Therapists do more harm than good

P.S. You asked earlier about determining research credibility- we need to consider when looking at source credibility, a related topic, that Allen is selling a book for profit about his new beliefs, and that he lost out on the profits he made in DSM-IV when he was cut out of the DSM-V process, no more royalties.I do not know what he earned in royalties, he said it was $10,000, not sure what the actual income was nor the profits from his highly publicized book. Just a side note.

Every treatment has unintended side effects, but it's worth exploring whether the unintended side effects of psychotherapy leave one better off than purely targeting mental health with drugs.

Therapy has its problems -- I'm a frequent commenter on these boards about how therapist ineptitude hurt me.

But, I'm glad that psychotherapy exists as a discipline, and I believe it excels the best when it looks at a person's holistic health, favoring treating the mind-body-organism as a whole, rather than targeting specific problems with prescription drugs.

The value of psychotherapy is having a personal cheerleader and a listener and (for me) someone who understands how trauma affects the brain.

Further ....

(I AM NOT TRYING TO MINIMIZE ANYONE'S EXPERIENCE, MERELY SHARING MY OWN ....)

I was able to throw off deep, deep, suicidal depression without prescription medication. My solution was weekly psychotherapy, daily exercise, life-style changes to maximize sleep, acupuncture, and a naturopathic doctor who advised me to eat more protein and fats, such as butter.

Granted, it was a lot of work and took more than a year to accomplish, and three working professionals (psychotherapist, naturopath-doc, acupuncturist) but my brain functioning and peaceful attitude is the best it has ever been. No drugs, no big pharma.

In my view, psychotherapy has a place. It shouldn't be overstated but it shouldn't be so easily dismissed.

Right. That's exactly what I was saying re: attachment. I think it's this dynamic that leads to lot of the disconnect when people talk about therapy. Those who have not experienced this tend to say things like "why didnt you just stop" or "get over it" or "how could you become dependent on a therapist".

What is particularly dangerous is when the T does suck but the C is responding to their attunement and mirroring. You can become dependent on an abusive or incompetent caretaker. It happened to me. I still feel like an addict wanting my fix again, have tried for months to get it back, even though my rational brain knows ex T made a mess of it.

Thanks, interesting yes. Seems like classic example of biological psychiatry (drugs) vs psychological psychiatry (therapy). I'd take the latter any day if I had to choose, but there is something of a false dichotomy in his argument, as if you have to choose one or the other. Still, a pretty honest article.

And then there is the issue, seemingly entirely absent from all schools of therapy and psychiatry, of real biological factors in mental illness such as endocrine problems, systemic parasites, chronic infectious disease like Lyme disease, heavy metal toxicity and more. I have never met a therapist who has inquired into my physical health status. I happened to have been diagnosed with all of the issues I mention, and Lyme disease in particular is known to have potential for major psychological impacts. Drug-based psychiatry and therapy have nothing in their arsenals for this and do not even know to look for it.

BTW, this is a powerful statement:
"Treatments that follow from this simplistic, mechanistic, and reductionist notion have been to act directly on the brain, always with violating and destructive outcomes."

I mean the whole discussion about the DSM is a tangent. I am willing to concede that Allen may have conflicts of interest that make his statements questionable and that he has said things in support of psychiatry and drugs as well as in opposition. But again, the fact that such a central figure said such things about the DSM publicly ought to tell you something.

Wow you must have access to quite a compelling set of data to make such a statement. I didnt say anything at all about therapy being bad or good on the whole. I don't have enough info to attempt that.

I don't think science has much or anything to do with therapy or drug-based psychiatry. Especially the latter.

That's fair. But above you said something similar, in the opposite direction.

I do agree that fostering dependence in clients probably does more harm than good in many clients. Ts should know more than they do about child and human development across the lifespan (one class doesn't cut it, in my opinion). Attachment issues are very complicated and Ts don't often fully comprehend the depth of the distress people feel when faced with loss. That's why I don't always think talk therapy is terribly helpful to some people with attachment issues because of the intimate nature of it. The inability to compartmentalize the therapeutic relationship creates a lot of confusion and opens people up for so much pain. I think his is why I've always leaned toward CBT and DBT- the less intimate nature of it eliminate some of that risk. There is often still a relationship but it is very well defined with concrete boundaries. Therapists who become the equivalent of a paid friend or a person's only support system are dangerous. I don't think these Ts are well versed in attachment issues and what they can look like if they aren't treated in childhood. They are also somewhat self serving and not even remotely aware of the consequences of their actions.

I agree. My harmful dynamic was not so much attachment as the therapists playing roles as omniscient shamans.

I was trying to help a friend with some severe depression and felt that someone professional was needed so I pushed my friend to see someone. I think it was the worst mistake I could have ever made. It hasn't seemed to help. In fact it just seems worse and I feel like I have the weight of the world on my shoulders because I know I can't help enough.

Thanks Mistysea. I think she gets it partly. But to acknowledge it fully would mean admitting a whole range of distressing and incriminating things about herself and about therapy. A bit of denial and a bit of self-protection.

Maybe this is one of the great dangers of therapy -- when things go badly or rupture, seems the T often seeks to protect their livelihood and the profession by getting the client to shoulder the burden of responsibility.

I do think ultimately the therapists will protect themselves by blaming the client for the damage. I think it's mostly all about money. It's understandable because it's their livelihood. It's just too bad how emotionally harmful it can end up being. Where are the "studies" on the bad therapy? It's sad to go to someone and believe they will be there and help you through whatever issues you have and then end up worse off through no fault of your own.

This is interesting as many clients, including myself seek therapy partly because of attachment issues. As you say, to some people their T become a very important person and when one loses it, it´s like losing a relative or even worse sometimes.

If therapy isn´t that helpful, what to do instead? I´ve read several books about T:s who describe therapy with several of their clients and how they act out, yell and so on. In those books, the T:s who all works within PDT stay understanding and compassionate and they don´t get defensive when their clients act out. In almost every case their clients have had attachment issues.

But those cases seem quite rare, that´s why I say T:s often do more harm than good, because they act like they have a private relation with clients who they can "get back at".