[rainbow8]

I'm wondering what any of you think of this scenario. I have a friend whose T seems to have interesting boundaries. He invited her and her H, along with some other clients, to a Christmas party at his home, with his extended family there, of course. She and her H attended and had a good time. My friend is now FB friends with her T's wife and one of his children. She says this arrangement works for her.

I met her T briefly. He's very outgoing and warm. He also does group therapy in his home. She's seen him for a few years and has made a lot of progress--says he's wonderful. I think he has strict boundaries in other ways; she doesn't contact him by phone or email out of session, for example. She's not obsessed with him, either. I have to admit I'm jealous of her situation. It's unusual, isn't it, for a T to have this kind of arrangement with clients?

[IndestructibleGirl]

It does sound unusual. I suppose perhaps if she is seeing him for a very clear-cut thing (eg, help quitting smoking, or something) and maybe he chooses to socialize with several similar clients at his discretion and it just works?

I can't think properly tonight so I can't even offer a proper considered opinion on whether I think it's okay or not. But it seems to be working for your friend, so hopefully it continues that way. More than one road leads to Rome.

[rainbow8]

I'm just jealous and I know I shouldn't be. No, she is not in therapy for anything specific; it's just the way that T is. She doesn't live in my state or maybe I would have tried to see him too! Probably it would be disastrous if my T were like that. I'd want more and more. To me, it's just a fantasy to be part of her life and be invited to her home and meet her family. It won't ever happen. Yet it happened to my friend. It is what it is, I guess.

[Elektra_]

lolol he doesnt let her call or email but hangs out as if they were friends? that makes sense lol

[Chopin99]

It is unusual, but consider my own relationship. In December, my T decided to hire me to create her website as she was leaving the practice she was in to start her own practice. At the time she said this would be bordering on a dual relationship. I told her I thought it was a dual relationship. Either way, we agreed the therapeutic relationship came first.

In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about T than I ever thought I would. When meeting with me about the site, she is completely her absent-minded, ADD, non-creative, picky self. She has shared the hurt feelings on both sides of her departure from her prior practice and her vision for her new practice. She has spoken of how tired, stressed, and confused she is. She wondered why she decided to do this at Christmas, when several sequential sets of company stayed with T and H and not one would help with the physical move from old to new office.

Also in the process, I've learned that she is paradoxically vain and self-depreciating. She doesn't understand technology very well. She wants what she wants even when she doesn't know what she wants. She doesn't like aging. Her H gets on her nerves. In other words, she's human.

Do you know how intimate it is to photoshop a person's face? I feel like I know more about her wrinkles than her dermatologist and her teeth than her dentist. We have emailed each other approximately every other day. We texted and spoke on the phone yesterday. While on the phone, I heard her being very sick (weak, little voice, coughing). Friday, she mentioned going to lunch. The lines have blurred.

Is this harmful? I don't think so. In fact, it helps me even more. Here's why:
1. I am far enough along in therapy that I can handle this.
2. I no longer idolize her like I did in the beginning.
3. I am in school to become a T. I now have seen T being a very normal person. So a normal person can be a very effective T.
4. I know I'm relating to a normal person who understands someone dealing with very human issues.
5. I know that a T can effectively minimize negative personal traits for the interest of the client.

So I look forward to the final stages of my therapy journey which will start Wednesday after a four-week break. To each their own as long as nothing illegal or harmful is occurring. Just like doctors, Ts must abide by "do no harm".

[Favorite Jeans]

There's a part of me that wants to say something like "different strokes for different folks" and have an open mind. But, truth be told, I think this is just messed up. My dad has been that kind of T in the past (has on occasion invited clients to our house, had an adolescent client who met with his tutor at our house for eg) and trained under a guy who regularly invited his clients for supper. So I've seen this kind of thing in action though not from a client perspective. It's kind of old school in that the old psychoanalysts didn't have such firm boundaries with their clients (Freud analyzed his daughter, Jung had patients who lived with him etc.) so I think that some people think of it that way. But these things evolved for a reason.

And you know what? It's not cool. It's a dual relationship, it's unprofessional and it jeopardizes client confidentiality. Rainbow you were just saying that it was hard for you to see your T's other clients in the waiting room! Imagine having dinner with a bunch of them at her house. Imagine her tipsy and sharing an inside joke with another client. How could she even really make conversation not knowing what was okay to talk about and what wasn't. What if you got into a political disagreement with her spouse or child? Also: it's all good to share a glass of wine and hang out socially but emailing between sessions is a no-no? WTF???

[rainbow8]

She said it was a BIG party but only one other client was there. Maybe it was an open house. I also think it's weird, but having met the guy, I can imagine it. He was kind of laid back, talked to me like he's known me for years, even though we interacted for about 5 minutes!

I have to put it out of mind because the relationship I have with my own T is good enough for me, and is what I need. If it works for my friend, I'm glad for her. I just found out about it today; I'll be thinking about other things tomorrow, and not obsessing about this, hopefully, LOL.

[Petra5ed]

My opinion, as a non-professional mind you, is that something is askew with that therapist. I would say the majority of T's would view this person as having really bad boundaries. For one, what about client confidentiality? Here's a hypothetical I thought of, a high profile client goes to his party while manically depressed and infected with erotic transference, one of the other party goers happens to know someone close to her and drops the ball that the high profile client is in therapy, a rumor goes around town, the client loses her credibility/job and then has to move because no one else in town will touch her. The scorned client decides to make a complaint with the APA, and or sue. She decides the therapist seduced her into attending the party, and hence it is his fault. At best don't you think the hypothetical T in this situation would look totally incompetent? One of the fundamentals of therapy is supposed to be keeping the relationship professional which means not blurring lines of friendship and client/patient. That doesn't mean T's don't make small talk, that just means that T's don't see you outside of the therapy room itself except in a highly unusual circumstance such as a visit to the hospital to see you after you lose a leg. Throwing a holiday party, unless you mean like a small party during a group counseling session conducted at his house, seems way over the top. He might be an ok T who just maybe is lonely or something, and he does nothing else weird, this is just his thing. So, I'm not saying the T is definitely a bad guy, but I do think having a holiday party at his house is not good therapy.

[Lauliza]

I couldn't agree more with Favorite Jeans. I'd also like to think that if it works then whatever...but in reality it opens so many avenues for confidentiality issues that it makes my head spin. This is reminiscent of the old school analytic style you used to hear about. Marilyn Monroe's analyst had her move in with his family to re-create the family unit she never had as a child... and it did not turn out well. Of course her story is extreme and every case doesn't end badly, but enough do so that strict ethical guidelines have been put in place. These methods were largely abandoned for a reason. It's just got conflict of interest all over it.

[boredporcupine]

I think it is a question of delivering the service you are being paid for.

If you are a licensed clinician, and market yourself as such, and someone comes to see you specifically because of that qualification, it's implied that you are being paid to provide professional clinical services. Along with that goes an expectation of confidentiality and a professional level of care which definitely doesn't include socializing with the client outside of session. I have heard quite a few stories of people whose therapy failed (sometimes spectacularly) as a result of a T with poor boundaries and good intentions. Although it might not be harmful to everyone, it can be harmful enough to some people such that licensing boards decided they can revoke your license for that kind of thing.

On the other hand, there are some T's that may offer "personal coaching" services on the side which are not marketed as therapy or as something designed to treat mental illness, and this kind of service doesn't come with the same expectation of confidentiality or firm boundaries. EDIT: In the case of someone offering both types of services, the client pool for one or the other definitely should NOT overlap.

[RTerroni]

I think that this did cross the line some, it would be one thing if he invited just his clients over, especially if he also did group therapy and wanted to use that to possibly see who of his clients might be interested in doing group therapy, but to have family members there as well I think clearly crosses the line.

[BlessedRhiannon]

Hmmm - I know this type of T would not work for me. I suppose at a large party, it's not really a breach of confidentiality to invite clients, if it's not JUST clients...I mean, if it's friends, family, co-workers, clients...then you wouldn't know who's a client and who isn't. Until someone is asked how they know the T. Then you get in to the awkwardness of either coming up with a lie or saying that you're a client. If it's only clients at the party, then I think it's a distinct lack of confidentiality, as suddenly, all these other folks know you're seeing this T.

I happen to really LIKE the boundaries of the therapy relationship. I pay T for her time and expertise and in exchange, I get time to talk about what is important to me without worrying about the other person. I think if I had a T that invited me over to their house and socialized with me outside of the therapy relationship, it would start to feel too much like a friendship. I'd start to feel obligated to treat the T as more of a friend - listening to their problems, worrying about what I say to them, supporting them as I support my friends.

Perhaps it works for some people, but I think it's not the most professional way to be.

[willowbrook]

Totally unethical violation of Therapist/Patient boundaries that are in place for a very good reason - the safety of both parties, and the ability for the therapeutic process to work as effectively as possible. If my Pdoc invited me to his house like that, I'd be having serious words to him (not that he ever would, he his a consumate professional).

[brillskep]

It's a little walking the line with being FB friends with his wife and child, but that can be done within certain boundaries. Partying with the T and his family doesn't seem ethical. What's interesting here is that this T seems to have some very strict boundaries around what would be normal and sometimes necessary contact out of sessions (phone or email - at least in case of emergency) but does not mind crossing more personal, unnecessary boundaries. I am surprised. I also feel angry, because I got hurt having a closer relationship with someone close to me T, but the situation was just difficult to avoid. It's not (or should not be) difficult for a T just not to invite a client to his family Christmas party. Then again, this is my experience. If this works for her, great for her!

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm wondering what any of you think of this scenario. I have a friend whose T seems to have interesting boundaries. He invited her and her H, along with some other clients, to a Christmas party at his home, with his extended family there, of course. She and her H attended and had a good time. My friend is now FB friends with her T's wife and one of his children. She says this arrangement works for her.

I met her T briefly. He's very outgoing and warm. He also does group therapy in his home. She's seen him for a few years and has made a lot of progress--says he's wonderful. I think he has strict boundaries in other ways; she doesn't contact him by phone or email out of session, for example. She's not obsessed with him, either. I have to admit I'm jealous of her situation. It's unusual, isn't it, for a T to have this kind of arrangement with clients?

[peaches100]

I don't think it's good professional practice. It may work for a very small percentage of clients to have this sort of dual relationship. But I think most clients would be harmed by such an arrangement.

[HealingTimes]

That would freak me OUT!
It's one thing to fantasise about seeing her in a more relaxed setting, entering her house and having dinner with her, but it's an altogether different thing for that fantasy to become a reality.

I think he has incredibly bad boundaries!

[unlockingsanity]

I think the befriending on Facebook is totally out of line. I also think including the children is out of line, unless they are adults perhaps?

However, I don't think that meeting up at a therapists house is necessarily bad. I'd wager a guess that everyone knew ahead of time and could decide for themselves if they wanted to go. Spouses were probably invited so clients didn't have to go alone. If you choose to go, it's not breaking confidentiality. You already know the situation.

A lot of people lack social acquaintances or lack skills to gain friends. If all parties know what is involved, I don't see how that is really a problem. It could be very healing for a lot of people. For those, who wouldn't want to participate, they wouldn't have to go.

A lot of therapists work out of their own home, too, so meeting at their house could be very normal anyway.

The OP mentioned that her friend goes to therapy, not for one specific reason. It could also be that the people this T sees are generally more stable vs. those who are chronically struggling.

I mean, there are a LOT of variants that could be happening here.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Elektra_

lolol he doesnt let her call or email but hangs out as if they were friends? that makes sense lol

I'm not 100% sure about the emails or calls, and that may not be his rule for everyone.

Originally Posted by Chopin99

It is unusual, but consider my own relationship. In December, my T decided to hire me to create her website as she was leaving the practice she was in to start her own practice. At the time she said this would be bordering on a dual relationship. I told her I thought it was a dual relationship. Either way, we agreed the therapeutic relationship came first.

In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about T than I ever thought I would. When meeting with me about the site, she is completely her absent-minded, ADD, non-creative, picky self. She has shared the hurt feelings on both sides of her departure from her prior practice and her vision for her new practice. She has spoken of how tired, stressed, and confused she is. She wondered why she decided to do this at Christmas, when several sequential sets of company stayed with T and H and not one would help with the physical move from old to new office.

Also in the process, I've learned that she is paradoxically vain and self-depreciating. She doesn't understand technology very well. She wants what she wants even when she doesn't know what she wants. She doesn't like aging. Her H gets on her nerves. In other words, she's human.

Do you know how intimate it is to photoshop a person's face? I feel like I know more about her wrinkles than her dermatologist and her teeth than her dentist. We have emailed each other approximately every other day. We texted and spoke on the phone yesterday. While on the phone, I heard her being very sick (weak, little voice, coughing). Friday, she mentioned going to lunch. The lines have blurred.

Is this harmful? I don't think so. In fact, it helps me even more. Here's why:
1. I am far enough along in therapy that I can handle this.
2. I no longer idolize her like I did in the beginning.
3. I am in school to become a T. I now have seen T being a very normal person. So a normal person can be a very effective T.
4. I know I'm relating to a normal person who understands someone dealing with very human issues.
5. I know that a T can effectively minimize negative personal traits for the interest of the client.

So I look forward to the final stages of my therapy journey which will start Wednesday after a four-week break. To each their own as long as nothing illegal or harmful is occurring. Just like doctors, Ts must abide by "do no harm".

I'm glad this seems to be working for you though I think it would not work for most people. You've always had an unusual relationship with your T--that's NOT a criticism--and you've done well with your therapy! Who can argue with that? Good luck with the rest of your therapy and with your career.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

There's a part of me that wants to say something like "different strokes for different folks" and have an open mind. But, truth be told, I think this is just messed up. My dad has been that kind of T in the past (has on occasion invited clients to our house, had an adolescent client who met with his tutor at our house for eg) and trained under a guy who regularly invited his clients for supper. So I've seen this kind of thing in action though not from a client perspective. It's kind of old school in that the old psychoanalysts didn't have such firm boundaries with their clients (Freud analyzed his daughter, Jung had patients who lived with him etc.) so I think that some people think of it that way. But these things evolved for a reason.

And you know what? It's not cool. It's a dual relationship, it's unprofessional and it jeopardizes client confidentiality. Rainbow you were just saying that it was hard for you to see your T's other clients in the waiting room! Imagine having dinner with a bunch of them at her house. Imagine her tipsy and sharing an inside joke with another client. How could she even really make conversation not knowing what was okay to talk about and what wasn't. What if you got into a political disagreement with her spouse or child? Also: it's all good to share a glass of wine and hang out socially but emailing between sessions is a no-no? WTF???

I agree. That's why I wanted a reality check. My friend has told me some other ways her T seems to allow dual relationships, and I was always skeptical. She seems to thrive with this situation, though, and is not overly attached to him. It does seem unethical, though.

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

My opinion, as a non-professional mind you, is that something is askew with that therapist. I would say the majority of T's would view this person as having really bad boundaries. For one, what about client confidentiality? Here's a hypothetical I thought of, a high profile client goes to his party while manically depressed and infected with erotic transference, one of the other party goers happens to know someone close to her and drops the ball that the high profile client is in therapy, a rumor goes around town, the client loses her credibility/job and then has to move because no one else in town will touch her. The scorned client decides to make a complaint with the APA, and or sue. She decides the therapist seduced her into attending the party, and hence it is his fault. At best don't you think the hypothetical T in this situation would look totally incompetent? One of the fundamentals of therapy is supposed to be keeping the relationship professional which means not blurring lines of friendship and client/patient. That doesn't mean T's don't make small talk, that just means that T's don't see you outside of the therapy room itself except in a highly unusual circumstance such as a visit to the hospital to see you after you lose a leg. Throwing a holiday party, unless you mean like a small party during a group counseling session conducted at his house, seems way over the top. He might be an ok T who just maybe is lonely or something, and he does nothing else weird, this is just his thing. So, I'm not saying the T is definitely a bad guy, but I do think having a holiday party at his house is not good therapy.

That's what I thought, and why it bothered me when I heard about it. I think this T is respected, though, and seems to have a large, successful practice. He seemed rather casual when I met him. It's highly unusual, but maybe it works. Yes, it could get rather messy, as you wrote. I may ask her about that.

Originally Posted by amee200

I couldn't agree more with Favorite Jeans. I'd also like to think that if it works then whatever...but in reality it opens so many avenues for confidentiality issues that it makes my head spin. This is reminiscent of the old school analytic style you used to hear about. Marilyn Monroe's analyst had her move in with his family to re-create the family unit she never had as a child... and it did not turn out well. Of course her story is extreme and every case doesn't end badly, but enough do so that strict ethical guidelines have been put in place. These methods were largely abandoned for a reason. It's just got conflict of interest all over it.

Thanks. I agree.

Originally Posted by boredporcupine

I think it is a question of delivering the service you are being paid for.

If you are a licensed clinician, and market yourself as such, and someone comes to see you specifically because of that qualification, it's implied that you are being paid to provide professional clinical services. Along with that goes an expectation of confidentiality and a professional level of care which definitely doesn't include socializing with the client outside of session. I have heard quite a few stories of people whose therapy failed (sometimes spectacularly) as a result of a T with poor boundaries and good intentions. Although it might not be harmful to everyone, it can be harmful enough to some people such that licensing boards decided they can revoke your license for that kind of thing.

On the other hand, there are some T's that may offer "personal coaching" services on the side which are not marketed as therapy or as something designed to treat mental illness, and this kind of service doesn't come with the same expectation of confidentiality or firm boundaries. EDIT: In the case of someone offering both types of services, the client pool for one or the other definitely should NOT overlap.

Thanks. I don't get it, either. I don't know how an ethical T can pull this off!!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by RTerroni

I think that this did cross the line some, it would be one thing if he invited just his clients over, especially if he also did group therapy and wanted to use that to possibly see who of his clients might be interested in doing group therapy, but to have family members there as well I think clearly crosses the line.

I agree with you!

Originally Posted by BlessedRhiannon

Hmmm - I know this type of T would not work for me. I suppose at a large party, it's not really a breach of confidentiality to invite clients, if it's not JUST clients...I mean, if it's friends, family, co-workers, clients...then you wouldn't know who's a client and who isn't. Until someone is asked how they know the T. Then you get in to the awkwardness of either coming up with a lie or saying that you're a client. If it's only clients at the party, then I think it's a distinct lack of confidentiality, as suddenly, all these other folks know you're seeing this T.

I happen to really LIKE the boundaries of the therapy relationship. I pay T for her time and expertise and in exchange, I get time to talk about what is important to me without worrying about the other person. I think if I had a T that invited me over to their house and socialized with me outside of the therapy relationship, it would start to feel too much like a friendship. I'd start to feel obligated to treat the T as more of a friend - listening to their problems, worrying about what I say to them, supporting them as I support my friends.

Perhaps it works for some people, but I think it's not the most professional way to be.

My friend doesn't socialize with her T outside of therapy. It was just this one party, but I agree that it is unprofessional.

Originally Posted by willowbrook

Totally unethical violation of Therapist/Patient boundaries that are in place for a very good reason - the safety of both parties, and the ability for the therapeutic process to work as effectively as possible. If my Pdoc invited me to his house like that, I'd be having serious words to him (not that he ever would, he his a consumate professional).

Thanks. I agree.

Originally Posted by brillskep

It's a little walking the line with being FB friends with his wife and child, but that can be done within certain boundaries. Partying with the T and his family doesn't seem ethical. What's interesting here is that this T seems to have some very strict boundaries around what would be normal and sometimes necessary contact out of sessions (phone or email - at least in case of emergency) but does not mind crossing more personal, unnecessary boundaries. I am surprised. I also feel angry, because I got hurt having a closer relationship with someone close to me T, but the situation was just difficult to avoid. It's not (or should not be) difficult for a T just not to invite a client to his family Christmas party. Then again, this is my experience. If this works for her, great for her!

I think he has good boundaries in other areas. I don't think he bans email and calls totally; I'm not sure about that, but I'm sure about this party. It's weird.

Originally Posted by peaches100

I don't think it's good professional practice. It may work for a very small percentage of clients to have this sort of dual relationship. But I think most clients would be harmed by such an arrangement.

I agree, Peaches.

Originally Posted by HealingTimes

That would freak me OUT!
It's one thing to fantasise about seeing her in a more relaxed setting, entering her house and having dinner with her, but it's an altogether different thing for that fantasy to become a reality.

I think he has incredibly bad boundaries!

Me, too. I'm going to ask her more about that party and if she thinks it is unprofessional to have clients and family together. Yeah, I fantasize about being with my T in her home with her family--but it's only a fantasy! My friend had it for the reality!

Originally Posted by unlockingsanity

I think the befriending on Facebook is totally out of line. I also think including the children is out of line, unless they are adults perhaps?

However, I don't think that meeting up at a therapists house is necessarily bad. I'd wager a guess that everyone knew ahead of time and could decide for themselves if they wanted to go. Spouses were probably invited so clients didn't have to go alone. If you choose to go, it's not breaking confidentiality. You already know the situation.

A lot of people lack social acquaintances or lack skills to gain friends. If all parties know what is involved, I don't see how that is really a problem. It could be very healing for a lot of people. For those, who wouldn't want to participate, they wouldn't have to go.

A lot of therapists work out of their own home, too, so meeting at their house could be very normal anyway.

The OP mentioned that her friend goes to therapy, not for one specific reason. It could also be that the people this T sees are generally more stable vs. those who are chronically struggling.

I mean, there are a LOT of variants that could be happening here.

Yes, I'm not talking about a child, but an adult or maybe young adult, I don't know. I wonder about FB too. Seems weird. I'm sure the clients knew ahead of time about the party and who was invited. It still seems like a fantasy to me. Maybe I'm interested because I wonder IF I could have been invited to my T's house and gotten a tour, would it lessen my need to feel I had to drive by it? There's no urge to "find out stuff about a T" if you KNOW. But I would sure feel VERY uncomfortable to be at a party with her friends and relatives. I'd feel like an outsider. Yuk! I guess my friend can handle it.

[brillskep]

That is wonderful. When I started reading about your arrangement with your T, I immediately thought boundary violations and that this was not right. But as I read on ... I really, really relate to this. I also loved your conclusions, especially numbers 3 to 5. You've given me some food for thought and 5 is very reassuring to me as a beginning T. Thank you for that. I have also learned a lot from profession-related dual relationships with my T (mine just don't involve any hiring).

Originally Posted by Chopin99

It is unusual, but consider my own relationship. In December, my T decided to hire me to create her website as she was leaving the practice she was in to start her own practice. At the time she said this would be bordering on a dual relationship. I told her I thought it was a dual relationship. Either way, we agreed the therapeutic relationship came first.

In the last 3 weeks, I have learned more about T than I ever thought I would. When meeting with me about the site, she is completely her absent-minded, ADD, non-creative, picky self. She has shared the hurt feelings on both sides of her departure from her prior practice and her vision for her new practice. She has spoken of how tired, stressed, and confused she is. She wondered why she decided to do this at Christmas, when several sequential sets of company stayed with T and H and not one would help with the physical move from old to new office.

Also in the process, I've learned that she is paradoxically vain and self-depreciating. She doesn't understand technology very well. She wants what she wants even when she doesn't know what she wants. She doesn't like aging. Her H gets on her nerves. In other words, she's human.

Do you know how intimate it is to photoshop a person's face? I feel like I know more about her wrinkles than her dermatologist and her teeth than her dentist. We have emailed each other approximately every other day. We texted and spoke on the phone yesterday. While on the phone, I heard her being very sick (weak, little voice, coughing). Friday, she mentioned going to lunch. The lines have blurred.

Is this harmful? I don't think so. In fact, it helps me even more. Here's why:
1. I am far enough along in therapy that I can handle this.
2. I no longer idolize her like I did in the beginning.
3. I am in school to become a T. I now have seen T being a very normal person. So a normal person can be a very effective T.
4. I know I'm relating to a normal person who understands someone dealing with very human issues.
5. I know that a T can effectively minimize negative personal traits for the interest of the client.

So I look forward to the final stages of my therapy journey which will start Wednesday after a four-week break. To each their own as long as nothing illegal or harmful is occurring. Just like doctors, Ts must abide by "do no harm".

[jacq10]

Not cool. I use to work for a T who did stuff like this, and she was suuuuuper unethical in other areas as well. I know that she used her "power" being the T to make herself feel good, and she did this by socializing with her clients (like having a party and inviting them), and things ended really poorly in some cases.

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by brillskep

That is wonderful. When I started reading about your arrangement with your T, I immediately thought boundary violations and that this was not right. But as I read on ... I really, really relate to this. I also loved your conclusions, especially numbers 3 to 5. You've given me some food for thought and 5 is very reassuring to me as a beginning T. Thank you for that. I have also learned a lot from profession-related dual relationships with my T (mine just don't involve any hiring).

Thanks for this! I guess it's not "hiring" per se; I agreed to do her website and she is going to pay me when I'm done. As Rainbow said, I have always had an unusual relationship with this T, but it has worked. Either she's a bad T and got lucky with me or she is a brilliant one that realized what I needed and was willing to deliver. I hope that she will mentor me as I'm in school, but I'm taking it a day at a time right now.

[MASIMO]

Wow, I wonder if being invited to T private party, seeing the RL person, interacting with his SO and friends, wouldn't be exactly what i need to get me over my transference issues. what a great idea!
But realistically the only way I would go to a party would be a party of two. Sorry for the sarcasm, but i think this situation is way out of bounds, and is putting the client in a harmful situation.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by MASIMO

Wow, I wonder if being invited to T private party, seeing the RL person, interacting with his SO and friends, wouldn't be exactly what i need to get me over my transference issues. what a great idea!

My t described the menu for a party he had, which was basically cream cheese three different ways, and i was like, omg if i was with this guy, i would never poop again!! That pretty much opened my eyes!

At first glance, it seems inappropriate. But I think most boundaries depend on the patient and therapist (I just posted an article about this). My former T went to a patient's wedding before. He's told me some other things too, but I don't want to post all the details here.

I think it could be reasonable with a patient with no childhood issues and a certain type of therapist. One of my first therapists long ago was more like a friend to me. Back then, I didn't know about boundaries, but it would have seemed perfectly normal for me to go to lunch with her, for example.

We all don't know the whole story, as everyone here must realize, but do you think your friend might be exaggerating in some way? Maybe her mind created this fantasy as a way to deal with the perceived rejection she might feel if her therapist does not allow outside contact? Just a thought that crossed my mind...