Do you think a client can do therapy without talking about transference or the relationship with the T?

Do you think a T should ignore these elements of therapy?

I would assume CBT tends to be less likely to deal with these things?
....but is anyone ignoring these things in their therapy?

My T has always said he is extremely interested in my thoughts and reactions in regard to him, I think therapy works that way. But some of the wiser and more well-read posters might give some light.

[healed84]

T and I have never talked about transference and think my therapy and our therapeutic relationship is just fine.

I am sure there has been some transference going on.. Probably my fear of T "going away" now since I have shared some much with him is some transference in away. He just reassures me that that is not going to be the case, but never have used transference.

I think it may be more important to talk about when there is romantic or erotic, or wanting Ts to be our mothers or fathers. Those are strong feelings and aren't always roles that T can fulfill and would be important to talk about where those feelings come from and how to work past them.

[growlithing]

Yes, but not because my T thinks it is a good idea. I've been aggressively avoiding talking about that for years. She seems to think it's really important though. Idk. I will tell her eventually. I just need to figure out how to talk to her about it without being scared.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

Do you think a client can do therapy without talking about transference or the relationship with the T?

Do you think a T should ignore these elements of therapy?

I would assume CBT tends to be less likely to deal with these things?
....but is anyone ignoring these things in their therapy?

I never had any transference issues with any of my Ts (I think I've had 4 over a span of a few decades) except the one that encouraged me to lower the boundaries. And I didn't explore the issue with the one when it happened, because she didn't recognize it and so wouldn't talk about it.

[Favorite Jeans]

I'm sure you can do many kinds of therapy and have it be helpful in any number of different ways. But if you're in it for any kind of longer haul... Well, it seems like not talking about the relationship becomes avoiding talking about what is likely to be a very significant part of your life. How you feel about therapy, how you react to your therapist, how much trust you have in her --all those things are important because they give you a lot of information about how you are in relationships in general. Your ability to point out vulnerabilities and misattunements is key to the success of your therapy, otherwise how can your therapist be optimally helpful? And how can you do that without talking about the relationship?
For me, the relationship itself, the calm and accepting demeanour of my T, have been at least as important to my healing as any of the topics we've addressed.

If the T is ignoring those elements or not facilitating that discussion what is the client supposed to make of that silence? It could be awkward after awhile, no? I think the T checking in about that gives you permission to explore your feelings about them, about the therapeutic process and about your feelings in general. Without that element, IMHO, you're missing out on the depth and richness of the experience.

Transference has never even come up within any of my T's and they've all been slightly different in their orientation. I really don't have transference issues with my T's that I've been aware of. I have no problem having secure attachments with others, and despite all the abuse in my background, the abuse wasn't at the hands of direct relatives. I grew up with a very secure family, was nurtured and supported. I'm guessing those kinds of factors have allowed me to just be in therapy with my therapists and they've remained my therapists in my mind. That's not to say we aren't "attached"; we very much are, but I've never seen it as anything other than a very healthy, supportive, helpful, learning relationship.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

But if you're in it for any kind of longer haul... Well, it seems like not talking about the relationship becomes avoiding talking about what is likely to be a very significant part of your life. How you feel about therapy, how you react to your therapist, how much trust you have in her --all those things are important because they give you a lot of information about how you are in relationships in general. Your ability to point out vulnerabilities and misattunements is key to the success of your therapy, otherwise how can your therapist be optimally helpful? And how can you do that without talking about the relationship?
For me, the relationship itself, the calm and accepting demeanour of my T, have been at least as important to my healing as any of the topics we've addressed.

If the T is ignoring those elements or not facilitating that discussion what is the client supposed to make of that silence? It could be awkward after awhile, no? I think the T checking in about that gives you permission to explore your feelings about them, about the therapeutic process and about your feelings in general. Without that element, IMHO, you're missing out on the depth and richness of the experience.

I really disagree when you say "you're missing out on the depth of the experience". I don't go to therapy to talk about my relationship with my therapist. I work on my real world relationships with my husband, sons, parents, family, etc. I don't need my T relationship to serve as a go-between for my work on my relationships in life. I can do that quite directly. I can see the need for some to learn about relationship through working through transference for the therapist, but not everyone needs that middle man (for lack of a better phrase at this moment -- I'm slightly brain dead right now). That doesn't lessen the depth of my therapy experience in any way.

But transference is an everyday experience. We all experience it in all of our relationships.

It does not have to be "parental or sexual" which are the most common in therapy ... it could be "i feel misunderstood" or "i'm afraid you will leave" and hence we respond accordingly.

[stopdog]

That woman and I have not talked about transference. Early on she would go on more about attachment, but that has not come up in a year or so. I think I finally pushed her back enough that she got off that track.

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

But transference is an everyday experience. We all experience it in all of our relationships.

It does not have to be "parental or sexual" which are the most common in therapy ... it could be "i feel misunderstood" or "i'm afraid you will leave" and hence we respond accordingly.

Eh, maybe. i'm not really convinced I transfer feelings about my childhood, etc. onto/into every relationship I deal with every day. I know some believe we do, but I don't particularly see that.

I do think I deal with transference at times within my relationships; I know my husband certainly does this quite blatantly. But the question was about transference with the therapist, and I just haven't run into it personally with any of my therapists.

[feralkittymom]

I think it's mostly about early deficits and needs. The stronger and deeper they are, the more likely transferences are, and the more helpful working them through can be.

I definitely experienced a parental transference with my T, and he also experienced a strong parental counter transference. It wasn't problematic, nor invisible: I became conscious of it very early on, and he worked within a modality that encouraged examination of the transference. Even when our work focussed very cognitively, the transference was a part of that. Being able to work with the transference allowed the past issues with my FOO to be examined with much more clarity and vividness in the moment.

It was the resolving of the transference which allowed me to heal emotionally as well as cognitively. Making the intellectual leaps was easy for me, but didn't change my deepest felt sense of myself--it was the transference that made that possible.

Resolving (by which I mean not just that the feelings faded or magically slipped away or were understood intellectually, but rather were developed fully and experienced completely) the transference is also what makes it possible for both of us to accept the parental connectedness beyond therapy. Because I "grew up" through the transference, and he could support and accept my growth, we can remain connected as Father/adult daughter/friend, and that attachment is very rewarding for both of us.

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I think it's mostly about early deficits and needs. The stronger and deeper they are, the more likely transferences are, and the more helpful working them through can

That's been my take on it.

[Bill3]

Resolving (by which I mean not just that the feelings faded or magically slipped away or were understood intellectually, but rather were developed fully and experienced completely) the transference is also what makes it possible for both of us to accept the parental connectedness beyond therapy.

Could you please say a little more about how the feelings were developed fully and experienced completely?

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

That's been my take on it.

If you didn't have those needs developmentally, there'd be no transference to express. By the same token, once transferences have been fully experienced and resolved, they don't express themselves anymore in other relationships--there's just no longer an unfulfilled need--and that's what's so deeply freeing.

[~EnlightenMe~]

Okay, so transference happens, parental transference, which I think T and I deal with a lot -- trust issues, etc. Do other types of transferences need to be discussed if it doesn't enter the room? Like, if things more or less happens like that as a result of feeling too far away and disconnected, but it doesn't happen often? Today, I felt halfway decent and wore a sleeveless shirt since it was so hot outside (I generally wear a sweatshirt), plus I had somewhere else to go. (I generally dress like this at work/home, etc) But this meant that I was feeling connected enough to trust him, more like in a parental role, it had nothing to do with erotic transference, quite the opposite. It's all so confusing, the torrential transferences. Today I told T I felt like not leaving and sitting under his desk (he was sitting away from it). He said that sounded like my child part, and then I left and I still feel kind of empty. lol I wonder if that part of me is still sitting there, now in the dark?

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

If you didn't have those needs developmentally, there'd be no transference to express. By the same token, once transferences have been fully experienced and resolved, they don't express themselves anymore in other relationships--there's just no longer an unfulfilled need--and that's what's so deeply freeing.

Yeah, mine is probably an odd situation as far as my abuse goes vs. my very stable family life. I realize that. I suspect I would not be nearly as intact or even alive if it wasn't for the security of my family. What happened to me was very removed from my family life, and that may be what has saved me.

I was very fortunate after my assaults and rapes to return to an intact family that I knew loved me, that I had great trust in, and that I knew would always be a place of security for me. They weren't perfect by any means, but they were about as close to always doing the right thing by their children as they possibly could, and that was plenty for me. My developmental needs for safety and love and trust stayed intact despite what the neighbors across the way did to me.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Could you please say a little more about how the feelings were developed fully and experienced completely?

Well, it took a long time! For me it was a slow process, painstaking at times. It involved being willing to recognize cognitively and feel emotionally and express during sessions all those thoughts and feelings in the moment. It was crucial to not shut down or avoid. I couldn't even begin to do that until after a couple of years, when the dissociation was under control.

It involved, at times, a certain amount of regression--though my T kept that to a minimum by switching to a more cognitive focus as needed. It required of me to be committed to being as open and honest as possible, but what made that possible was the trust I already had in my T and his demeanor--very calm and accepting.

I never feared his reaction to any feeling or thought or judgement I expressed (and there were times when I was quite unfair to him ); my self-condemnation was a much bigger challenge. For me, the resolution of the transference was a very conscious process. It wasn't about being swept away, losing touch, dissociating, feeling out of control--those things may happen as the transference develops, but I suspect resolution isn't possible until that peak is past.

Probably resolving the transference was a focus of 2/3 of the years in therapy. It provided a frame through which to process FOO memories. I had done a good bit of that in the first 2-3 years, but revisiting those thoughts and feelings within the context of the spontaneous thoughts and feelings in the T relationship of the moment seemed to be what deeply integrated those experiences.

Before that I had viewed those memories as painful but distant (maybe because I was so often dissociated during the events? or maybe that's a necessary step in the process), and while it helped cognitively and, to some extent, cathartically by being heard and validated, it didn't really defuse the pain of those experiences. It was almost like they belonged to a different self, and I couldn't get close enough to them to defuse them. Like the pain could reach me, but I couldn't reach it. Somehow, those feelings had to be brought into the present to play out in real time in the room in the T relationship to lose their power to hurt me. I think that may be the reparative part of therapy. It allowed my T to respond directly to pain in a way no one had at the time. It changed the experiences, and so changed me.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

Okay, so transference happens, parental transference, which I think T and I deal with a lot -- trust issues, etc. Do other types of transferences need to be discussed if it doesn't enter the room? Like, if things more or less happens like that as a result of feeling too far away and disconnected, but it doesn't happen often? Today, I felt halfway decent and wore a sleeveless shirt since it was so hot outside (I generally wear a sweatshirt), plus I had somewhere else to go. (I generally dress like this at work/home, etc) But this meant that I was feeling connected enough to trust him, more like in a parental role, it had nothing to do with erotic transference, quite the opposite. It's all so confusing, the torrential transferences. Today I told T I felt like not leaving and sitting under his desk (he was sitting away from it). He said that sounded like my child part, and then I left and I still feel kind of empty. lol I wonder if that part of me is still sitting there, now in the dark?

It seems like if a transference shows up in your life, it may eventually show in the T relationship. If not, I suppose it just depends how troublesome it is for you; if it bothers you, then it would probably help to bring it to T.

It feels very positive to me to imagine yourself sitting under your T's desk (reminds me of that photo of John-John under Pres Kennedy's desk). Maybe it's an image that expresses trust in your T, rather than emptiness or a need for security in you?

I often found it very warm to imagine myself or some representation of me left in my T's possession. Just made the connection feel more immediate.

[elliemay]

Oh, I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way to do therapy as long as everything that needs to be said is said.

It doesn't matter what you call it, or hwo you approach it.

If I am experiencing intrusive feelings about my therapist, then yeah, I probably should talk about them in therapy. There's a reason why I'm experiencing those feelings, and they likely need to play out in order to find some relief.

Cause I think that's what therapy is ultimately about - finding some relief from suffering.

Whatever gets one to that point, is the way that person's therapy should go.

[SkinnySoul]

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

Do you think a client can do therapy without talking about transference or the relationship with the T?

It is technically possible, especially if you're doing CBT.
But if you're into psychodynamic therapy and skip the T-client relationship, you're missing out on a biggie.

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

Do you think a T should ignore these elements of therapy?

Nope. Especially if the client brings it up(due to discomfort etc).

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

I would assume CBT tends to be less likely to deal with these things?

Yes, because CBT is mostly about teaching you coping mechanisms.

Originally Posted by Stringcheese

....but is anyone ignoring these things in their therapy?

Well, sometimes I do, but my T doesn't let me get away with it.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Well, it took a long time! For me it was a slow process, painstaking at times. It involved being willing to recognize cognitively and feel emotionally and express during sessions all those thoughts and feelings in the moment. It was crucial to not shut down or avoid. I couldn't even begin to do that until after a couple of years, when the dissociation was under control.

It involved, at times, a certain amount of regression--though my T kept that to a minimum by switching to a more cognitive focus as needed. It required of me to be committed to being as open and honest as possible, but what made that possible was the trust I already had in my T and his demeanor--very calm and accepting.

I never feared his reaction to any feeling or thought or judgement I expressed (and there were times when I was quite unfair to him ); my self-condemnation was a much bigger challenge. For me, the resolution of the transference was a very conscious process. It wasn't about being swept away, losing touch, dissociating, feeling out of control--those things may happen as the transference develops, but I suspect resolution isn't possible until that peak is past.

Probably resolving the transference was a focus of 2/3 of the years in therapy. It provided a frame through which to process FOO memories. I had done a good bit of that in the first 2-3 years, but revisiting those thoughts and feelings within the context of the spontaneous thoughts and feelings in the T relationship of the moment seemed to be what deeply integrated those experiences.

Before that I had viewed those memories as painful but distant (maybe because I was so often dissociated during the events? or maybe that's a necessary step in the process), and while it helped cognitively and, to some extent, cathartically by being heard and validated, it didn't really defuse the pain of those experiences. It was almost like they belonged to a different self, and I couldn't get close enough to them to defuse them. Like the pain could reach me, but I couldn't reach it. Somehow, those feelings had to be brought into the present to play out in real time in the room in the T relationship to lose their power to hurt me. I think that may be the reparative part of therapy. It allowed my T to respond directly to pain in a way no one had at the time. It changed the experiences, and so changed me.

I just had to post and thank you FKM for this post - it's beautiful in its clarity and perceptiveness and has helped me enormously right now to get a handle on why the **** I am persisting in seeing a therapist when it doesn't seem to be helping me. I lose the plot so often as to what I'm trying to get from therapy, that I'm going to copy and paste your post and put it somewhere obvious to remind me what therapy for me should be about.

Thank you

Torn

[tinyrabbit]

I have a lot of attachment issues and my T is a relational therapist so we talk about this stuff a lot, plus I have a lot of transference issues, e.g. experiencing him in ways that remind me of other people, imagining he is shouting at me, etc. I sometimes feel I'm telling my story to him through transference and how I react to it.

[Perna]

Transference is not necessarily talked about, it is "worked" through. The relationship was well worth talking about for me because it was right there, immediate, and we were both participating, etc. Sometimes transference would come up in relation to our working together but that was okay.

I don't think one can learn to relate to others well without getting some first-hand experience with feedback you know will be helpful. Otherwise one is stuck with one's friends/relatives and what we think about them and what they're doing, etc. whereas we don't know T so well so our assumptions of what T is thinking/doing are easier to work with because they are not so "possible" to know without discussion with T. It's easier to see thought distortions, etc.

[WikidPissah]

I've never spoken about transference issues or the t relationship in therapy. Like Chris, I am in therapy to deal with my life issues, if therapy in itself becomes an extra issue for me, then it is not worth it. I have enough problems, I don't want t to be another one.