I am going to be open about the fact that I really just need to whine and really don't need anyone to yell at me or tell me I'm unreasonable or whatever. I know and freely acknowledge that I am being whiny and unreasonable and whatever. Just need a place to vent. This is a giant long book of a post anyway.

I had to discuss finances with my T today. I mentioned having to go to every other week due to finances and he said that was fine. So that hurt my feelings that he was so ready to go to every other week and wasn't really affected by it. Which is stupid, I know. We had a long discussion about my feelings around just being part of his job and how I KNOW the boundaries and I KNOW it isn't personal that he holds the boundaries, but it is still painful. He talked a lot about how I personalize the choices other people make to mean that I am inadequate, not good enough, etc.

We had previously discussed that he doesn't take any insurance except one company, which I ASSUMED was not the company through which I have coverage because it's kind of a weird one that is totally crap anyway. Then, as we talked, it turned out my insurance company is the only one he actually takes still. He is one their list from some previous employer. His contract rate with them is almost half what I pay. We start that next time. I said, "wow, that sucks for you," and he said, "yeah, it does."

So two things, one, he thinks it sucks to make that little, and two, he will take a significantly lower rate from people on this insurance, but wasn't going to offer me the lower amount as a rate. So. However, I am not supposed to take it personally that I am a client and only see him for so long as I can afford it. As he said, it isn't personal just against me or something -- it's all his clients, and I am just not an exception. I knew that. I know that. I should just hold it more firmly in mind so I don't get surprised by the pain this way.

I understand it is not personal from his end, but it sure feels that way from mine. Perhaps not so personal to him because he is not really considering me as a person in making his choices. He had already made them before I met him, but certainly they affect me and apply to me regardless of how I feel or think about them.

As I said, just whining. I am dealing with 'real' issues in addition to this and cannot seem to stop crying today so please wait until tomorrow at least to jump on me, please.

[msxyz]

You know, I think that would bother me as much as it bothers you.

[HazelGirl]

I totally understand how that would be very difficult to handle, especially because you have to see him less because of your finances.

In order to accept insurance, many T's have to agree with the rate set by the insurance company. He doesn't want to be paid that amount, but he is forced to if he wants to accept any insurance at all. $70 is extremely low for a T in private practice. Most cannot afford to keep their business charging only $70 for all their patients. And unfortunately, he has to charge more to his out-of-pocket patients to make up for it. It sucks, but it's how the insurance companies force them to do things.

I know you didn't ask for advice, but I hope that helps a little bit.

I know, HazelGirl. I know his wife doesn't work and they have a son in college and their daughter starts college the year after next. I KNOW that he needs to make a living. However, I had let myself believe him when he talked about how much he really cares about me as a person and it's not just business, and blah blah blah, and therefore was surprised there was a lower rate available, that he had not mentioned or been willing to offer.

[AmysJourney]

I am sorry, MKAC. That must have really hurt and I can only imagine how it made you feel. I am sorry you are struggling so much in your RL and this must just feel like the tip of the iceberg to make the emotions flood over.
I just want to offer you a virtual hug and much love from here and tell you I am sorry you feel so bad. You were so kind and sweet to me the other day, you don't deserve to struggle so much.

Much much Love,
Amelia

MKAC...

so in the end you dont have to reduce the frequency of sessions?

[CantExplain]

This may be out of line, but...

Could you give him something extra on top of what he gets from insurance?

Or see him fortnightly on insurance and fortnightly at your own expense, thus making it weekly?

[feralkittymom]

I swear even the best Ts when it comes to fees/payment, they all get squirrelly. And I really do feel that in many cases the "it's not personal" justification is just a mask for their own deep discomfort and protection of their self-image as a "care-giver" at odds with charging a fee for their services. It's understandable, and not rational, but it IS personal for them AND the client and I wish they'd just OWN it.

Originally Posted by Readytostop

MKAC...

so in the end you dont have to reduce the frequency of sessions?

Right. At full price, I could only see him every other week. At almost half the amount, I can see him weekly. He makes slightly more than if I went every other week, but "has" to see me every week.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

This may be out of line, but...

Could you give him something extra on top of what he gets from insurance?

Or see him fortnightly on insurance and fortnightly at your own expense, thus making it weekly?

Insurance doesn't actually PAY ANYTHING, CE. I have such a large deductible, I have never reached it. So, I would be paying out of pocket for every session, just at less than his usual rate. So, he makes slightly more for the month going through insurance versus seeing me every other week. It just takes up a slot fortnightly that would pay full price.

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I swear even the best Ts when it comes to fees/payment, they all get squirrelly. And I really do feel that in many cases the "it's not personal" justification is just a mask for their own deep discomfort and protection of their self-image as a "care-giver" at odds with charging a fee for their services. It's understandable, and not rational, but it IS personal for them AND the client and I wish they'd just OWN it.

Yeah. He has been awesome about owing his own stuff in other situations. In my own professional life, I know I have clients I give deep discounts to because I like them so much and otherwise they would be without representation. When I cannot or do not wish to, I own that it's my decision and explain why I'm worth what I charge. One client even brought up that he knew that I had not made a different client pay. I acknowledged that was true and explained the reasons. I'm not shy about saying, yeah, you're an asshole and she is super nice.

Originally Posted by AmysJourney

I am sorry, MKAC. That must have really hurt and I can only imagine how it made you feel. I am sorry you are struggling so much in your RL and this must just feel like the tip of the iceberg to make the emotions flood over.
I just want to offer you a virtual hug and much love from here and tell you I am sorry you feel so bad. You were so kind and sweet to me the other day, you don't deserve to struggle so much.

Much much Love,
Amelia

Thank you so much. Your response has me all choked up.

I know it does really hurt when we are confronted with the I care vs I need to be paid part of our Ts... I hope you can find a way to accept it without thinking you are somehow "less"....

But I am so happy for you that you dont have to see him less often and dont have the $ issues or mil hanging over your head.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

This may be out of line, but...

Could you give him something extra on top of what he gets from insurance?

Or see him fortnightly on insurance and fortnightly at your own expense, thus making it weekly?

They are not allowed to accept more than what the the insurance company says.

[Wren_]

((((MKAC))))
nothing you wrote sounds unreasonable to me ...
yes, as you wrote ... logically what he said might make sense and isn't personal ...
but personally, it sucks and it hurts ... and financial stuff is just so .... i don't even have the words to describe it properly, but so very difficult on so many levels when it gets in the way of our therapy; and when a T doesn't "get it" or give the words to help... it hurts all the more

[LaborIntensive]

Perhaps you tip him?

[stopdog]

I am sorry to hear he did not offer.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

and therefore was surprised there was a lower rate available, that he had not mentioned or been willing to offer.

did he know you were on this insurance?

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I swear even the best Ts when it comes to fees/payment, they all get squirrelly. And I really do feel that in many cases the "it's not personal" justification is just a mask for their own deep discomfort and protection of their self-image as a "care-giver" at odds with charging a fee for their services. It's understandable, and not rational, but it IS personal for them AND the client and I wish they'd just OWN it.

i agree with this, for sure.

i'm sorry MKAC, i would probably be hurt by this too. money stuff sucks in general, and especially in regards to therapy.

[Favorite Jeans]

I don't fully understand the details of how the insurance thing works but it sounds like a really complicated, difficult situation. I don't think you're being whiny at all. I would be extremely upset too. I'd be hurt and feel like I didn't matter that much to T, even as I recognize that the feeling might not be 100% reasonable. It's such an incredibly personal relationship, it's hard not to take everything about it personally.

I also feel that my T doesn't handle money and payment issues nearly as deftly as she handles the other issues that come between us. It's not that she handles it badly but that she has so much skill in other areas that her slight weirdness about money issues is glaring.

I hope this feels less raw and upsetting in the next few weeks. Is there a way (or would you want to) block off that hour on your non-therapy weeks for something special? Like sitting quietly at a cafe with or without a journal, or meeting a friend or going for a walk someplace you like? The challenge is always to as strict about taking that hour as you'd be about going to therapy.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

They are not allowed to accept more than what the the insurance company says.

So the only benefit of MKAC's insurance is that it forces her T to give her a discount? Why would a T sign up for that?

[BonnieJean]

MKAC - I can definitely see why this would be upsetting. You'd think he'd offer you the insurance rate for awhile so you could keep up your treatment. You're not a fly by night client. You've been working with him for some time now. Annoying.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

So the only benefit of MKAC's insurance is that it forces her T to give her a discount? Why would a T sign up for that?

Yep. Typically T's only do it to get more clients. My T doesn't need to but just hasn't unsigned up for this insurance company yet. Probably because it is a rinky dink crappy company that no one has and it has not come up for him in a while. He did also say he did not know how much longer he would continue to take it. I just don't want him to resent me using the insurance rate. I already feel totally inadequate and like a total loser anyway.

[ListenMoreTalkLess]

Could be wrong about this . . . but I am thinking two things:

1) What would it feel like if he WERE to give you a "special" rate and were not just following the rules that he has for his financial empire for all clients? Would it be possible that you would feel like you then owed him something, and that might be super squicky because that models a dynamic from somewhere in your past?

2) You are such an incredibly competent person and it has always sounded like you are also a competent professional as a lawyer. To offer a lower rate to someone can imply that said competent/well respected professional is not so much. Perhaps he worries that it would feel insulting to offer you a lower rate.

Oops, now I have three things. My social life is full of professionals, and what people charge and whether they do any pro bono or partially pro bono work is very individual. But I do think it ultimately boils down to the professional, not the client. I really respect those who do reduced and no fee cases of all kinds. But I also respect professionals who never do, because I think they value themselves and their time appropriately. Short version of this point, one I think you know-- this fee issue is about him, not you.

[likelife]

I'm sorry, MKAC. The money stuff really sucks sometimes.

My husband and I just had to stop seeing our couples T because, despite looking like he's in network, he's actually not. He didn't offer a lower fee either.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I am going to be open about the fact that I really just need to whine and really don't need anyone to yell at me or tell me I'm unreasonable or whatever. I know and freely acknowledge that I am being whiny and unreasonable and whatever. Just need a place to vent. This is a giant long book of a post anyway.

I had to discuss finances with my T today. I mentioned having to go to every other week due to finances and he said that was fine. So that hurt my feelings that he was so ready to go to every other week and wasn't really affected by it. Which is stupid, I know. We had a long discussion about my feelings around just being part of his job and how I KNOW the boundaries and I KNOW it isn't personal that he holds the boundaries, but it is still painful. He talked a lot about how I personalize the choices other people make to mean that I am inadequate, not good enough, etc.

We had previously discussed that he doesn't take any insurance except one company, which I ASSUMED was not the company through which I have coverage because it's kind of a weird one that is totally crap anyway. Then, as we talked, it turned out my insurance company is the only one he actually takes still. He is one their list from some previous employer. His contract rate with them is almost half what I pay. We start that next time. I said, "wow, that sucks for you," and he said, "yeah, it does."

So two things, one, he thinks it sucks to make that little, and two, he will take a significantly lower rate from people on this insurance, but wasn't going to offer me the lower amount as a rate. So. However, I am not supposed to take it personally that I am a client and only see him for so long as I can afford it. As he said, it isn't personal just against me or something -- it's all his clients, and I am just not an exception. I knew that. I know that. I should just hold it more firmly in mind so I don't get surprised by the pain this way.

I understand it is not personal from his end, but it sure feels that way from mine. Perhaps not so personal to him because he is not really considering me as a person in making his choices. He had already made them before I met him, but certainly they affect me and apply to me regardless of how I feel or think about them.

As I said, just whining. I am dealing with 'real' issues in addition to this and cannot seem to stop crying today so please wait until tomorrow at least to jump on me, please.

OMG, I want to smack your therapist. He sounds like he's being an oaf about this issue. Of course he should offer you the insurance rate, of course he should worry about how you'll do in between sessions. AWE! I am sorry.

The only thing I'm going to argue about with you is saying you're just whining and this isn't a real issue. It is a real issue, I don't think you're taking it 'too' personally, and I'm glad you came to vent.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Yep. Typically T's only do it to get more clients. My T doesn't need to but just hasn't unsigned up for this insurance company yet. Probably because it is a rinky dink crappy company that no one has and it has not come up for him in a while. He did also say he did not know how much longer he would continue to take it. I just don't want him to resent me using the insurance rate. I already feel totally inadequate and like a total loser anyway.

You are not a total loser. You are one of the people I most respect.

[elliemay]

this whole thing would bother me too. It's therapy, it's relationship, it's a business. It's can be all so confusing and hurtful.

I wish there was a way to make it easier, but I certainly haven't found it yet.

Take care.