outside the window so it's not "with" him, but not with you. Sometimes it finds its own way into the universe and you don't need to take it out again.

Thank you for sharing with me. It really helps to feel that this kind of stuff connects with people, in some way.

Thank you for clarifying how this works. I guess my stuff still FEELS so big. And I tend to want to do it all at once. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to share your experience to try to help guide some of the rest of us through it. Really. I appreciate you so much.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

The **** you need to container on any given day, in session I mean, is only the stuff that you talk about that day. I don't leave my entire history in the AC unit on his roof; I only leave the piece that I talked about today, the bit about my perpetrator also coming to my room. And the idea is that you box it up until you're ready to deal with the next time, so it doesn't dog you throughout your week. So I'm not sure you need as big of a space as you think. And the idea is that when you take it out of the box the next time to deal with it, you might not need to put it away/container it at all. Usually mine just kind of becomes part of the universe-- in the vast space of the universe, my *** is really small and pretty innocuous.

This time, I didn't leave it in the AC unit outside. For some reason that wasn't working for me. I asked him for help again in putting it away (yes I noticed I asked for help twice in the same session, i'm surprised his head didn't explode). He pointed to a file drawer. I asked him to open it. Then I asked him to sit back down. This was starting to get fun, like a game of Simon Says, T style. Then I asked him if I could intimidate it into the file drawer. He said, you could do what you want, you might try inviting it in and asking it to leave you alone until next week. It's just my little bit about my perpetrator coming to my room, at night. It hops nicely in the drawer. I ask T to close the drawer. He sits down before I can ask him to sit. I feel like I can breathe again, the full kind of breath that swirls in the belly and lightens my spirit.

Just little bits at a time, MKAC. Like a spoonful of an experience, not a bulldozer's shovel full. Bit by bit, you can box it up and leave it with T. Or leave it under the roof or outside the window so it's not "with" him, but not with you. Sometimes it finds its own way into the universe and you don't need to take it out again.

Thank you for sharing with me. It really helps to feel that this kind of stuff connects with people, in some way.

I like this idea, Anne, of leaving the trauma and pain in the container. So, do you only deal with your trauma in the therapy room? I was just wondering if that is why you think I'm doing too much too fast. This is what my T thinks should be happening. My T believes that most of the work in therapy happens outside of therapy.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Chopin99

So, do you only deal with your trauma in the therapy room? I was just wondering if that is why you think I'm doing too much too fast. This is what my T thinks should be happening. My T believes that most of the work in therapy happens outside of therapy.

I WISH that I could control it enough to only deal with it in the therapy room. In my early days of working on it 15 years ago, there was definitely a period of all trauma, all the time, I could barely function even though I was at a high powered job then and I did just fine. It was just tough. Nightmares, flashbacks, lots of distress at little reminders of things, etc. I journaled, I did a self run survivor's group. I did 5 years of therapy and thought I was done for good. I got married, had a kid, left job for working for myself, been working with trauma survivors almost exclusively since then. All these things provided ample opportunity to work on my own stuff too, whether I wanted to or not.

So fast forward to now, where I'm heading close to my 2 year anniversary with current T. I am on a self imposed break from journaling right now, and that's a good thing. I have always used it to process trauma related stuff outside of therapy. Usually the trauma related stuff just comes up and sometimes I can container it until T and then let it rip then, then container it back up again. But whether it comes before T or out during T, I don't always need to container it. Sometimes it's just worked on enough that it isn't clinging to me like **** on my shoe or I'm feeling grounded and mindful enough to be fine with wherever it is. But some things are too big when they come out in T that I need to put them away.

I think it's a balance between learning to tolerate sitting with your stuff and being able to put it away. And like a box on a self, containering something isn't about avoiding it or trashing it forever. It's about "not now" or taking a break from it. It's there and you know right where it is when you are in a place where you can deal with it. For me it has partly been learning to be more gentle with myself and not hitting myself over the head with too much ****.

I think maybe that is where I was coming from, Chopin. I was just wondering if you were torturing yourself not in the complete service of dealing with your ****, but partly to punish yourself for your perceived wrongdoings. I think there have been times in the past where I have just bogged myself down in flashbacks, like a form of psychological self-injury.

Take good care.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Really. I appreciate you so much.

I get what you're saying about the bigness.

Thanks for saying this to me. It means a lot.

[Chopin99]

Thanks for answering my question, Anne. Yes, I can be self-punishing, but I don't think that's what I am doing this time. It feels different; bad, but different. I have tried containing/compartmentalizing things before, but it has never worked well for me. I have a little too much of the ruminating form of OCD to do it successfully. The only way I can get my mind off things is to do something that requires full sensory attention. I can do simple to moderate tasks and still ruminate at the same time.

You take care too, Anne and thanks for sharing your experience.

[mixedup_emotions]

I really appreciate this thread and I want to come back to it when I'm in a different place. I really struggle with the idea of keeping my "stuff" anywhere other than buried deep inside me....so the idea of it having to come out of me and into another place sounds like an awful process...I'm also not convinced that it would actually fully leave me and be in that container...that some part of it would be left behind and fully regenerate itself. I guess it comes down to not trusting that I can do it.