[peaches100]

A friend from PC and I have been talking about something, and I would like to see how other PC members feel about it. It pertains to the therapeutic relationship.

We all know that in t, the goal is for the client to resolve their problems with the t's support, and then go out into life and apply what they learn to other relationships. I get that. But in some cases, it doesn't seem to fit. Here's what I mean.

Some people go to t because they have a specific problem that they aren't able to accomplish on their own, such as maybe they want to quit smoking or they don't have good communication skills and are having trouble finding a marriage mate, or they can't manage conflict at work, or whatever. Those are specific things that a t can teach skills to that person about, and then they can go out into their real life and reach their goal or handle their specific problem on their own. They can teach the person who wants to quit smoking skills to quit, they can teach the person who doesn't communicate well how to do that, or give sound advice on how a person can handle a conflict with somebody at work. Once they have resolved the problem, or met their goal, they are ready to terminate.

But what about people for whom the actual "therapeutic relationship" is what is needed? When you terminate therapy, you can't just go out into the world and find that somewhere else. The t relationship can't be duplicated in real life! I know, because I have tried it with a friend before, and it was disastrous!

Most friends don't want to talk about stuff that personal or "heavy" all the time. They don't mind being a listening ear or lending support occasionally if you're having a hard time. But mostly, friends seem to just want somebody to hang around with, do fun things together, and keep the talk light. At least that's my experience.

On the rare occasion that a friend is willing to provide long-term support, I've found that there's usually something in it for them -- they tend to be rescuers or control freaks who then feel it is their responsibility to "fix" you and they can become quite controlling, almost like a parent, in expecting you to follow their advice. Or, others may be truly good friends with no agenda, but they find that talking about difficult or negative subjects is a "downer." It gets depressing, and friends get tired of hearing about it. This bodes badly for ones with problems such as anxiety, depression, or other personal problems that aren't quickly resolvable, if at all.

I wonder then, what are we supposed to do if what we need can be found only in the therapeutic relationship? How do we get to the point where we can terminate because we don't need that support/outlet anymore? What if we continue to have serious concerns in our lives, or deep things we need to talk to someone about, but it's not something that a friendship can provide? In many cases, we can talk to our h's. But we both know that there are some things that we would not feel comfortable to talk to even them about.

There is nowhere we can go in life and reveal our most deep and personal thoughts, worries, problems, etc., and know that it will be kept confidential and that whatever we say, our t will not get angry or judge us. No one except God alone. And yet he made people to have close relationships with one another. He made the family arrangement, brought his people together into groups to worship him, encouraged them to love and support one another. So it doesn't seem like it should be wrong for us to feel like we "need" the therapy relationship, if other relationships in life are not the right place to meet those needs.

It's great if somebody has a close relationship with their mom, as that would probably be a suitable place to get at least some of the necessary support. But many of us aren't close to our parents and/or they are not emotionally supportive.

What's the answer? Are we supposed to just reach a point in therapy where we just don't need to talk to anybody about deep or troubling things? I honestly can't see myself ever feeling like I don't need somebody to talk to like that. Part of the problem might be that I'm such a serious person who takes life seriously and the things that are on my mind most of the time other people would consider too "emotionally heavy," too boring, too negative, or TMI. But I'm not likely to stop being concerned with the deep issues and quandries of life.

Can somebody help me understand this? Any opinions or advice is appreciated.

Peaches

[precaryous]

I have no problems with seeing my T for therapy, support and advice as long as I can. In my case I don't see an end to therapy. I imagine the therapeutic relationship will always be helpful for me.

I think as we get stronger because of the therapeutic relationship, we're more able to tolerate emotions that never feel as troubling as before... Yes we probably still have a desire to be intimate with a friend... But our need for them to 'be there' is less... I know this is true for me...

[Soccer mom]

I totally see what you're asking but don't have a good answer. I see my T. weekly for issues related to my emotionally distanced mom's death this year. I see myself spacing out the sessions to monthly but I'm not sure I'll ever stop going. It's too beneficial for the stage of life I'm in. I have good friends with whom I've discussed my transference but I already know which ones get tired of hearing about it and which ones don't mind to keep listening.
I'll be curious to see the other replies.

[MoxieDoxie]

I wish I never started therapy. I now know what it feels like to have this type of relationship and I will always ache for it, it will feel like a whole in my soul, but never being able to duplicate it with a person outside the therapy room. I do not feel it is on the same lines as "It is better to have love and lost then never to have loved at all.

[HazelGirl]

I think that the goal is to not have just one person to rely on. In therapy, you're relying solely on the T and they are not relying on you at all. But if therapy is working correctly, you should start learning healthy interdependence, and also learn how to reach out to multiple people, not just one. And all your relationships become an exchange in both directions. Because no one is relying solely on one person, they can all share the burden of each other's problems effectively without tiring of each other or feeling smothered or overwhelmed.

[NowhereUSA]

because my depression is chronic and unlikely to resolve in my life, I have no problem not terminating if unnecessary. his support can't be replicated exactly - it's an intense one hour of me pouring out my darkest thoughts with the hope that i won't do something to myself. i'm open with my H and with my best friend, and at the same time i can't talk to them in the same way. not because i don't think they can't handle it but because of the nature of the relationship. they don't know how to read me.

so y'know, therapy will always be a part of my life.

Originally Posted by MoxieDoxie

I do not feel it is on the same lines as "It is better to have love and lost then never to have loved at all.

I hate that quote, like other quotes formulated by happy people who believe that everybody else is either happy in the exact same way, or else dysfunctional. For me, it is a blatant lie. To others, it is not, but the generalisation is still erroneous and untrue. The therapy relationship cannot be replicated elsewhere, so maybe it will be the same kind of lie, in the end. It is not possible for me to have that kind of conversation with people outside the therapist's office. I know I'm lucky to have the chance to do it now, for a few years, but I, too, wonder what it will be like afterwards. Hopefully therapy will help me get back to where I did not feel any need to confide in other people. It is how the lottery of genetics made me, after all. And I know that different people have different goals, and for me, the goal is not to be able to apply what I learn in therapy outside it, since that is, as the OP points out, largely impossible.

I don't think the solution is to stop thinking about important and deep subjects. I think reading is one answer: Camus, Kierkegaard and other existentialists for instance. Finding the answer to the existential loneliness.

Honestly I think some of us will always need some kind of therapeutic support. And I think it is okay. The problem is finding therapists who will use this method of ongoing support. And therapists are not going to always be able to be there. They might move, retire, pass away or whatever and we then have to find someone new. I don't know. It's hard and painful and really confusing.

[Asiablue]

I think when you still have a lot of work to do in therapy, it's hard to conceive of a time in the future where we won't need that kind of relationship. But the general idea is that the more you heal, the more you come to know yourself, the less you'll need your therapist or others ( in that intense needy way). Your emotions will become more regulated, feelings won't seem so "big" and overpowering and the baggage that is behind those big overpowering emotions will be processed and diminished greatly. Eventually, you won't experience things in the future the way you do just now. And because of that you won't need the therapeutic relationship in the same way, if at all. And your friendships will be based on choice, not what they can do for you and whether they can replace the therapist or mother figure.
By the time you get to that point, in your healing journey, it won't seem so scary and actually freeing. Eventually you'll have a sense of inner calm and a way of being with yourself and fulfilling your own needs. It sounds lonely now because you're not finished your journey yet and can't imagine it but when you get to that place, you probably won't want to go to therapy, you'll want to get on with living.
That's not to say that the option isn't there to keep seeing a therapist, there's no reason to quit if you don't want to. I think as humans, we don't ever finish self-actualizing, trying to be better etc. The healing journey is never really over. But the stuff that weighs heavy on your soul right now won't always be so heavy.

[justdesserts]

Some of the problems I see my therapist for are deep--like learning how to trust people and overcoming deeply entrenched negative core beliefs. It is my belief that my therapist can help me overcome these sorrows and help me find a healthier way to live, but some of that is accomplished through the therapeutic relationship as I've learned to trust him, etc., but that is just the means to end (I hope).

My hope is that I am learning to have that therapeutic relationship with MYSELF, you know, inside myself. I do tend to be idealistic, though. I'm probably a lifer too.

[ScarletPimpernel]

The goal isn't to find one person to meet all your needs. It's to find multiple people AND to learn to meet your own needs.

My T is going to help me learn boundaries and needs within a friendship...if/when I find a friend...

But for now, I can't imagine my life w/o my T.

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I think when you still have a lot of work to do in therapy, it's hard to conceive of a time in the future where we won't need that kind of relationship. But the general idea is that the more you heal, the more you come to know yourself, the less you'll need your therapist or others ( in that intense needy way). Your emotions will become more regulated, feelings won't seem so "big" and overpowering and the baggage that is behind those big overpowering emotions will be processed and diminished greatly. Eventually, you won't experience things in the future the way you do just now. And because of that you won't need the therapeutic relationship in the same way, if at all. And your friendships will be based on choice, not what they can do for you and whether they can replace the therapist or mother figure.
By the time you get to that point, in your healing journey, it won't seem so scary and actually freeing. Eventually you'll have a sense of inner calm and a way of being with yourself and fulfilling your own needs. It sounds lonely now because you're not finished your journey yet and can't imagine it but when you get to that place, you probably won't want to go to therapy, you'll want to get on with living.
That's not to say that the option isn't there to keep seeing a therapist, there's no reason to quit if you don't want to. I think as humans, we don't ever finish self-actualizing, trying to be better etc. The healing journey is never really over. But the stuff that weighs heavy on your soul right now won't always be so heavy.

The part I bolded: I realized something just this morning that fits in with this. I was working on some health insurance stuff for next year, and it's very convoluted and confusing, and I said to my h "This is stressing me out." But then I stopped a minute and looked at myself and thought, wow, "This is stressing me out" has really changed in meaning from even a year ago. "Stressing out" to me used to equal full-blown panic, tears, denial, throwing the confusing papers on the floor, etc. Today I'm feeling a teeny bit overwhelmed but letting myself feel it, and dealing with it by talking out loud the confusing parts, mentioned it to h, and moved along. Finished the paperwork with no panic/tears/denial/throwing things. Another example in my life of how working my therapy really WORKS!!!! I am feeling pretty proud of myself right now.

I think it is incredibly important to realise and acknowledge the fact that everybody's journey is different, everybody's needs are different, everybody's therapy experience is probably different, too. Some of the things stated with the general "you" in previous posts are not at all applicable to me - nor would I want them to - and each one of us can speak only of our own experience. The statements are true, they are just not true for everybody.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I think it is incredibly important to realise and acknowledge the fact that everybody's journey is different, everybody's needs are different, everybody's therapy experience is probably different, too. Some of the things stated with the general "you" in previous posts are not at all applicable to me - nor would I want them to - and each one of us can speak only of our own experience. The statements are true, they are just not true for everybody.

When I used the term " you" I was speaking in very general terms. Of course everyone's experience, needs and wants will be different. Take and leave what's relevant.

[JustShakey]

It is true that the T relationship cannot be replicated IRL for adults (though ideally it should for children). Friendships and intimate relationships require give and take. If I talk to a friend about my problems, she will in turn talk to me about hers. Now, if I am unable to listen to her because I am too caught up in my own stuff we won't be friends for very long - it gets old meeting someone else's needs all the time and never having yours met in turn.
The purpose of the T relationship is in part to help us get to a place where we can handle that give and take. We work with the entire focus on us until we have matured enough to be able to function in adult relationships. Some of us will need ongoing support to maintain that functionality, but the need will be nothing like as intense as it once was.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[peaches100]

I am grateful for all of the conversation. It is helping me to think things through. I still feel fuzzy about it all though. . .

One thing I want to clarify is that I have no problem with the give and take of friendship. In fact, I've been more of the "giver" in my friendships thoughout my entire life. It's easy for me to listen to other people's problems and empathize with them. I feel for other people's pain, and I am drawn toward wanting to help. That is easy for me. The hard part is for me to ask anybody else for help or support. The only time I ever did that was when I had my terrible breakdown and was really sick. Then I had no choice. Even then, I didn't ask - someone offered. But it turned out horrible...I mean very bad.

So that is why the t relationship for me is something that I need and can't replicate in real life. It's the only place where I feel able to talk about certain things and ask for help. . .and even then, it is like pulling teeth because iI feel guilty for possibly being too much of a burden even to my t. I have such a protective side of me that I even defend myself against getting too attached to my t because my empty hole inside is so big that I am afraid if I even let myself begin to ask for a little bit of my t's caring and actually "take it in," it will feel so good and like such a relief that I will get too attached and love her too much, and then it will devastate me when we terminate. That fear has actually kept me from being able to allow myself to use my t for what I need, to let her comfort me, etc. And that is like the saddest thing in the world to me because I know that our time is running out soon, and if I am never able to "let her in" enough to help me get my needs met, it will eventually be too late and I will never heal.

I am between a rock and a hard place. I am too afraid to get what I need in t. And when t is over, I most definitely will not be able to open up and confide in a friend the way I do in t. Like I said, I have no problems with giving in a friendship. If anything, I give too much to others and don't let anybody meet my needs. In t, I need, even for a short time, to be a "taker." And yet I cannot allow myself.

I need something in t that i may never again have a chance for - so yes, it is going to be devastating to me when it ends - even if I never let myself "have" my t in the first place.

Maybe this doesn't make sense to others.

[wotchermuggle]

This is a really good question.

[PreacherHeckler]

I was thinking about this recently myself because it has been a difficult aspect of my "post-therapy" life. I have since remarried to a caring man, and I have friends, and I have learned to navigate relationships in much healthier ways. In those areas, therapy has been very helpful and successful. But because the therapy relationship cannot be replicated in real life, the emotional safety inherent to the one-sided, parent-child sort of relationship I had with my therapist simply does not exist in my life anymore. I miss that sense of safety, where I could tell this person anything, knowing he would do his best to understand and accept me without judging me. It was the first time in my life that I had ever experienced this kind of emotional safety, so even though my therapist was far from being a "reparenting" therapist, the relationship itself met some of those unmet childhood needs.
I know my husband loves me, and he meets many needs that could never be met by my therapist due to the time constraints and the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship. I know that I have a more fulfilling relationship overall with my husband than I could ever have with a therapist. I don't have a problem accepting the give and take aspect of "real life" relationships and I don't expect my husband to give of himself unconditionally. But he will never be able to meet that one need my therapist met -- the childhood need for unconditional emotional safety.
I will probably always miss that part of our therapeutic relationship. But I have found that I can almost, but not quite, feel it in my memories of interactions with my therapist. It's not the same as actually being there, but it's close enough to give me some comfort when I need it. I might not feel the actual safety anymore, but I can feel the calming warmth and comfort it brought me when my therapist met that need in our relationship. Yes, it's bittersweet and at times I miss him terribly, but I am glad I have the memories and the feelings they evoke in me when I need them.

[HazelGirl]

Peaches, therapy should be teaching you how to ask for what you need from people who are healthy and will give it to you.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by peaches100

I am grateful for all of the conversation. It is helping me to think things through. I still feel fuzzy about it all though. . .

One thing I want to clarify is that I have no problem with the give and take of friendship. In fact, I've been more of the "giver" in my friendships thoughout my entire life. It's easy for me to listen to other people's problems and empathize with them. I feel for other people's pain, and I am drawn toward wanting to help. That is easy for me. The hard part is for me to ask anybody else for help or support. The only time I ever did that was when I had my terrible breakdown and was really sick. Then I had no choice. Even then, I didn't ask - someone offered. But it turned out horrible...I mean very bad.

So that is why the t relationship for me is something that I need and can't replicate in real life. It's the only place where I feel able to talk about certain things and ask for help. . .and even then, it is like pulling teeth because iI feel guilty for possibly being too much of a burden even to my t. I have such a protective side of me that I even defend myself against getting too attached to my t because my empty hole inside is so big that I am afraid if I even let myself begin to ask for a little bit of my t's caring and actually "take it in," it will feel so good and like such a relief that I will get too attached and love her too much, and then it will devastate me when we terminate. That fear has actually kept me from being able to allow myself to use my t for what I need, to let her comfort me, etc. And that is like the saddest thing in the world to me because I know that our time is running out soon, and if I am never able to "let her in" enough to help me get my needs met, it will eventually be too late and I will never heal.

I am between a rock and a hard place. I am too afraid to get what I need in t. And when t is over, I most definitely will not be able to open up and confide in a friend the way I do in t. Like I said, I have no problems with giving in a friendship. If anything, I give too much to others and don't let anybody meet my needs. In t, I need, even for a short time, to be a "taker." And yet I cannot allow myself.

I need something in t that i may never again have a chance for - so yes, it is going to be devastating to me when it ends - even if I never let myself "have" my t in the first place.

Maybe this doesn't make sense to others.

But this in itself isn't any better or healthier. We often give to others what we really need for ourselves. There needs to be a balance where we can ask and receive what we need and also be able to give back without giving too much of ourselves that we become fatigued with it. I suppose it's all about boundaries.

I'm not implying this is your situation but sometimes we attract people into our lives because of what they can give us or we can give them and I think we play out some unresolved dynamic over and over and you've said you've experienced that and it turned out really bad. And that's because we are each attracting and attracted to those types of relationships that are ultimately unfulfilling because they aren't balanced and each person is playing out some unresolved dynamic ie "wounded healer/rescuer/victim.
After therapy, you/we/I won't be attracted to those types of relationships because you don't need that anymore. You hopefully will not have that huge empty hole inside because it will have been resolved and you'll be free to pursue deep meaningful and healthy relationships based on love and respect and not driven by need. ( I'm not saying you don't have that in your life personally, Peaches, I'm just speaking generally.)

I hear what you're saying about being scared to need your therapist or to allow the care in. And that if you open that particular pandora's box that it will be overwhelming. And I suspect it might be, at first. But the only way to get rid of that emptiness is to allow yourself to connect with someone safe. You have to trust your T to be able to handle it. And that isn't easy. I'm going through the same thing.

[Favorite Jeans]

I don't think the therapy relationship can or should be duplicated. But ideally some of what you figure out can help you to have more successful fulfilling relationships outside of therapy.

For example, I've always been terrified of conflict and wasn't sure a relationship could survive the anger of anyone in it. I am having the experience of addressing conflict and misunderstandings in the safety of my relationship with my T and building a repertoire of new experiences that I can draw on outside of therapy. Last time someone brought up a mistake I made at work I almost became defensive, but then sounding a bit like my T, simply thanked them for bringing the issue to my attention.