[guilloche]

[Possible trigger: Mention of SI.]

Just curious, have you ever explicitly asked your T about their expectations of you in the therapy process? Do you feel like you just know? Did your T volunteer this stuff?

I had a weird moment last week when my T said something about thinking that I was doing *better* (since I started therapy 6 months ago).

Um, no. Not really. In fact, I find therapy very destabilizing, and wonder if I should forget about it. I was doing pretty great without therapy, and since restarting, feel like things have gotten worse, including SI (actual and urges). When I was not in therapy, I had stopped SI altogether - it just wasn't an issue. Something about the stress of therapy and getting all the icky crap in my head stirred up just... pushes me more than I can handle, I guess.

Therapy also makes me feel more confused, more unstable, more incompetent to deal with stuff. It just feels like getting sucked into an underwater vortex where suddenly I can no longer feel up from down, or see anything clearly, or breathe. It's disorienting.

Ahem, but aside from that I realize he probably doesn't have much of an idea of what things I'm struggling with, or the SI issues. I wrote about it once, but didn't really talk about how much of a problem it is in the present. And, I don't know if I should. It would be helpful to know what the "ground rules" are for therapy... like am I expected to go in and confess when I do that? What if it's not a priority, to me, to work on that? I feel like just going in and saying, "hey, look what I did!" isn't productive if I'm not in a place where I want to focus on working on it, it just seems like... teasing and hurtful, a little.

Ugh! Do you know what's expected of you, beyond showing up and paying?!?

I don't think of my therapy as doing what is expected of me by anyone other than myself.

Here's what I expect of myself and my own therapy:

1. Commit to being honest and open with my therapist no matter how hard that is. He can't help me if I'm hiding from him (and ultimately myself).

2. Commit to doing the hard work of applying what I am learning about myself to life outside the four walls of T's office. It does no good to just give lip service to what I'm talking about in the safety of his office. I'm in therapy to improve my real life the other 6 days and 23 hours a week.

3. Commit to not giving up when I backslide. Forgive myself for being human and not always getting it right. I can keep working on it until it finally becomes second nature, even if that takes a long time and many replays to get there.

4. Commit to finding my life within myself. T can be my sounding board. T can be my support. T can help me learn more about myself and learn skills to manage. But only I can really find myself and my life. No one can do that for me.

5. Commit to slowing down and making conscious healthy choices about how I live, how I react, and how I behave. I have choices and that is empowering.

[stopdog]

I would not see a therapist that I thought had expectations of me other than to pay for the time. That is all I owe to a therapist.

Expectations are the base of disappointment.

[roimata]

1. Show up
2. Pay on time
3. Nothing else matters

My body will naturally reject the responsibility of having to fulfill anyone else's expectations of me.

[striking]

Originally Posted by guilloche

[Possible trigger: Mention of SI.]

Just curious, have you ever explicitly asked your T about their expectations of you in the therapy process? Do you feel like you just know? Did your T volunteer this stuff?

I had a weird moment last week when my T said something about thinking that I was doing *better* (since I started therapy 6 months ago).

Um, no. Not really. In fact, I find therapy very destabilizing, and wonder if I should forget about it. I was doing pretty great without therapy, and since restarting, feel like things have gotten worse, including SI (actual and urges). When I was not in therapy, I had stopped SI altogether - it just wasn't an issue. Something about the stress of therapy and getting all the icky crap in my head stirred up just... pushes me more than I can handle, I guess.

Therapy also makes me feel more confused, more unstable, more incompetent to deal with stuff. It just feels like getting sucked into an underwater vortex where suddenly I can no longer feel up from down, or see anything clearly, or breathe. It's disorienting.

Ahem, but aside from that I realize he probably doesn't have much of an idea of what things I'm struggling with, or the SI issues. I wrote about it once, but didn't really talk about how much of a problem it is in the present. And, I don't know if I should. It would be helpful to know what the "ground rules" are for therapy... like am I expected to go in and confess when I do that? What if it's not a priority, to me, to work on that? I feel like just going in and saying, "hey, look what I did!" isn't productive if I'm not in a place where I want to focus on working on it, it just seems like... teasing and hurtful, a little.

Ugh! Do you know what's expected of you, beyond showing up and paying?!?

Reads like the title should be "what do I want from therapy for me". I wonder if these reactions and behaviors are due to not finding the relief or outlet you need or want because you are hiding so much. My psychologist and psychiatrist both told me early on that the more open and honest I was the greater the chance that I would find relief. I wish you the best.

My psychologist wants me to work on me in whatever way I feel is beneficial. There are no expectations from her only encouragement to find my own way.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T does have expectations of me, but I don't feel they're unreasonable or unfair.

* She expects honesty and openness (but I expect the same of her).
* She expects me to reach out for help when I need it.
* She expects me to be up front about SI and SUI thoughts.
* She expects me to give 100% effort (btw, that definition fluctuates on circumstances).
* She expects me to alway show up (but that is more based on the type of person I am, not an actual requirement).
* She expects me to not push her away.
* She expects me to respect her and her boundaries.

That's about it. I don't pay her, my insurance does. And I would do these things whether or not it was an expectation...which is why she now expects it of me. It's just who I am.

Originally Posted by guilloche

[Possible trigger: Mention of SI.]

Just curious, have you ever explicitly asked your T about their expectations of you in the therapy process? Do you feel like you just know? Did your T volunteer this stuff?

.......It would be helpful to know what the "ground rules" are for therapy...

I have never asked what my therapist's expectations are because I don't expect her to have any of me. I have them for myself, to make the most of the time I'm there by being as honest as I would if I were in the ER. I don't need to tell every random thing, but if it's relevant to my symptoms, I bring it up so I can do something about it. It sounds like you've got symptoms that would be very helpful to mention and address. I hope you can find a way to do that.

As for the ground rules, I've never had a therapist who had any. (And none of that talk about a therapist's boundaries that I see from others here on PC.) My current therapist asked me what I was looking for from her, what I wanted from therapy and that if I wanted to do X Y or Z to let her know. I didn't have an answer to the last one, but it's not necessary to have an answer. We figure it out as we go along.

Bottom line: You are in the driver's seat. Don't be shy about taking your sessions where you need to go.

Originally Posted by lolagrace

I don't think of my therapy as doing what is expected of me by anyone other than myself.

Here's what I expect of myself and my own therapy:

1. Commit to being honest and open with my therapist no matter how hard that is. He can't help me if I'm hiding from him (and ultimately myself).

2. Commit to doing the hard work of applying what I am learning about myself to life outside the four walls of T's office. It does no good to just give lip service to what I'm talking about in the safety of his office. I'm in therapy to improve my real life the other 6 days and 23 hours a week.

3. Commit to not giving up when I backslide. Forgive myself for being human and not always getting it right. I can keep working on it until it finally becomes second nature, even if that takes a long time and many replays to get there.

4. Commit to finding my life within myself. T can be my sounding board. T can be my support. T can help me learn more about myself and learn skills to manage. But only I can really find myself and my life. No one can do that for me.

5. Commit to slowing down and making conscious healthy choices about how I live, how I react, and how I behave. I have choices and that is empowering.

This is great!!! As I read your list I realize that I have very similar expectations of myself in my therapy process. I would just add, I am committed to the process itself even when it is very difficult and I feel like quitting - believing that I am worth all the hard work. This is awesome.

I've found d this to be a thought provoking thread, I've liked what people have said about being in the driving seat and thinking about what we are looking for from therapy.

[archipelago]

I agree with others who have the sense that they wouldn't want to be in therapy with someone who had expectations of them. Therapists hold hope alive, and that may mean that there are some things they would like to see, but that isn't quite the same as having an expectation.

They aren't really supposed to have expectations, even minimal ones, because that is about them and their needs and agenda, not about you, your needs, and your own agency in finding your way through and onto something that is more workable.

I find that it is my expectations both of therapy and myself that are the things I need to focus on. They have gotten in the way instead of guiding me. Sometimes they have been unrealistic, or harsh on myself, or idealizing of the therapist. These are common pitfalls as we work in this type of odd environment but still it is actually letting go of expectations that has been more the challenge and work.

Once I took a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course and the teacher said something that I will never forget: "Be careful about the subtle aggressions of self-improvement."

We do want change, which is a good thing, but it can also turn into a way of not accepting what is really the case and/or denying the now for a future oriented curative fantasy. Both can be ways in which we are "mean" to ourselves instead of having self-compassion, which may be even harder than compassion for others.

[Ad Intra]

She really encouraged me to go to grad school; she acted like it was a definite.

[Creamsickle]

Expectations from my T?? I never heard of them having expectations of the client and I hope mine doesn't. I couldn't take the pressure.

Paraphrase of a dialogue we had some months ago:
Mast: I know the only thing I have to do is show up here, and talk.
T: As a matter of fact, the only requirement is that you show up.

So that seems to be the only expectation he has. However, since we have worked together for two and a half years, twice a week, I think he probably expects things from me based on what he knows about me. I know that he assumes that I'm being honest, or as honest as I am capable of being; I might misremember things, but I won't knowingly lie to him, and I might leave things out of my stories, but I'll always tell him when I do that.

Originally Posted by archipelago

I agree with others who have the sense that they wouldn't want to be in therapy with someone who had expectations of them. Therapists hold hope alive, and that may mean that there are some things they would like to see, but that isn't quite the same as having an expectation.

They aren't really supposed to have expectations, even minimal ones, because that is about them and their needs and agenda, not about you, your needs, and your own agency in finding your way through and onto something that is more workable.

I find that it is my expectations both of therapy and myself that are the things I need to focus on. They have gotten in the way instead of guiding me. Sometimes they have been unrealistic, or harsh on myself, or idealizing of the therapist. These are common pitfalls as we work in this type of odd environment but still it is actually letting go of expectations that has been more the challenge and work.

Once I took a Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction course and the teacher said something that I will never forget: "Be careful about the subtle aggressions of self-improvement."

We do want change, which is a good thing, but it can also turn into a way of not accepting what is really the case and/or denying the now for a future oriented curative fantasy. Both can be ways in which we are "mean" to ourselves instead of having self-compassion, which may be even harder than compassion for others.

I like the thing your teacher said.

[guilloche]

Thanks, everyone. But, I have to admit that I'm a bit confused. Surely Ts have some expectations - maybe not super strict, maybe not rules, but... you know, things they take for granted that we're doing or saying, and that they would be surprised to find out that we weren't.

So, for example, I do know one expectation. My T wants me to tell him when he does something that makes me uncomfortable. He understands that I usually can't do that "in real time" (when it's happening), but wants me to try to bring it up as soon as possible afterwards. Knowing that he expects this, it's been easier for me to do it. I don't think he'd be angry if I didn't, but... I think he might be surprised, because we've talked about this and he's shown that he's OK with me bringing up things.

I also know that he expects me to not just disappear... to do a termination session. I've been seeing him for around six months, so I think that at this point, that's a fair request. Obviously, that's not something I'd do if I'd only seen him for 1 or 2 sessions, but at this point, there's enough of a relationship that I feel like it would be disrespectful to not do that.

With the SI stuff... I don't really know. I don't know if he'd be surprised to find out that I had done it, and not talked about it... even if it's not an expectation in the sense of a "rule", it might be an expectation in the sense of... it would surprise him, because he assumed that I knew that that was something that's important to come and talk about?

I just don't know?

Striking said... "Reads like the title should be "what do I want from therapy for me". I wonder if these reactions and behaviors are due to not finding the relief or outlet you need or want because you are hiding so much."

Ooh. Thanks. Yeah, I'm struggling with whether I want/need to be in therapy, what I can get out of it, especially given that therapy generally destabilizes me and makes me feel worse about my life. I wonder if trying to go back to therapy was an expensive mistake. I'm working on the "hiding" part - I've talked to T about this (just at the last session even!) and have told him pretty much all my stuff (slowly, trickled out over the months). This is the first T that I've told all this too. And that's great. But I'm still not sure it's going to help anything.

Basically... previously I was in therapy. It was awful, I fell apart, I was a depressed, miserable, awful mess that cried all the time, SI-ed, and couldn't cope. I left therapy, and got better. Stabilized, stopped the SI, and considerably cut down on the crying. I'm afraid that being back in therapy is pulling me back into all the crappy emotional stuff, and that I *function* better when I don't have to deal with it, even if it makes me not as fully "human", maybe.

*thanks*

[precaryous]

My T says on my worst days, all she wants me to do is show up. I don't have to talk unless I want to.

She also said that we should agree if we are doing something that bothers the other, we should bring it up and talk about it.

[pmbm]

I think that my therapist has a couple of expectations of me that make a whole lot of sense. She expects me to tell her when something is not working for me and to tell her if something is working well for me. That's it. I have expectations of her. I expect my T to tell me why she is doing something if I ask. I also expect her to not do Checklist Therapy with me. I expect myself to show up the best I can for therapy. I expect myself to try what she suggests at least once. I also expect myself to do the homework she gives me and to work as hard as i can in therapy so that I can make the progress and do the healing I want to do.

[striking]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks, everyone. But, I have to admit that I'm a bit confused. Surely Ts have some expectations - maybe not super strict, maybe not rules, but... you know, things they take for granted that we're doing or saying, and that they would be surprised to find out that we weren't.

So, for example, I do know one expectation. My T wants me to tell him when he does something that makes me uncomfortable. He understands that I usually can't do that "in real time" (when it's happening), but wants me to try to bring it up as soon as possible afterwards. Knowing that he expects this, it's been easier for me to do it. I don't think he'd be angry if I didn't, but... I think he might be surprised, because we've talked about this and he's shown that he's OK with me bringing up things.

I also know that he expects me to not just disappear... to do a termination session. I've been seeing him for around six months, so I think that at this point, that's a fair request. Obviously, that's not something I'd do if I'd only seen him for 1 or 2 sessions, but at this point, there's enough of a relationship that I feel like it would be disrespectful to not do that.

With the SI stuff... I don't really know. I don't know if he'd be surprised to find out that I had done it, and not talked about it... even if it's not an expectation in the sense of a "rule", it might be an expectation in the sense of... it would surprise him, because he assumed that I knew that that was something that's important to come and talk about?

I just don't know?

Striking said... "Reads like the title should be "what do I want from therapy for me". I wonder if these reactions and behaviors are due to not finding the relief or outlet you need or want because you are hiding so much."

Ooh. Thanks. Yeah, I'm struggling with whether I want/need to be in therapy, what I can get out of it, especially given that therapy generally destabilizes me and makes me feel worse about my life. I wonder if trying to go back to therapy was an expensive mistake. I'm working on the "hiding" part - I've talked to T about this (just at the last session even!) and have told him pretty much all my stuff (slowly, trickled out over the months). This is the first T that I've told all this too. And that's great. But I'm still not sure it's going to help anything.

Basically... previously I was in therapy. It was awful, I fell apart, I was a depressed, miserable, awful mess that cried all the time, SI-ed, and couldn't cope. I left therapy, and got better. Stabilized, stopped the SI, and considerably cut down on the crying. I'm afraid that being back in therapy is pulling me back into all the crappy emotional stuff, and that I *function* better when I don't have to deal with it, even if it makes me not as fully "human", maybe.

*thanks*

The rabbit hole of emotions is difficult to travel through even when I think I am ready. If you are uncertain or resistant I imagine the emotional blowback would be as severe as you have experienced.

Hopefully opening up helped a little. Even if its not addressed right away its out in the open.

Maybe try working on an action plan during your next session? Take a clinical or 3rd person view so you externalize the process and minimize the emotional impact.

Easier for me sometimes when I work on certain issues that way.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Basically... previously I was in therapy. It was awful, I fell apart, I was a depressed, miserable, awful mess that cried all the time, SI-ed, and couldn't cope. I left therapy, and got better. Stabilized, stopped the SI, and considerably cut down on the crying. I'm afraid that being back in therapy is pulling me back into all the crappy emotional stuff, and that I *function* better when I don't have to deal with it, even if it makes me not as fully "human", maybe.

Hmm. Just curious, why did you go back to therapy?

When I locked myself in the house for 6 years, I was sort of functioning. I wasn't an emotional mess. I didn't even SI. Yeah, not stepping outside the house at all was a problem, but I was emotionally stable. But I realized I wasn't living my life. I, in a sense, stopped living. Once I stepped outside my house, reality came crashing down on me. I couldn't survive on my own, so I decided to go back to therapy. I'm now living my life...slowly... and it's difficult. There's the unknown and pain and frustration. There's people who can care and love me, but who can also hurt me or abandon me. I am overwhelmed by all the feelings and thoughts. I had several SI relapses. Sometimes I think that it would be better to lock myself up again. But that wasn't helping me either.

I guess this sums up my perspective: "Seek the truth or bury your head in the sand. Both require digging." Andrew Nolan

As far as the expectation to tell your T about the SI: are you feeling guilt because you haven't told him? Why is it you haven't told him? Is it shame? Fear? Not wanting to give it up yet?

I haven't SI'ed in 6 months? (I don't keep track) The desire is still there. I tell my T when I have the thoughts of SI or even SUI. It is an expectation that I tell her. For good reason: it allows her to know where I'm at emotionally. We just talk about it: what's causing them, the details, why I want to follow through, why I don't. And then she reminds me of my coping skills.

Maybe if you tell your T about the SI, he can help you work on it so that you don't feel like you need it in order to cope with therapy? Maybe instead of him having expectations of you, you have expectations of yourself? Or maybe you want expectations in order to keep yourself accountable?

If I'm wrong about any of this ignore me

I believe they do have expectations of us. It would be different for each client, but it doesn't make sense for them to not expect us to do anything. They can terminate a client if they feel they aren't helping that client. Don't you think they expect us to change eventually? They might not express this, but surely they don't want someone to just keep coming to see them on and on and never get well.

Originally Posted by puzzle_bug1987

I believe they do have expectations of us. It would be different for each client, but it doesn't make sense for them to not expect us to do anything. They can terminate a client if they feel they aren't helping that client. Don't you think they expect us to change eventually? They might not express this, but surely they don't want someone to just keep coming to see them on and on and never get well.

Yes, I do think therapists look to see improvement and healing in their clients, and if how they are working with us isn't fostering that kind of healing, they might recommend we find a different therapist, a different type of therapy, etc., but you are tying that to an idea that the client has somehow done something wrong when actually those kinds of recommendations usually are because the therapist realizes what they are doing isn't working for the client, or that there is a mismatch between them, their modality of therapy, and the client's needs. That's a bit different than this discussion of "expectations".

Both my T and my pdoc suggested I might need to see someone else at one point when things seemed to be going the wrong direction. They didn't do that because I wasn't meeting their "expectation"; they did that because they felt their treatment was coming up short for me and they wanted me to get the right help. I stayed with my therapist, and my pdoc sent me for further testing and a 2nd opinion to be sure he was on the right track. It wasn't about me coming up short; it was about them wanting to be sure I was receiving the right assistance.

I'm so confused about therapy. Honestly, I think if someone has the means to pay for it they should be able to go for whatever reason even if they just want to sit there with someone and be with someone. But it doesn't seem to really work that way for most of us.

I don't know. It's very confusing to me.

[stopdog]

I think a client can be insistent that is what is useful for them and find a therapist who will not object. I think a lot of therapists have issues with wanting to rescue or see a client who will change in the way the therapist wants - and that is a problem in my opinion. It is not for the therapist to decide. The therapist does not have a stake in my life.

What if a therapist tells a client he won't see them anymore unless the client does a certain thing?

Some of you might know the my ex-therapist told me to bring my husband in to meet with him or the therapist wouldn't see me anymore. I said no and he refused to see me again. This was not something we had EVER discussed. Is an expectation like that fair to a client? (I know I'm ruminating, but it is a grieving process like someone else said on another thread.)