[rainbow8]

I had to see my DBT T for an individual session because I missed a few group sessions when I was out-of-town. She doesn't think I have BPD! She thinks I have C-PTSD. I know the 2 diagnoses are related. My T isn't into diagnoses and neither am I, but I still don't understand why they think I have these disorders when I don't have the trauma in my background. DBT T said I have attachment problems. I know that. This isn't a big deal but the only one qualified to diagnose was the pdoc and he said I have OCD and Anxiety. He said he wasn't able to determine if I had BPD and could send me to someone else if I wanted to find out. Through the years, 5 different Ts told me I had BPD!

I don't think I have a question. I just continue to wonder why I had a good childhood compared to most people, yet I have all of these diagnoses!

"Complex PTSD is a disorder that develops following exposure to chronic, long-lasting traumatic events that generally involve some form of physical or emotional captivity, such as childhood sexual and/or physical abuse, domestic violence, or being in a prisoner-of-war camp." http://ptsd.about.com/od/glossary/g/CPTSDdef.htm

I've looked at a fair # of websites about this disorder, and based on what you tell us here, you really only have two of the six to ten signs of complex PTSD.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I've looked at a fair # of websites about this disorder, and based on what you tell us here, you really only have two of the six to ten signs of complex PTSD.

Thank you, MKAC. I agree with you. I also never thought I had enough BPD traits to fit that diagnosis, either but BPD seems more fitting than PTSD. My DBT T is a social worker who teaches DBT and also does individual T. Now I wonder why she thinks I have C-PTSD and not BPD. Maybe I present myself as unhealthier than I really am? The pdoc was so certain I NEEDED the zoloft because I've been struggling so much. Sometimes I think they mix me up with someone else.

[Asiablue]

I wonder whether at this stage with so many diagnoses's flying about, maybe it's time to just concentrate on the certain behaviours you want to change rather than putting a label on them? The diagnosis isn't important, you the person is what is important.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I wonder whether at this stage with so many diagnoses's flying about, maybe it's time to just concentrate on the certain behaviours you want to change rather than putting a label on them? The diagnosis isn't important, you the person is what is important.

Thanks! I agree with you. It's just that people are giving me these diagnoses. I never would have gone to a pdoc if my DBT T hadn't told me it would help my "OCD". Now she thinks I have C-PTSD. I like her but I'm not going to think about diagnoses. Fortunately, my T never cared. She just says I have attachment issues but I think she told me that once in 3 years! The only reason maybe it would have been helpful for her to take my BPD diagnosis more seriously is that she would have possibly thought more before letting me hold her hand. She said "touch is healing" back then, and I know it is, but not when you have BPD and think about your T too much.

[Anne2.0]

There has been some discussion before on this board about whether what happened with your brother was CSA or not. I am not going to be debating that, but I believe that most modern perspectives on csa as well as trauma would consider what happened as abusive. Also, there is rsesearch suggesting that premature babies suffer trauma in the ICU, and this might have particularly been true 60 years ago when you were born. But there can only be c-ptsd if there is trauma.

I could see you as having symptoms potentially in all six areas of the disorder. I am not, however, trained in DSM diagnosis. I have worked with traumatized people for all of my professional career and read scads of professional reports that offered this diagnosis, and I believe the diagnostic criteria are really quite nuanced, much more so than what is written as the major symptoms.

I really agree with Asia, though, in terms of the importance of the disorder or diagnosis. I think that you may make more progress working on changing the behaviors that you have already identified and otherwise working on improving your life than you would in responding to a diagnosis.

And, in general, having a more or less rough childhood doesn't necessarily explain why some develop disorders and some don't. Your past is only one piece of your mental health or your psychological disturbance or your general well-being. Just like some people can total their cars or wrap them around trees and walk away with a bruise or two while others are killed, psychological outcomes are not always predictable by childhood experience.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

the only one qualified to diagnose was the pdoc and he said I have OCD and Anxiety. He said he wasn't able to determine if I had BPD and could send me to someone else if I wanted to find out. Through the years, 5 different Ts told me I had BPD!

What do you mean only the pdoc was qualified to diagnose? Therapists are qualified to diagnose psychiatric disorders. They study this in graduate school and do this with their clients routinely. They are often the first professional to make a diagnosis, because they are often the ones to refer to a pdoc. The pdoc makes an independent diagnosis, but will certainly look at what the client comes in with, if that information is provided to them. But especially with a personality disorder, the pdoc is often not the one diagnosing. A personality disorder is often only diagnosed if the clinician has seen the client for a while over time, and gotten to know them well. A pdoc generally sees a client much less frequently than a therapist and doesn't get to know them as well. Many pdocs I know expect the therapist to make the personality disorder diagnosis, if there is one. FWIW, many mental health professionals do not diagnose complex PTSD because it's not in the DSM, so that could be a main reason why you've never heard this before (in relation to yourself).

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I wonder whether at this stage with so many diagnoses's flying about, maybe it's time to just concentrate on the certain behaviours you want to change rather than putting a label on them? The diagnosis isn't important, you the person is what is important.

I definitely agree with this!

[rainbow8]

Thanks, sunrise. I DON'T care about my diagnosis; it's just frustrating to hear different ones coming at me when I didn't even ask for them!

Someone, one of my Ts but I forgot which one, told me that only a pdoc or a medical dr. is qualified to make diagnoses! I always assumed that she had given me correct information. It seems that I was wrong, and she was wrong too. Thank you for correcting my misinformation.

I also didn't think ts where qualified to make diagnoses but this would depend on their level of education and their specialities I presume.
I am sorry you are hearing mixed reports Rainbow
I can't understand how they can mix these up as they are entirely different- although some symptoms may overlap. It is good that you don't care about it because you are rainbow a human being not a disorder. I HATE labels. I have heard that some ts have to diagnose their patients with something because of insurance purposes and it makes my blood boil that there is sooo many wrong labels put on people.

[lostin08]

I think they get caught up on labeling you something for insurance purposes. I think.

[blur]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thanks, sunrise. I DON'T care about my diagnosis; it's just frustrating to hear different ones coming at me when I didn't even ask for them!

Someone, one of my Ts but I forgot which one, told me that only a pdoc or a medical dr. is qualified to make diagnoses! I always assumed that she had given me correct information. It seems that I was wrong, and she was wrong too. Thank you for correcting my misinformation.

rain, it sounds like it's your dbt T that is giving you various diagnoses lately. i think what your regular T tells you is probably more important though, so i wouldn't give what the dbt T says too much weight. she doesn't know you that well yet. i doubt you have complex ptsd from what i've read but i'm certainly not a T so take that for what it's worth. and yes, Ts do diagnosis and i believe they have to for insurance purposes.

i know people feel differently about receiving a diagnosis with some being bothered by it and some relieved. if it bothers you then just let it roll off you what dbt T says. i personally like having an idea of what i'm dealing with so i can figure out how to approach my problems. i feel like it gives me handles to proceed. ymmv.

[emptyspace]

What types of trauma are associated with Complex PTSD?

During long-term traumas, the victim is generally held in a state of captivity, physically or emotionally, according to Dr. Herman. In these situations the victim is under the control of the perpetrator and unable to get away from the danger.
Examples of such traumatic situations include:

• Concentration camps
• Prisoner of War camps
• Prostitution brothels
• Long-term domestic violence
• Long-term child physical abuse
• Long-term child sexual abuse
• Organized child exploitation rings

"The traumatic stress field has adopted the term "Complex Trauma" to describe the experience of MULTIPLE and/OR chronic and prolonged developmentally adverse traumatic events, most often of an interpersonal nature (eg. sexual or physical abuse, war, community violence) AND EARLY-LIFE ONSET."

http://www.traumacenter.org/products...a_Disorder.pdf
http://drkathleenyoung.wordpress.com.../complex-ptsd/


Since you spend so much time on the computer, maybe you should have looked up what situations are associated with Complex-PTSD.

C-PTSD does not exist without chronic, usually severe trauma. Many people suffering from C-PTSD are barely holding on, because their entire concept of trust and feeling safe are shattered. Their entire world view is altered by the abuse they suffered.

I'm holding my tongue any more, but don't start going down your past "I wish I was abused" road.....

[rainbow8]

I DID look it up. This diagnosis was not MY idea. I am not going down any road except wondering where these Ts get their ideas from. I am glad I wasn't abused. I just wish my Ts would not go there. Don't you see I AGREE with you, emptyspace? Now, get back to your studying!

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by emptyspace

What types of trauma are associated with Complex PTSD?

During long-term traumas, the victim is generally held in a state of captivity, physically or emotionally, according to Dr. Herman. In these situations the victim is under the control of the perpetrator and unable to get away from the danger.
Examples of such traumatic situations include:

• Concentration camps
• Prisoner of War camps
• Prostitution brothels
• Long-term domestic violence
• Long-term child physical abuse
• Long-term child sexual abuse
• Organized child exploitation rings

"The traumatic stress field has adopted the term "Complex Trauma" to describe the experience of MULTIPLE and/OR chronic and prolonged developmentally adverse traumatic events, most often of an interpersonal nature (eg. sexual or physical abuse, war, community violence) AND EARLY-LIFE ONSET."

http://www.traumacenter.org/products...a_Disorder.pdf
Complex PTSD | Dr. Kathleen Young: Treating Trauma


Since you spend so much time on the computer, maybe you should have looked up what situations are associated with Complex-PTSD.

C-PTSD does not exist without chronic, usually severe trauma. Many people suffering from C-PTSD are barely holding on, because their entire concept of trust and feeling safe are shattered. Their entire world view is altered by the abuse they suffered.

I'm holding my tongue any more, but don't start going down your past "I wish I was abused" road.....

I have seen therapists who used the label c-ptsd with me and I was never held in prisoner of war camps, concentration camps, or anything else on the list. I think a client can have questions about labels therapists place on them and this forum is a place to talk about it. I don't think the therapist who used the term with me was correct, but still it was the therapist who came up with it. It does not detract from anyone who did endure things on that list.

[adel34]

Hi Rainbow,
I really don't know much about complex PTSD either, though I've heard the term in relation to a friend working with a client she thought had CPTSD and really ended up having DID.
I also don't think you have enough traits to fit the BPDdiagnosis, and I've said that before. And I don't know much about your past so can't comment on the trauma thing. I agree with SD who said someone can likely have this disorder without having gone through the stuff on that list, as I don't think diagnosis are that rigid, and someone can have features of a diagnosis without having the whole thing like you said with your BPD traits.
I agree too with others who say that it's more important to focus on the behaviors you're trying to change than the diagnosis which I know you're doing wonderfully on! I'm sure DBT T was just trying to be helpful, and maybe does have to do it the diagnosis for insurance purposes. (And yes, I know ts can diagnose because we learned about it in abnormal psych).
Emptyspace, I didn't see anyone writing anything about wishing they were abused.

[emptyspace]

Originally Posted by adel34

Hi Rainbow,

Emptyspace, I didn't see anyone writing anything about wishing they were abused.

That is because you were not here when Rainbow upset many people claiming that she "wished she had been abused".... because then she would have a reason for her behaviors.

The impact of me writing it is not the same as the impact it made on the forum at the time, because of how it was said and under what circumstances it was said.

Besides the lack of sensitivity for people who suffered childhood abuse and in a forum where many suffered terribly, it also implied that abused people use the abuse to justify their "unacceptable" behaviors.

It upset alot of folks and the thread was closed.

[emptyspace]

To answer your last question:

You have all these diagnosis because you have been in the mental health system for 18-20 years (?), jumping from therapist to therapist. But instead of doing the work required to utilize therapy to improve your real life, you have spent years struggling with therapists trying to get what you want from them. When the therapist failed, you moved to another therapist.

Instead of using the therapy as a vehicle to change your real-life relationships, you have spent years focusing on getting a therapist (a job) to fulfill your perceived needs. You have not focused on yourself, but focused on you and your T.

Most people want to use therapy to improve their relationships with friends and family and self. Until you give up your fantasy that your T is more than a "job," you will continue to stay in the system. They will continue to make money off you. IT is there job and they are happy to do it.

Beside BPD does not necessarily have anything to do with a poor childhood.

It has to do with how the infant perceives the relationship with the caregiver. If baby cries and mother is too tired to respond, baby could perceive that as abandonment...... No abuse or neglect. The baby's perception of abandonment. The literature is clear on this now.
There are even cases of BPD adults who had colic as babies. Because the caretaker could not soothe them enough, the baby perceived it as "caretaker is not helping me, caretaker is leaving me in pain, caretaker has abandoned me." When in actuality, caretaker might have been holding baby the entire time.... colic is just hard to soothe away...

Your label is because BPD are known to move and quit therapy and be long-term clients.

Most people your age would be looking towards spending as much time and energy with those that love them (grandkids, kids, etc). In the end, those will be the people that remember you and think of you frequently. Your T will fill your spot with someone else and be glad to take their check.

[unaluna]

I'm sorry, but what do you call having a broken finger and no one looking after it; your brother flicking lighted matches at you, and spying on you in the bathroom? That is not playing happy families. That sounds like a setup for cPTSD to me. Or enough to pitch a Lifetime movie about it. You can say it wasn't that bad AFTER you've dealt with your feelings; if you say it wasn't that bad BEFORE, then that's called denial. At least rain has been able to have a normal life - kids, grandkids - in spite of everything. I sure haven't.

[Wren_]

((((Rain)))) it will be interesting to see what your T says about your DBT T's suggestion; reading about it one of the suggestions seems to be DBT to help which is great since you are doing it anyway are you finding it is going well with the DBT?

I wonder if you actually do have attachment problems or what that actually means as far as everyone's attachments with one another; or if it's more that you aren't receiving what you need from current attachments (or learnt how to receive it?) and that's why you have looked for it in your T's. Just thinking about her comment and wondering where she got the complex ptsd from if it was symptom based or from other things you've shared

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

I'm sorry, but what do you call having a broken finger and no one looking after it; your brother flicking lighted matches at you, and spying on you in the bathroom? That is not playing happy families. That sounds like a setup for cPTSD to me. Or enough to pitch a Lifetime movie about it. You can say it wasn't that bad AFTER you've dealt with your feelings; if you say it wasn't that bad BEFORE, then that's called denial. At least rain has been able to have a normal life - kids, grandkids - in spite of everything. I sure haven't.

I don't know, hankster. I thought I dealt with my feelings about my brother, but maybe not. I have a need to tell my T where it hurts, physically and emotionally. Probably to make up for not telling my parents.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by hankster

what do you call having a broken finger and no one looking after it; your brother flicking lighted matches at you, and spying on you in the bathroom? That is not playing happy families.

You can say it wasn't that bad AFTER you've dealt with your feelings; if you say it wasn't that bad BEFORE, then that's called denial.

At least rain has been able to have a normal life - kids, grandkids - in spite of everything.

Additionally Rainbow, a brother who would do these things has a certain development and way of looking at the world > lack of respect for others, lack of empathy, centered on his needs at the expense of others, etc. How did he develop this way? What was he taught and not taught by your parents? His way of interacting affected your family environment not to mention that this same family environment affected him and this same bigger family environment affected you (which parents are in charge of).

About your finger, you learned to not communicate with your parents. To me this means that communication probably didn't occur in your family.

[granite1]

hey rain don't you find it strange and disturbing that a dbt T who hardly knows you would just randomly throw a diagnoses at you like that .i wonder how she came to this conclusion ? i would bother me. i would ask her ware she got the info to come to these conclusions

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by granite1

hey rain don't you find it strange and disturbing that a dbt T who hardly knows you would just randomly throw a diagnoses at you like that .i wonder how she came to this conclusion ? i would bother me. i would ask her ware she got the info to come to these conclusions

She knows me for 6 months and sees me for DBT 2hrs. per week. But I agree with you. It must be from what I say in the group. I see T today and I'll ask her about it. Like I keep saying, it's not such a big deal to me. I just wondered.....

[granite1]

i always thought DBT was about here and now not past stuff. about emotion regulation in the here and now. i have never ever had DBT at all so am just curious. i know this is off subject but was just wondering. do dbt T often lable like that . just asking others that have had dbt.