Value

I agree with this.

In the US, if someone rapes another, justice means the rapist is put in jail and serves a sentence whereby the rapist loses freedom.

I think that true justice should include some pay back to the victim. A rapist can never pay back what was taken away, but having to give money could help. At the very least, the money could pay for the victim's therapy*.

Committing evil acts and still having a sliver of human worth are not mutually exclusive.

*Just trying to bring back the relevance to the psychotherapy message board. You're welcome, Hazel.

People do do whatever they want to each other, torture/kill animals and "seeming wrong" to "hurt" each other is a value judgement based on one's personal backgrounds and beliefs not a "proof" of worth/no worth. What does "hurt" mean?

My husband hit me one morning while I was teaching him how to make pancakes. My stepmother use to hit me so I went into "kill" mode but my knowledge of and relationship with my husband was not like that which I had with my stepmother so I restrained myself and asked "why?" I had nearly gotten us hurt/killed in my impatience at his slowness, tried to turn on the blender before it was seated properly on the motor and it could have "exploded" and sent heavy glass shards everywhere, etc. Where is it written, "Don't hit your wife unless she is trying to kill you?"

It is all personal judgment and societal background and personal history, not something automatic/innate. It is sad that children are starving in Africa and I may/may not spend some of my personal "energy" (includes money as well as time and physical/emotional/mental resources) to see if I can help but I will not spend as much as I do on my own child. My child has more value/worth to me than a starving child in Africa does, they are not the same to me. I am the only one in my world and my #1 "job" is my survival. If I'm not here, I'm not here/can't do anything, have no worth/value to anyone else here (other than in memory, which can be of important positive or negative value to that person but not necessarily based entirely on what I said/did but on the person remembering's value system).

I'm quite frankly surprised it hasn't been moved yet

Thanks Hazel for this great thread, it's so fascinating! I believe all humans have worth, so for these questions:

1. I think people should be punished by being removed from society so they don't cause more harm. Removing freedoms and comforts we take for granted is another punishment, but that is always relative depending on the person. To a person with a conscience, living with with nothing but the memories of the things they've done can be the worst form of punishment. There isn't much you can do to change a sociopath (I guess the people most would consider "evil"), so you can only remove them from society.

2. Being a human in of itself is what gives us value, in my opinion. Philosophically I don't believe what you do or don't do determines your inherent worth, at least not at the basic level, but that's purely philosophical and not emotional. So I do think the concept of one's value is relative and can change. For example if I were in a position where a loved one were being attacked and I had the opportunity to harm the attacker to save my child's life, that attacker would quickly lose some value.

3. No- I don't think value is based on anything they have or haven't done at the base level. But like in the example in #2, there are events that for me can change this.

4. No one- I don't think one human life is worth more than another, at least not at the basic level. Like I said, there may be extreme circumstances, such as in a matter of survival, where one person may have more value than another. In the broader sense however, I feel that to be human is to have value.

Value is a term that is plastered to the context. I am more valuable in some situations than others. For example, I'm a valuable musician to the groups I play in. Without my part, the groups can't function. I also work hard to give positive contributions. However, I have no value to a team when playing any sport. I play very poorly just stand as a road block for the others to navigate around. These are easy examples, but they can be expanded. My mother abused me. She has limited value to me. However, she is a very hard working and capable doctor. One could argue that she has no value to society because she was mean to her children and damaged them psychologically, but technically, she has helped hundreds of people in her work.

Then there are people who do not make any positive contribution to society at all. My friend's dad is a good example. He's an abusive drunk who lives on welfare when he could work and lies on his tax forms. So when looking at the word value in terms of contributing goods and services to society, he has no value. However, he is a very smart man who is cunning enough to get away with a lot of his crimes. You could say that because he has merits that could contribute to society, he has value. You could also say that everyone has value because no one is absolutely bad or good. It's all a giant grayscale similar to figuring out who has value where.

So, I don't think that saying someone just has or lacks value as a human being is really possible to say universally. It would depend on how you are defining value and the context. Does everyone have value to me? Not necessarily. That doesn't mean they don't have value to someone else or to society as a whole. And just because they might have value to someone else, that doesn't mean that I am wrong for not giving them any value.

maybe i think of value like a number. 5 is always worth 5. however, with your actions you can add to the collective value of society or reduce the collective value of society.

No. But modern society does not allow us to physically torture a convicted pedophile.

I'm sure their mother values them. I believe that some people are so evil that they have nothing valuable.

Yes it is.

Thank goodness. And not just because wrongful convictions happen all the time.

I am skeptical about the concept of evil and even more skeptical of universal agreement as to what would constitute such..

Personally I don't want a label as good/bad/evil/of value/valueless or any other labels to "put" on anyone. That is just NOT MY JOB!

I will be on a jury and decided if someone has acted within or outside of the law of my state. We are all pack animals and have decided and through natural development grouped by countries and declared that this behavior or that behavior is acceptable or not and if not, will have consequences.

Some of these are just 'societal norm' and some are laws. Obviously each religion believes that only they can be right or holy or His favourites and many religions very definitely place "rules" over what behaviours are acceptable or not as well.

But for you or anyone on the planet to say that I am worthless or of no value or "less" valued than someone else is stark raving barking mad.

That is exactly how wars are started and then killing is "legal."
Exactly why members of one faith are not allowed to pray in other temples,
why some kid wearing a red scarf is killed by the one wearing blue,
why Hitler rose to power and destruction,
exactly why flipping a bird at another driver gets you shot,
why every religious zealot thinks he has the only path to righteousness,
exactly why juries convict without due process or evidence,
why women are raped in the Sudan,
why all those people fell from the sky....

Exactly why we have so many violent deaths in this country and all around the world. Because people have decided that others are not worthy "enough", and life has no inherent value in and of itself.
Because someone puts more value on themselves than others.
Why groups have to consider themselves better than other groups.
Why there is the "elite" and then the starving masses.

If you read the thread on "Hate" by Glok, you see that Hate only survives when spread and disseminated and mobs formed.

And you want to decide on this forum who, when, and to what degree, and how some are better than other?? Where is the cut off? Who gets cherry picked? Who is worthy of LIVING???
Really?? Seriously??

Life is precious and has value regardless of your or anyone else's "perspective".