Can this be considered ....?????

Im not trying to blame the guy, I know I was wrong in leading it on, I guess I did it because I felt bad. I didnt know it would cause all these triggers, I take full blame for this. I just thought he was inconsiderate when he saw me huddled in the corner of the bathroom, that was in no way inviting at all.

What are you taking blame for, specifically?

Sweepy, you asked if it could be considered a sexual assault. In my opinion, the answer to that is no legally and practically speaking. If a man has no indication a woman has changed her mind about what is happening between them, I do not see how that can be in any way a sexual assault. I do see it as being very unfortunate and I am sorry this has happened again to you. I do not think "blame" is appropriate, but certainly it's good to take responsibility for your actions that seem to precipitate this happening to you, and working toward changing those and being able to speak up for yourself.

Sweepy this happened what- like more than a moth ago? You really should tell your T about it.

Im taking blame, because I did not say no, as other posters posted thier oppinions therefore it was consentual.

To clarify, Sweepy, I was basing what I said on your other posts about this, about going along with the kiss and the back rub and then voluntarily putting your head on his shoulder. All of those things, based on what you said, appear to be consensual. The stuff in the bathroom may not have been, but my point was that there was no way for the man to know that.

I know what you mean, no offense taken at anyone giving oppinions, I should have locked bathroom door, I should have said no, I just thought that someone huddled in a corner of a bathroom floor would not be sexually appealing, I was wrong. I have learned.

heres the thing...you can shoulda coulda woulda yourself forever but the reality is (going back to your original question whether its considered abuse) that what is or isnt abuse is different for everyone depending upon their own location, culture, laws where you are, how you feel and what your own treatment providers call it.

heres an example...in my culture no its not abuse and no I nor the the other party would be to blame. it would be called natural. in my culture its believed its ok to comfort someone that may be in physical or mental distress, and in doing so sometimes hormones and a body's natural reactions start reacting. one thing leads to another and ...well Im sure each of us can think of any situation sexual in nature or not when one thing led to another and it didnt turn out the way we expect it to be.

but in NY state law if the situation was as cut and dry as one person not feeling well and another person without being invited in came in and started heating the coals its called being many different terms some with sexual abuse some not related to sexual abuse such as coercion (convincing a person who is obviously not in a place physically or mentally able to consent)

but yet if I was in the culture and country of Iran no it would not be considered abuse because in that country women must do what ever a man tells them to do, they dont have the same freedoms that we have here in the USA of saying no or consenting.

what Im saying is it really doesnt matter whether its abuse here in NY or any other place other than where you are, what your own culture is, what your own religion beliefs are and all that.

Ive read all the posts in this thread and some say yes its abuse and others say maybe you led them on and all kinds of stuff, is anyone wrong no everyone is posting from their own locations rules, ethics, cultures. so you are going to get mixed postings and in the end only you can tell us whether you were abused or consented and only you can tell us whether you are to blame or not based on what happened and whats what in your own location...

that said I suggest maybe talking to your treatment providers, they can help you straighten out whats what according to where you are..

and if it does turn out that you ended up leading yourself into a situation dont be too hard on your self. sometimes abuse survivors consciously or unconsciously end up in the same type of situations that was abuse for them in their childhoods or adult hoods....examples sometimes children that have been abused in one way their minds seek out that same thing because thats what was part of their life, feels comfortable on some levels. another example many women who have been in domestic violence situations continue to go back to their abusers or seek out new relationships where they will end up being abused. sometimes they do this on purpose other times it just keeps happening because thats the way the brain works sometimes for them.

keep working with your treatment providers and hope you feel better soon.

I'm no therapist, but I think you are blaming yourself for too much here. No ones to blame for the actions of others.

Now, what are you blaming yourself for? For being fondled in an inappropriate way or for not standing up for yourself and telling him you weren't into him from the get go?

There are a lot of things that do not seem like they should be sexually appealing, but unfortunately, that does not make them NOT sexually appealing to anyone. Children, for instance, should not be sexually appealing. Yet we all know from the awful stories on this board that this is no protection against the inappropriate touching of children.

I say this, Sweepy, because you seem to be coming at this from the angle of a child. This makes complete sense to me given how triggered you were, and how much like a frightened child you were feeling. And so it seems to me as if you want us to come at this the same way we would if this man had done the same thing to a child -- someone who has no ability or capacity to consent. Even if a child openly says "Yes," that's a "No." If you were a little girl, we would all be saying that yes, this was assault, and we would all be expressing the outrage that maybe you are hoping for from us.

Was what he did gross? Yes. It creeps me out to read about it. No way he didn't know SOMETHING was up with you. Still. When he looked at you, he saw an adult woman. He did not see a helpless child, even though that was how you felt. His expectation was likely that you would say "No" or "Get out" or "Not now" or "I just feel really sick, can you please leave me alone?" Unfortunately, when you ask about assault, you are by default asking us to see it from his perspective -- when it comes to two adults, that is what makes all the difference.

I understand that inside of you, you are always carrying with you a traumatized child. However, people do not see that -- they see an adult woman. If you had been a little girl, this would have been assault, pure and simple. But you are the adult woman who, for better or worse, must find a way to protect this child. Focusing on blame just brings you back to a situation where you are perpetually a child, despite how others see you.

This is one of those incredibly uncomfortable and unfortunate situations where neither party is really to "blame". If you wanted him to stop -- yes, you should have asked him to stop in some way. If he wanted to get frisky -- yes, he should have actually tried to evaluate whether you were on board with it too. But just as people sometimes don't say no when they want someone to stop what they're doing, and instead just crouch in the corner and look upset, sometimes people also just go in for a kiss hoping that the other person will either reciprocate or say otherwise. Neither strategy is particularly good, but neither is particularly uncommon.

I think you need to focus on how this event made you feel, and how much it brought you back to situations where you were truly helpless, and the person abusing you knew darn well you were helpless. This is an awful experience, and I'm very sorry you went through it. I'm hoping you can process it with T. Finding someone to blame will not make it un-happen... but if you find a way to communicate your boundaries even when you're feeling really upset and triggered, it can be a way to turn this into something that will help you in the future.

Whether or not you had any responsibility in this really isn't that important here except perhaps as a learning experience. What you can focus on here is that what happened was truly upsetting and triggering for you, whatever the case. Talk to your therapist about the situation. It sounds like you really need to process the whole incident. Be gentle with yourself and honor your feelings about what happened. Try to put the placement of blame aside and focus on its effects and perhaps the causes. I'm sorry you went through such an upsetting incident. I'm sure it has left you quite shaken.

I think it got confusing in the other thread, as to what people were actually talking about or responding to. You know, sometimes they dont read thru the whole thread, they just read the last couple of posts then chime in.

And hey quit calling people over a certain age bad names! Like "grandfatherly"! We still think of ourselves as young - we forget we have white hair and wrinkles - WE can't see them, we're looking at YOU!

Really, I think your new old friend was just showing that he was still "with" you, that he was there for you, in spite of your being ill, rather than that he was ignoring your being ill for his personal gain. I think you are not used to having someone comfort you at such times? At his age, he is probably more used to being around someone ill.

Hi. I'm pretty new here, I've been reading. I have to speak here though.

First, Sweepy, I am so sorry this happened.

Second: Silence is not consent. Silence is *never* consent. Consent means asking and hearing a "yes".

What he did was assault, because he never even bothered to ask, and making moves on someone who is clearly in distress - without asking - is predatory.

It might not make the criteria of legal assault, but our legal system is as messed up about this issue as the rest of our culture is about sexuality and consent in general.

Take care of yourself, Sweepy, and don't blame yourself too much. No can be hard to say, but no one should EVER pursue contact without a yes.

I definitely think you should bring this up in therapy.

And maybe you and your T could come up with a plan on how you would handle this in the future. Maybe you would discover your anger and push the guy away and say, "No!"

I'm so sorry you felt helpless in that situation and numbed out. It sounds like it caused a flashback and needs to be addressed.

For everything and not saying no in the bathroom.

Sweepy, none of us were there I guess so it is hard to know really. It's not about blame, just wanting to see you protect yourself.

It wasn't meant as an attack. My opinion is only that, and based on the limited picture you show us. Maybe there is something we don't know that is key to this?

I agree, stop blaming yourself. Just accept that it happened and look at what you might do next time something similar appears to be happening. But you should also recognize that although you could have been more upfront, he also made mistakes and did things that were not ok.

Thanks for everyone's opinions this has been a learning experience , I will take everyone's advice into account and work through this in therapy.

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I really feel for you sweeps. I hate that disgusting feeling. It is hellish. I hope your T has some great words of wisdom for you. Good job being brave & talking about this.

Thank you pbutton I told my t today about it and she agreed it was a major trigger for me. I also had a flashback in session and my t grounded me. She did tell me that I most likely regressed in the bathroom momentarily. She also stated that it was inappropriate of him to just walk in to the bathroom and lock the door behind him with the lock once he saw that I was huddled in the corner on the floor and when I told him I did not feel well at the moment that I would feel better that if if was concerned he should have told my friend ( female ) to come in. Not to start fondling me.

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