[Leah123]

Would it be rude to ask my therapist if she'd cut my sessions if I ever asked her for a reduced rate in the future? I see her twice a week now, and work 60 hours a week, which inflates my income, but it's not something I can or want to do forever. I'm in school now to pursue a new career, but it may pay less, because of no overtime, than my current position. That change is probably a year or so out in the future, and I've seen her a year and a half now.

Does it seems like I don't value her time if I ask her if she'd let me continue seeing her at a reduced rate a year or two down the road from now if my circumstances changed a lot?

Or should she expect me to be willing to keep the same crazy schedule forever to afford her? Is it all on me to decide what I value/need more... the time in therapy or the normal working hours?

She asked me to promise her once that I would tell her if I ever could not afford to see her, and said if I had to she'd make it work even if I couldn't pay her (like I lost my job/got divorced/went bankrupt, you know, something catastrophic) so I'm hoping she would not be offended by that question, but I wonder what you all think.

Part of me thinks it's a reasonable question, part of me thinks it's horrid.

[InRealLife45]

Seems like you have a good relationship, so go ahead and ask.

My T once said something similar a year ago, but then after she ****ed up and made it impossible for insurance to pay her, she raised her rate to the maximum for me ($35 more than insurance was paying) and told me to pay or leave. Made me feel very loved, lol.

As long as you and your T are on good terms, I think its ok.

[HazelGirl]

Why would it be rude? I see my T for a reduced rate. That doesn't mean I value her time any less. It just means I don't have the money to see her full-time.

Leah, I really think there's something major going on in you in regards to money. There's a lot of shame and stress, from what I am reading, and it's harming you and your ability to talk about money with your T. Do you know where this attitude towards money comes from?

[CameraObscura]

You can always ask, it's not rude at all. It's information you have a right to know to make an informed personal decision about a professional service.

Your schedule is brutal, and no one could do that forever (or at least they shouldn't have to).

[sweepy62]

I do believe you deserve the chance to continue to see her at a reduced rate, you are a valuable client, you say her time is valuable, but so is yours. Please ask.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Why would it be rude? I see my T for a reduced rate. That doesn't mean I value her time any less. It just means I don't have the money to see her full-time.

Leah, I really think there's something major going on in you in regards to money. There's a lot of shame and stress, from what I am reading, and it's harming you and your ability to talk about money with your T. Do you know where this attitude towards money comes from?

Well, I do talk with her about it: I actually sent her a message to this effect, just now, but then told her I thought it was indeed a rude question, to suggest that she take the hit because I wanted to change jobs. The only thing is, I really can't plan on working so much forever, so at some point I may need to decide what to do.

As far as shame and stress, well, to generalize, I will say that money is an issue for me, but one I've been working on quite a bit, hence it's come up a lot lately, and yes, I do know where it comes from.

The thing is, I could see asking for a reduced rate if I was fired or something, or... had a huge emergency that was financially devastating, but to ask because of a job change seems.... more grey.

Of course, it's also partly a question of defining her commitment to me as I ponder the depth of mine to her and to this therapy.

[stopdog]

I do not think it is rude. You are negotiating a business transaction.

[precaryous]

I feel it is worth a question.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Well, I do talk with her about it: I actually sent her a message to this effect, just now, but then told her I thought it was indeed a rude question, to suggest that she take the hit because I wanted to change jobs. The only thing is, I really can't plan on working so much forever, so at some point I may need to decide what to do.

As far as shame and stress, well, to generalize, I will say that money is an issue for me, but one I've been working on quite a bit, hence it's come up a lot lately, and yes, I do know where it comes from.

The thing is, I could see asking for a reduced rate if I was fired or something, or... had a huge emergency that was financially devastating, but to ask because of a job change seems.... more grey.

Of course, it's also partly a question of defining her commitment to me as I ponder the depth of mine to her and to this therapy.

Ok. I'm glad you're aware that your struggle with money is more intense than most. I just wanted to point that out in case you hadn't noticed it.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Ok. I'm glad you're aware that your struggle with money is more intense than most. I just wanted to point that out in case you hadn't noticed it.

Lol, I'd totally noticed it. Part of it is circumstantial, part of it is internal/unique to me and my issues.

I have issues with money. And that "dreaded money monster" as T calls it now, is what caused the one rupture we had awhile back. I'm working on it, finally started talking with T about it a couple months ago or so. Her naming it like she did, somehow made it easier to talk about. I hate money, I have always hated money, I hate that we have to HAVE money, I hate everything ABOUT money!!! We came up with the idea of doing 25 minute sessions for half her normal rate (I pay out of pocket), which I am SO grateful for, and actually turns out that I do pretty good with 25 minutes because I know I don't have time to hem and haw and stall. I've been doing overtime at work, to fund my 'therapy account' that I opened recently, and asked her for 50 minutes last week and this coming week because of the big stuff we've been talking about lately. But I'm going to have to go back to the 25 minute sessions after this week. They're not being as generous with the overtime at work as they had been. I hope you get this worked out. I definitely empathize with the money issues thing!!!

[rainbow8]

I don't think it's rude to ask. It's up to your T to tell you yes or no, but you can always ask.

In my case, I don't have insurance that my T accepts now, so I asked her if she could give me a reduced rate. I think her answer was that she could, but it would have to be twice a month instead of weekly. I didn't dare ask if I could see her weekly at that rate. She said it would be for 60 minutes, not 90, or maybe I suggested that. She's doing me a big favor and said that it's all right, but I can't ask for anything more.

[elaygee]

I just don't know that it'd be helpful. How can she answer now for a year from now? Maybe a year from now she will have some major life event (who knows) where she cannot afford to drop her rate. So if she agrees, then has to back up, that'd make for bad feelings. I mean, I'm not saying don't throw it out there, but not sure you'd get an answer.

[blur]

leah, when i read your posts about the cost of therapy i think maybe one of a couple things is possibly going on:

a) this is really a boundary issue and you need to set boundaries with your T, and yourself, about how much you can realistically pay for therapy. the reason it keeps coming up is because you haven't done this yet and so you feel resentment about it. it's typical that when we don't set boundaries we end up feeling resentment toward those we feel are taking advantage of us in some way. if it is this one then i think the solution is to look at what is holding you back from asserting yourself to ask for what you need. by that i mean saying something along the lines of "T, i can pay X amount of money a week on therapy, how can we schedule things to best utilize what i can afford?" then, stick to that and no messing around with it.

b) you want it all (multiple T appointments/email per week and for it to not cost much) and can't seem to just accept your situation. so, you keep bringing it up but mostly want to express your frustration rather than accept the situation or do something to change it. if it is this one then radical acceptance is probably what is needed so you can find some peace about all this.

either way i think if you just make a decision and stick to it you will likely feel more settled about all this.

[feralkittymom]

I don't think the subject is inappropriate, but I do question the timing. This is all hypothetical and at least a year off. I wonder if the need to ask this now is more about your recent rupture within the context of your on-going struggle with money issues.

I also think your life choices have to take priority. If it comes to pass that you change jobs (and at this point you really can't know what a new job will pay), you make that decision on the basis of what's best for your life. How it effects your time/money spent in therapy is a secondary issue. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

Sometimes obsessively trying to control future circumstances is less about prudent planning and more about creating paralysis/distraction in the present.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by blur

leah, when i read your posts about the cost of therapy i think maybe one of a couple things is possibly going on:

a) this is really a boundary issue and you need to set boundaries with your T, and yourself, about how much you can realistically pay for therapy. the reason it keeps coming up is because you haven't done this yet and so you feel resentment about it. it's typical that when we don't set boundaries we end up feeling resentment toward those we feel are taking advantage of us in some way. if it is this one then i think the solution is to look at what is holding you back from asserting yourself to ask for what you need. by that i mean saying something along the lines of "T, i can pay X amount of money a week on therapy, how can we schedule things to best utilize what i can afford?" then, stick to that and no messing around with it.

b) you want it all (multiple T appointments/email per week and for it to not cost much) and can't seem to just accept your situation. so, you keep bringing it up but mostly want to express your frustration rather than accept the situation or do something to change it. if it is this one then radical acceptance is probably what is needed so you can find some peace about all this.

either way i think if you just make a decision and stick to it you will likely feel more settled about all this.

a. I don't think she's taking advantage of me. Her rate is fair and we've compromised to bring therapy into line with my budget by cutting hours on my part and a couple concessions on hers. The conversation you mention is one we've had, and how we've settled on our current plan, a big shift from our previous setup.

b. I've done something about it and accept the current setup: I think it's actually going to work out excellently once I settle in. But I'm now just one-year out from the most major career shift of my life and am evaluating my prospects so I can prepare for it. That includes evaluating my financial reality 12 months out. And yes, I'd like the security of knowing she'll try to work with me if I downgrade my income to improve my job satisfaction significantly.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I don't think the subject is inappropriate, but I do question the timing. This is all hypothetical and at least a year off. I wonder if the need to ask this now is more about your recent rupture within the context of your on-going struggle with money issues.

I also think your life choices have to take priority. If it comes to pass that you change jobs (and at this point you really can't know what a new job will pay), you make that decision on the basis of what's best for your life. How it effects your time/money spent in therapy is a secondary issue. Cross that bridge when you come to it.

Sometimes obsessively trying to control future circumstances is less about prudent planning and more about creating paralysis/distraction in the present.

I agree my life choices take priority. If my income dropped significantly and she couldn't compromise ratewise, I'd switch therapists. I can't keep a job to keep a therapist, no matter how awesome.

I don't think I'm obsessively trying to control the future: I'm asking her once to give me a sense of whether she'd compromise her rate if my income dropped, because this is the period I'm starting to evaluate job prospects, income range, etc. I do always plan ahead. I am more mindful of it after our little rupture but also because I've just begun looking more at job prospects now that I'm in my senior year and have a better sense of probable income levels.

But I'm mindful that what you said about creating distraction in the present, and I am one of the leading procrastinators of my age, I'd posit, so...

I'll make sure not to waste the hour tomorrow catastrophizing about fees.

Knowing my therapist, she'll say something reassuring anyway about working it out. I'm a good client. She's a good therapist, and I think we've been very fair with each other.

[PeeJay]

I think that you have every right to ask. I think the risk is it changes the therapist's feelings toward us, even if they don't care to admit it. It's their job to manage those feelings, but something subtly shifts, perhaps.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by elaygee

I just don't know that it'd be helpful. How can she answer now for a year from now? Maybe a year from now she will have some major life event (who knows) where she cannot afford to drop her rate. So if she agrees, then has to back up, that'd make for bad feelings. I mean, I'm not saying don't throw it out there, but not sure you'd get an answer.

She is semi-retired and has most of her time free, so that wouldn't be a hypothetical that would occur for us, not like a full-time practitioner who could drop me from a reduced rate to find a full-rate client.

Rather, the highly likely probability regarding fees would be that she would either agree to a rate reduction if necessary for me, or I would have to cut session times or switch therapists.

Of course, no one can predict the future, but that doesn't stop me from having a college fund for my daughter, paying my mortgage, funding my retirement account, etc., so I do see value in mapping out the future to an extent.

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by PeeJay

I think that you have every right to ask. I think the risk is it changes the therapist's feelings toward us, even if they don't care to admit it. It's their job to manage those feelings, but something subtly shifts, perhaps.

I agree with you so I definitely resist the idea of asking for a reduction. As a rule, it's very important to me to pay the full rate for a few reasons. But the insecure part of me wants to hope/know that she'd be able and willing to stick by me either way.

[blur]

Originally Posted by Leah123

a. I don't think she's taking advantage of me. Her rate is fair and we've compromised to bring therapy into line with my budget by cutting hours on my part and a couple concessions on hers. The conversation you mention is one we've had, and how we've settled on our current plan, a big shift from our previous setup.

b. I've done something about it and accept the current setup: I think it's actually going to work out excellently once I settle in. But I'm now just one-year out from the most major career shift of my life and am evaluating my prospects so I can prepare for it. That includes evaluating my financial reality 12 months out. And yes, I'd like the security of knowing she'll try to work with me if I downgrade my income to improve my job satisfaction significantly.

this is great then. i hope you can relax and enjoy the present moment.

[Leah123]

I don't know Blur, might not recognize myself without my anxiety.

But I am looking forward to worrying about other things, having gotten that one out of the way.

[Wren_]

I think you needed to ask ... so it can settle in your mind as reassurance that your T is with you and will continue to be, whatever might come up; nothing rude in that Leah

[Leah123]

Here is the relevant part of her reply message, she thought it was definitely a valid question and she agreed with my observation that I'd probably not want as much session time in the future:

"Good morning, Leah, that is not a thoughtless question at all. I would absolutely work something out with you that you could afford. But I truly believe that as your therapy progresses, you will be needing only one session a week."

I imagine she's right about needing less time in therapy: a lot of my issues are circumstantial right now, and are likely to ease in a year, I have already worked through a fair amount of the PTSD-related stuff. Hopefully I'll still be able to direct frequency, as she's let me do so far.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Leah123

Would it be rude to ask my therapist if she'd cut my sessions if I ever asked her for a reduced rate in the future?

I think it is too convoluted/futuristic a question and does not address your worries? Tell her what you told us in this post about yourself and your situation and discuss what you want (enough sessions at a price you can afford). She may or may not want to cut your sessions in the future if you ask for a reduced rate in the future. Neither she nor you can see the future and trying to bind her to a future scenario in your head is not "rude" but unrealistic.