Is there ever an acceptable reason to be utterly disappointed in your own kid?

My father says this all the time about my brother, and I hate it. I would be the first one to admit that my brother can be difficult sometimes; he can be really moody and mean to my father and he can be very self-absorbed and fixated on his own special interests, but a) what 17 year old isn't? and b) he has Asperger's, and if anything, he has overcome so many of his difficulties due to his diagnosis that I would think my father should be proud of him instead of being annoyed that he spends a lot of his time playing video games and talking about Vanguard and Yu-Gi-Oh and other card stuff.

I think my brother is pretty awesome and I love him absolutely unconditionally, but I can also see why my father would be disappointed, since my brother probably isn't what he expected when he envisioned having children and I know it's been hard for him...but at the same time, it upsets me when my father makes comparisons between me and my brother and telling me how he really didn't enjoy his one night a week with my brother because he spent the whole time talking about this girl he likes and not having a "real conversation" and how he enjoys spending time with me way more because I can have "real conversations" about politics and stuff.

I hate a) feeling like I'm taking something away from my brother who I love more than anything and b) knowing that my father's love for me and pride in me comes from the fact that I read the New York Times every day and have a 4.0 GPA at a prestigious university and will be a highly successful and affluent lawyer someday, which measures up to my father's expectations way more than my brother. I hate knowing that even just a few years ago, I was a disappointment when I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and depression and wasn't functioning as well as the way I am now and I hate feeling like I'm one step away from turning into a disappointment again.

I was talking about this with T today and her perspective is that this is 100% my father's issue and nothing I need to take on...but at the same time, I think if she was his therapist instead of mine, she might find some more validity to the idea that children can genuinely be disappointments to their parents. I think when people reach a certain age, it's natural for them to look back on their life and have regrets about the things they wish they'd had and the things they never will have, the way their kids could have turned out but didn't, the way their life could have gone, etc.

So I get it, but at the same time I hate that I'm being set up as the success and my brother as the failure, because I love my brother so much and don't think he's a failure even a little bit. I think he's amazing and has so many skills and so much potential and so many really special things about him and is such a strong person for overcoming some very large setbacks and obstacles in his life. I think he is an inspiration, and I hate that his own father can't see that too...

There isn't ever a good reason to think your own kid is a failure, right?

All you can do is be a good sibling--which it sounds like you are!!!

I just read this book not long ago called "Far from the tree" and it extensively interviews families who have children who are not like themselves, due to disability, genius or gender issues. It reveals a whole range of parental attitudes---from rejecting to ambivalent to heroic. Which covers everything from murder to doing everything possible to support a child who is "different". There is even a chapter on Autism spectrum kids.

Parents have this odd expectation that their offspring will be carbon copies of themselves. Some have too much ego tied up in producing kids.

I don't know, but this sure sounds like conditional love to me. My parents love has been very conditional like that. Funny now that I have grown up and am so lovable (successful) to them, I think they are scum of the earth.

If my kid was a mass murderer then I would consider that a complete failure. If my kid was a high school drop out then... Whatever. Takes some longer to grow up than others. I don't know it all. Everyone is important, just not mass murderers...

Yearning0723, your post touched my heart cause I'm dealing with something somewhat similar.

Me and my younger sister, only two years younger than me. We were both going to college, things were going okay till she developed psychosis and severe depression, became suicidal, was hospitalized for a whole year and then things were never the same. I never had a family member hospitalized before, and never in a psychiatric hospital. That actually traumatized me.

I also developed "survival guilt." You see how you are doing well in school and have a bright future and your brother doesn't? Such a thing might make people feel guilty for having it good. Mine was crushing. I actually stopped going to college. I started failing my courses, I could not continue. It was not just the guilt, I was also traumatized because of the whole ordeal but guilt has been a big thing I have been unable to break through.

Your father does what my mother did, she said good things about me and compared me to my sister who was not doing as well, even before the hospitalization. I supposed there were signs about her struggles, I just did not have the knowledge or motivation to see them. But I have also become super sensitive to any comparison. My sister has been a big disappointment to my whole family. I come from a driven family and successful family (relatively speaking). They wanted the same of us. I don't blame them. I understand where they're coming from.

The guilt is so bad I prefer to be another disappointment to my family than to actually do well and be successful. Every time I see my sister and I look into her eyes, I somehow feel it's my fault. We had fights, we competed, we had different personalities and sometimes I truly hated her. I have become guilty about all those. Like your brother, she had some social skills issues, perhaps something developmentally a bit off about her. So I felt she was being blamed or judged for something she had not control over.

I was so disappointed that my parents were not more loving or more accepting. I had wondered what if I was in her situation? Life is not fair to her. It could as easily have been me in that situation, there is no logic to life in that way. But then again I also compare myself to people who have better lives. Why should I suffer because of my sister anyways? Why my family? What did I do to deserve this? What did she do to deserve this? What did my dad do to deserve such children?

I think what is an "acceptable reason" for a parent to be disappointed in a child depends on the parent and their upbringing and the culture. People have been very disappointed in their children for much less.... A father in a political family I knew was seriously disappointed in his son who had decided not to go into politics. He was crushed. You would think the son's decision to become an engineer was the same as him wanting to become a prostitute or something. They were not on speaking terms for years.

People can be disappointed in their kids for all sorts of reasons (sexual orientation, who they marry, conversion to a new religion, career choice, etc). A beautiful woman was so disappointed her daughter was only average looking. When you have expectations in life, you will face disappointments. I suppose people assume that when you are a parent then you rise above it all, or that the parental perfect unconditional love is a real thing. But it's not. I don't think unconditional love exists or if it does, it's rare or inconsistent. Certainly it's not "natural." It's the kind of thing that you have to constantly struggle to maintain. Because it's human nature to judge, to value something more and something less. Almost everybody wants the best for their kids. They want them to look beautiful, be healthy, be "normal", be successful, enjoy life, make money, etc. There is an internal struggle when people become aware of some "bad" things about their kids. When the "bad" thing is big enough or the people are just in a crappy place or under stress, love may lose the fight, at least temporarily. But they are human, they can't be perfect. But neither can their children. Children too may see their parents as big disappointments. That's how I felt about my parents when they were judging my sister. I think we all struggle with these things.

I can't see telling a child I was disappointed in them overall, maybe some of their actions but not them as a person. But it can be hard growing up to remember that parents are just older people, like ourselves, and just as flawed as we are. Just being a parent does not make us better/worse than we were as ourselves before we married and had children, etc. Being a parent might be motivational for us or more of a stress, etc. but we are who we are. If your father had a crappy upbringing or even just felt like he did, he could end up not being a very good father. We often think it is our parents fault that we turn our a certain way but there's a lot in our own attitude and behaviors and thought patterns, etc. that can warp even the best parental upbringing or make a bad one helpful.

I agree with your therapist This is 100% your father's issue. He's making obvious blunders in the fatherhood department. There's no doubt about that.

You can't fix your dad, unless he actually wants to be fixed. What you can do is be the most supportive, loving and encouraging sibling you can be.

My dad was disappointed in my brother and made it obvious. I tried to be a loving sister who made it clear I didn't agree with our dad's behavior. My brother said it helped.

My dad tried to get me to form an alliance with him to ... I don't know ... to shame my brother into being a different person. I think maybe the most important thing I did as a sibling was to tell my father no, I didn't agree with that approach. I would even refuse to agree with him out loud on those things I actually agreed with. I kept the agreement to myself.

It was an extremely troubled dynamic. Your family dynamic doesn't sound so hot either. It might be wise to work with your therapist to learn how to not get sucked into it in ways that just create more tension. Your brother will feel it if you argue with your dad over him. He may feel grateful for about five minutes, but it's also likely he'll start feeling like he's responsible for ruining the entire family. Guilt is corrosive.

Love him, support him, encourage him and don't fight with your dad over him because in the long run it's likely to add to your brother's low feelings. At least, that's how it went in our family. Your therapist may have some good ideas on how to approach this in a healthy way.

Good luck to you. I wish you the best.

Edited to add: By all objective measures, my brother was a failure. But he had mental health issues that ran deep. They didn't show on the surface, our dad refused to see them, but they were there and, IMO, were the cause. My dad thought I was unrealistic in my acceptance of my brother; I thought he was lacking understanding. We never agreed until a few days before he died. He asked me to make sure my brother got the help he needed.

This is definitely your father's issue. But, to answer your question, parents can and do feel disappointment in their children. It's normal. BUT, if the child is just being who he is, (barring drugs, crime, etc.) there is never, ever a reason to express to the child. I can understand a parent being disappointed about a special needs child, however, it seems to be about the parent's feelings and inconvenience rather than the child's life.
And comparing children to each other is never, ever good.

I'm glad you love your brother so much. You can't change your father's behavior, so just try to be there for your brother.

Disappointment is self-indulging anger and resentment resulting from judging and condemning others.
It's love on conditions.

Pride and disappointment are all about the needs of the beholder. You need to keep both in check in dealing with your kids and remind yourself that they are neither your extensions nor your miniatures nor your property. They are not on this earth to reflect well on you and flatter your ego.

Parents are people and they feel whatever they feel and those feelings are valid because all feelings are valid. But with parenthood comes the responsibility to put your children's emotional well-being ahead of your need to express your feelings. It's not that your dad's feelings are messed up; his feelings just are. It's his expression of them that is so cruel and horrid.

I think I'd feel some ethical responsibility to distance myself from actions like your father's. I'm not sure how, but I think I would feel better to separate myself. Ideally, let him know that the things he's saying aren't acceptable. But I know you may still be financially dependent on your Dad, which is normal at your age, so you may have to wait until you're older to be very open about your refusal to accept your father's attitudes.

I've had similar conversations with my T because basically I'm the bastard in my family. My mom has hated me from a very, very young age. Not sure how young, but 5 or less. We're pretty sure(we're sure) she's BPD and I'm the one that got the brunt of it. So I feel like I was a piece a crap of a kid, somehow like it was my fault.

Of course the T assures me no children are bad children.

Look, bottom line is this is your father's problem. Some people look at a child that needs extra care or attention as a way that life can help teach the parents lessons, to become better people. Other's don't respond that way and that is their bad. I know if I ever have a child who has a disability, special needs, or mental health issue, I'll love that child because they are special, not in spite of them being so.

Your father should be proud of your brother and shame on him for not.

I'm off my soapbox now. Best of luck to you. Just keep loving your brother.

Of dear, this is so potentially damaging. I felt I was never good enough for my father being a dreamy, slightly Aspergers child and felt I could never please him no matter how hard I tried. I blame this for many of my current problems. He is long dead and I forgive him - he was hardly more than a child himself then, by my standards now.

Your father is putting you, his young daughter, in the position of being his confidante. This is an inappropriate role for you.

You could consider telling your father that hearing his assessments of your brother make you uncomfortable and you wish that he would not share them with you.

I was utterly disappointed when both of my boys moved out at 18, dropped out of college and smoked pot. This really hurt their father, who had been wonderful to them.
One of them has moved back in and is in his second year in college. He is getting a degree in applied computing. He also got on a health kick, works out, and doesn't smoke anymore that we know of.
My older son lives in a condo with a roommate. He works full time, supports himself, and is in his third year of college.
The changes are like a miracle. I will say however, the boys lost a lot of trust from their dad.

Really good thread...

I think feeling disappointed with someone is within the 'normal' range of human emotions. I wouldn't judge someone on the basis of that feeling.

However, what you are saying is more than disappointment, imo. Although I don't consider myself a 'success', I do go through something similar in that my mother uses me and my accomplishments to make herself feel better. My siblings' lives have been an ongoing wreck because of mental health issues....it's a long story that I don't want to get into here.

What is disturbing is being viewed/related to as an extension of someone. It can be the most objectifying feeling, and that's what it seems like your father is doing--he's using you to make himself feel better. I'm not saying this to be judgmental; I just think this might be why it feels so uncomfortable and distressing.

Objectification is among the lowest, most repulsive things one can do to another. It's dehumanizing, which is often associated with the most extreme abuse...Your father might be viewing you in terms of what you do for him/how you make him feel, rather than for your intrinsic worth as his daughter. Maybe he could watch the movie Temple Grandin or Forest Gump (or you and he could watch it together and discuss afterwards) to remind him how much everyone contributes to this earth, then open discussion? Just a thought...

I think your thoughts and feelings about your brother are really sweet , and I am glad he has a sister like you.

Skies, that was well said. You are right that the problem is some parents use their kids as extensions of themselves. I'm thinking perhaps it's a part of being a narcissistic parent. I can't imagine being ashamed or disappointed in any of my kids for any reason.

Well I think there are 2 different things going on here.

It's seems to be within the normal range of emotions [of a healthy person] to be disappointed with those we love. If my husband were to have an affair, i'd say I might be disappointed in him. If one of my children tried heroin, i'd say I might be disappointed in him for doing so.

Caring and loving and accepting and valuing vs. being disappointed in someone aren't mutually exclusive.

I think what Yearning is talking about is something else. That's what I was trying to articulate. I just wanted to clarify because I don't think being disappointed in someone is an unhealthy emotional state in itself.

Maybe the difference is temporary vs permanent, or maybe I just can't find the right word to articulate?

Yes that's a good point and I agree with that, and I can't find the right word either but the latter seems like it's about the whole person, like it overshadows other things, like it's so final, like it cuts to the core. It feels so much like abuse even if not intentioned as such.

It does seem like the permanent disappointment cuts to the core.

And in this case, it's a display of favoritism, in a way.

There's family updates, when grown and gone. Then there's analyzing the whole person, warts and all. There's other avenues of getting support with children, young and older. I was raised in a culture of updates(health, travel, jobs, etc updates), yet, witnessed in an extended way, how expression of overall disappointment in a siblings character to the other sibling(s) can destroy family relationships. When it's by a parent, it's devastating, imo.