[withit]

Here's an exerpt from today's journal....inspired by mouse's Abott and Costello post...though very different.....this is not meant in jest....I actually wrote it into my journal and then thought it might be a good idea to post here, to see if others have had similar experience.

This is my fair warning to those who are easily triggered.....
This interaction is totally fictitious, inspired by parts of my therapy session today. I was talking to t about my need to talk about very deep and intense feelings at times. And would she be able to help me explore them instead of shutting me up, as my previous t did. We talked about it until I felt ok with her response.

Here's how I do NOT want it to go:
Me: I feel like killing myself (notice I said, I feel like, not that I am going to...)
T: You're not yourself. I want you to go see a psychiatrist.

Versus:
Me: I feel like killing myself.
T: You don't sound too good. Tell me about it.
Me: I just can't take it anymore! I'm gonna take them pills tonight and be dead in the morning.
T: It hurts that much to be alive?
Me: Yes, the pain is so unbearable i don't know what else to do other than kill myself. Then all the pain will be gone. For good.
T: Can you talk some more about the pain. What's the pain about?
Me: I hate myself! I'm so BAD! It hurts to be so bad!
T: (softly) Is there anything I can do to help?
Me: (touched by her availability, i begin to sob)

T's willingness to be present as I talk about the pain, helps to reduce the level of pain. I leave the office feeling lighter.

Frankly, I'm not sure I'm ready to hear any critical responses. I think to delete this post, but I have a feeling that others can relate, so......click....

hey. yes indeed i can relate. sometimes what we need is to have our feelings heard and acknowledged and validated.

instead of being written off as a neurophysiological abnormality or a logical error to be challenged.

(((((withit)))))

can you take little risks with little self disclosures and assess how t responds?

[withit]

yeah, I've taken one small risk right here right now and Alexandra, hey, you really got it! That we need to have our feelings heard and acknowledged and not written off as.......

Thanks for the hugs too! Virtual hugs can't be unsafe, can they?

[SecretGarden]

Availability and willingness to be there in the moment with me is incredibly powerful and caring and cathartic.

So what happened today that inspired this?

The first response would make me feel cut off and not totally seen as an individual but just a psyche amuck.

Hope you are feeling better than this as I know that really is difficult.

Take care.

hey. i'm sorry you are feeling so much pain :-( pain sucks. i feel it a lot too. it is understandable. i firmly believe that. stimulus that breaks through the stimulus barrier (exceeds our ability to cope) IS jolly painful. and it sucks. it really really sucks. i have been feeling a lot of pain over the last few weeks. feelin a little better now. but it isn't so very hard for me to get in touch with the pain.

do you ever feel (emotionally) held by your therapist? it is jolly hard... i had a lot of therapy that was focused on change change changing my distressing emotions. i have managed to take little risks with my therapist, though. talked to him a little about shame. then i felt it. i really felt it. and he kind of leaned forward in his seat and just sat there with me for probably 20 or 30 seconds. felt a lot longer than that... but could have been a lot shorter than that i guess. but the point is that he just sat there with me. and i could tell that like how i was letting myself feel it (instead of pushing it away / dissociating from it)... he was letting himself feel it too. he could have launched into why i felt ashamed and attempted to restructure my cognitions... he could have attempted to change the topic... but he didn't. he felt it too. and then... it felt more manageable somehow. like i didn't need to be afraid. 'cause he wouldn't have done that if it was unsafe.

i think that is the most healing thing in the world. its okay to have those feelings. its okay to feel those feelings. therapist isn't scared of them. therapist is willing to walk with us. it feels a bit safer. feels a bit more like my feelings aren't unacceptable and repulsive after all.

some people feel unsafe with virtual hugs. i'm sorry, i should have asked whether it was okay for me to do that. hugs only if it feels safe for you. k?

[withit]

SG, your response is heartwarming....

Thanks for the thought-provoking question of what happened today to inspire this....I don't know myself...I'm wondering...is it my anger at my previous t for not giving me what I wanted....and when I don't get what I wanted I infer I am bad....is it that I have been a no-good mum yesterday.....so I feel I am bad.....I'm not sure myself what is inspiring this feeling of I am bad....interestingly, with my previous t, this is the point where the rupture developed and we have not been able to repair it...so eventually I left....the rupture came about cuz she gave me the first kind of response and I wanted the second kind of response....or am I angry cuz t disclosed some personal info today?.....and somehow it evokes my rage?.....I'm so utterly confused about why I am feeling this way out of the blue....maybe this feeling is buried inside of me and only appears when I am in a trusting relationship, and since I haven't been in therapy for a while....now that I am....my deep-seated stuff is coming out.....????????

[SecretGarden]

yer percolating....

and if this is a new T...speaking to your fear of her being the same and hopes that number two will be like...well number two.

Keep thinking things through.... over the week it will begin to sort out if my experience is any indicator.

Sounds like you are ready for your deep-seated stuff to come out. That is good but sometimes the ride is tamultuous...Hang on... and take your T's temperature to see how she/he responds to your sharing the real you. Are you feeling comfortable?

On my first read I too felt like giving you a hug so I too will offer one if you would like one. I am good at comfort hugs.... really. :-)

Heading to bed... will check in tomorrow.

[withit]

Aw...you are so sweet, SG....

yer percolating...I like that....

G'nite.

[withit]

Another exerpt from today's journal:

With mn (her initials, fictitious of course) I get the sense, based on her responses to me, almost as if she’s saying, I’m not gonna be like your other t, I’m gonna save you, I’m gonna behave. When that’s not really what I need to hear. I need to just have my fears validated, my untrusting validated. Like if she would say something like I know it’s hard to trust after that…it’s understandable…take your time….when you’re ready….
I’m angry at me for trusting her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!alreaddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!so soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i need to let her EARN my trust!!!!!!!!!!!!!don’t give it away so soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lauren_helene]

Withit, I agree that we want to be heard by our T's and held emotionally and well physically too (I'll just admit it). We want to know that they will go wherever we take them.

What disturbs me (not with your post) but with others, some T's aren't willing to go wherever the client takes them. I like that you phrased your question this way to your T...very good!!

Did you end up okay with her response about helping you explore your deep thoughts? Or is there still a lingering thought about that?

> some T's aren't willing to go wherever the client takes them.

i really think it is more the case that some therapists aren't able.

[withit]

Almeda, good question you ask.....is there a lingering thought about it....yes there is....that even though her response satisfies me.....it doesn't change the inner 'template' that's been created in my experience with the other t......current t telling me she is willing to explore....doesn't remove the fear I have internalized with my other t.....hope I'm making myself clear here.....
Thanks all for your warm support! I thought I can count on you!

[lauren_helene]

Alex, you're right again! Some aren't able...

Withit, her reponse right now is words to you. You need to feel it and you won't feel it until you try with her and feel her response.

At least she knows that you will be going deep and you got some initial confirmation that she is willing. So let's see where it goes!

[withit]

Alex, just noticed your previous post....I guess we were posting at the same time...hey, you articulated it so well, I'm gonna ask t for this next time....''he could've launched into why i felt ashamed and attempted to restructure my cognitions....and then...it felt more manageable..." Awsome! Yes, that is exactly what I want from my t, when I say it's hard to trust....just sit with me and hear me....just let there be silence for a minute.....

acceptance.

one of my therapists terminated me. she said she was getting sick worrying worrying worrying about how to change me. i said 'maybe you don't need to change me, maybe you could just accept me'. she said 'i can't do that'.

i'm not sure what that was about. pressure from her supervisors to have documented progress no doubt. i don't think that was all there was to it, however. what did she mean she couldn't accept me? i think it was partly that she couldn't just sit there while i felt guilt or shame or fear or something without her trying to change that emotion. how come? because she couldn't tolerate the emotion. how is she going to teach me that emotions are tolerable if she can't tolerate my emotions? i have no earthly idea...

limitations. but her limitations, yeah.

i really think that people who are secure in their attachments (because they have had adequate positive experiences with an attachment figure) develop skills around emotion regulation and the like. they are able to regulate their emotions. and they are also... able to help regulate our emotions. not in an avoidant way (quick let me change it because i can't cope!) but they are able to feel it: to really really feel the intense negative emotion... and to regulate themselves (and the client) out of that gently... so gently... but only AFTER the feeling has been appropriately acknowledged and felt.

there aren't many clinicians with secure attachment (with ability to do that) methinks.

there is such a thing as 'earned secure attachment' where people come to develop secure attachments later in life even though they had insecure attachments as infants. but... that is fairly rare. most often people just seem to get stuck in repeating the cycle...

and i think that more therapists become therapists due to issues with 'rescuing' others (or themselves) than from the sublimation kind of altruism / beneficence... but still...

it wasn't your fault. thats what i meant to convey. the situation was really unfortunate with your past t but it wasn't your fault. it wasn't that you were unacceptable. it was that she had her own %#@&#! going on.

it hurts though. when the people who are supposed to help kind of play their part in repeating the cycle... i have had a lot of bad experiences with the health system. i transfer those onto my therapist too in the form of expectations that he will judge me or try and shame me or reject me or whatever. but to be fair i probably transfered those early experiences onto past clinicians too... projective identification... i had a role to play in eliciting that.

that being said... one needs to find a clinician who can help one break the cycle instead of falling into enabling a repetition compulsion kind of thing.

it is hard... oh so hard... little tiny baby steps then see what happens. gently does it.

[MissCharlotte]

(((Withit)))

The issue of trusting then not trusting our T's is such a tango. The mixed up feelings we have about this trust change constantly. One week we do, the next week we don't. I ahve experienced the same vacillation. When the doubt is strong, it makes going back the next week so difficult because then we have to trudge across the divide, yet again! Do you think the difficulty is in trusting ourselves or our T?

((Withit))I wish I had something to add but right now can't. I think its good you shared yourself honestly! Thank you!

[withit]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
sister said:
(((Withit)))

Do you think the difficulty is in trusting ourselves or our T?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Sister, could you elaborate on that? I like the ring of it, yet it would help if you could elaborate? How would trusting ourselves change things with t?