[elliemay]

My old therapist said that to me once, very forcefully. I could tell he really meant it.

He's right.

Nope, it doesn't belong to me. It simply does not.

Mine tells me that too. But it FEELS like it's mine, still.

[healed84]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Mine tells me that too. But it FEELS like it's mine, still.

Yep.. I know that feeling. And you know what feels so unfair.. I can feeling this feeling of shame, that maybe I shouldn't.. However, to let any good emotion in, like the love people have for me.. I don't feel that at all.

The irony is, that the person in my life who was most abusive has absolutely NO shame about what happened. She thinks it was her RIGHT to do all those things, and I was in the wrong for trying to stop her.

[Anne2.0]

At least one T has said that to me, too, maybe all three of them. Definitely a repeat statement in the support group I was a part of. There was something about sitting in a circle, looking at the others, watching someone absorb these words among the kindness surrounding her, that starts to really loosen and crack that stuff enough to begin to let it ago.

I can imagine such a virtual circle here, and it makes me weepy. But that statement still makes me feel like I'm 10 years old again, stuck in the muck of it all, when there was nothing left to do but take it all on again.

[elliemay]

Why do we insist on owning it? Anne, something happened this week in therapy that made me feel like that child again as well.

Being told she was a liar, and just seeking attention.

It's a compound shame of living it, then not being believed. Then shutting up.

It's not mine. I've got to let it go.

I do not want to be ashamed of who I am.

[stopdog]

The one I see talks about shame a lot but I am not certain it applies to me. I know I am not ashamed about who I am, but from what the therapist I see says, ashamed is different from the shame she is talking about. It is possible I simply do not understand altogether and they are exactly the same.

[Anne2.0]

I had something this week, too. Except it was a lack of respect shown to me by my 11 year old son, compounded by my H assuming things that were not accurate. Now, in the history of disrespect or the possibilities for how 11 year olds can disrespect their mothers, this could intellectually be considered so low on the scale as to not even be registered. And my H and son are really polite and respectful individuals in general, and they love me tons. But it's so Freaking Symbolic.

For me, I get as a matter of intellectual understanding that I had no choice but to take it on as mine when I was a child. Maybe it even gave me a sense of control and power then. I get that I have the choice to let it go now. But today all I can do is throw up my hands and say, "how?"

Maybe that's good enough for now. That, and a mile of rhythmic swimming in the pool. Thanks for being here and talking about this stuff.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

The irony is, that the person in my life who was most abusive has absolutely NO shame about what happened. She thinks it was her RIGHT to do all those things, and I was in the wrong for trying to stop her.

I have such a person in my life. And I have a hard time with that, even though I know it's her problem, not mine anymore.

[unaluna]

It was about the only thing my parents ever said to me. "Aren't you shame?" Even my aunts. I didn't misspell it, their English wasn't that good. So I eventually went too far to the other side, where I let nothing shame me. Then in t, I realized how the family used shame to control me. And now I am trying to develop a healthy sense of shame, or responsibility for my words and actions.

The not being believed thing is huge for me. One of the many reasons marriage counseling was hard for me was because when we were discussing how some aspect of my abusive childhood affected our marriage, the counselor, in response to something I described from my childhood, said that the stuff I described was so bad it was kind of unbelievable.

[stopdog]

MKAC - that would be rough. I hope the mc gave an explanation of what he meant that was not that he did not believe you.

I didn't ask and he didn't say, stopdog. It was at the end and I was already incredibly upset. First time for me to just break down and weep in session.

["Tilly may"]

I am ashamed because somebody did something to me when I was 4 or 5. It was concentual , the act. I knew what was going to be done as I had seen it done to others. I feel shame because it awakened my sexuality and I feel shame and guilt about this sick act that I participated in willingly.

Originally Posted by "Tilly may"

I am ashamed because somebody did something to me when I was 4 or 5. It was concentual , the act. I knew what was going to be done as I had seen it done to others. I feel shame because it awakened my sexuality and I feel shame and guilt about this sick act that I participated in willingly.

There is a reason it is illegal to have sex with small children. They are incapable of consenting. You did NOT consent; you were too young to understand the implications of what was happening.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by elliemay

I could tell he really meant it. He's right.

Mine did too. But she was wrong. What happened to me I don't blame people for; I find excuses for them and try to forgive them; but for my involvement .. it's mine, all right.

I am beginning to doubt that I will ever get past this.

[elliemay]

I remember a poster here, his name was Doctor Muffin. He first introduced me to Brene Brown,

here is another talk of hers that is directly on point.

http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown..._to_shame.html

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by "Tilly may"

I am ashamed because somebody did something to me when I was 4 or 5. It was concentual , the act. I knew what was going to be done as I had seen it done to others. I feel shame because it awakened my sexuality and I feel shame and guilt about this sick act that I participated in willingly.

No. Just no. You assume now that 4-5 year old has your knowledge and capability of thought. She did not. Your abuser manipulated you for their benefit.

Children are sexual beings from birth. Our bodies are designed to respond sexually, independently of our conscious control. There is nothing wrong with that. The only one wrong here is the person who used your natural sexual innocence against you.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by "Tilly may"

I am ashamed because somebody did something to me when I was 4 or 5. It was concentual , the act. I knew what was going to be done as I had seen it done to others.

For what this may be worth, I was around the same age and also feel it was consensual. I never complained to anyone even though it went on for a few years. I know the arguments against it, but they have not yet changed how I really see the situation.

[feralkittymom]

)))stopdog(((

[feralkittymom]

This shame that attaches to sexual response arising from abuse is pernicious. It's soul killing and so very difficult to come to terms with.

And that it is so often used by abusers as "proof" that what they're doing isn't harmful, indoctrinates children to blame and hate themselves.

And it contaminates all further sexual development: feelings and behaviors that are perfectly normal can become inextricably tied to the shame of the abuse.

I wish I had the words that would take that burden away from anyone who struggles with it. I got past it, but I can't really define how. A certain amount of education from my T helped; a lot of time, tears, and gut-wrenching "confessions"; and, mostly, the unwavering respect and acceptance of me by my T. Who I was reflected in his eyes was not who I felt myself to be. Over time, that made all the difference.

[elliemay]

I'm just going to keep watching that Brene Brown video over and over again I think. I may have to quit therapy for awhile.

My therapist - totally inadvertently - invoked a lot of shame in me about speaking about it, telling how I felt.

A lot of old stuff came flooding forward.

I keep bringing forward everything I have to counter it. All the tools in my arsenal, but - oh boy - it's profound.

It's the "liar" scenario being replayed. Sigh.

I hope that I can overcome it. This is something I have to do, I can't rely on therapy to do it - at least not here.

Fall down 7 times, get up 8. Fall down 7 times, get up 8.

[trdleblue]

Originally Posted by "Tilly may"

I am ashamed because somebody did something to me when I was 4 or 5. It was concentual , the act. I knew what was going to be done as I had seen it done to others. I feel shame because it awakened my sexuality and I feel shame and guilt about this sick act that I participated in willingly.

Originally Posted by stopdog

For what this may be worth, I was around the same age and also feel it was consensual. I never complained to anyone even though it went on for a few years. I know the arguments against it, but they have not yet changed how I really see the situation.

This is one of the many cases that I am a hypocrite when it comes to myself. When I read or learn about others, I think of course they are to young to consent, but I don't feel the same for myself. I was about the same age, and I just always get back to the thought that surely I could have stopped it from happening.

As far as shame goes, I don't really have a grasp of what it is. The same comment about the shame not belonging to me was made by the head of the group I'm joining. It doesn't really help me know how to get rid of it though.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by elliemay

My therapist - totally inadvertently - invoked a lot of shame in me about speaking about it, telling how I felt.

A lot of old stuff came flooding forward.

Isn't that progress, to not be avoiding, but to confront it head on?

The fact that you are even having this issue is progress.

Call your T, explain this reaction. He can help.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Isn't that progress, to not be avoiding, but to confront it head on?

The fact that you are even having this issue is progress.

Call your T, explain this reaction. He can help.

I did drop off a note explaining how I felt. I go in for an extra session tomorrow. Whether or not he actually can help will depend on both of us.

This is going to be rough I'm afraid.

I'm on the verge of a total shut down. I do that - run on autopilot. Become perfectly fine.

I can adopt that "fineness" so well, I don't even have access to my feelings. They can just vanish.

Sometimes, that skill is a blessing, sometimes it's a curse.

If I go into shutdown mode, nothing he says or does will get in.

It may be pointless. I don't know.